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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 09-13-2018, 9:34 AM
diddler diddler is offline
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Default Palmetto 18" barreled uppers on sale, worth it?

All,

I've had a stripped lower collecting dust in the safe for 15 years and at some point I'd like to build. I already have a stock M4gery, so I was hoping to build a nicer long barreled rifle to compliment it. A friend pointed out that Palmetto State Armory has some 18" barreled uppers on sale in the $280-$370 range and I wanted to get an opinion on whether they're in the realm of what I'm looking for, or if I should consider a different brand.

The three basic ones I'm considering:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165447683.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-18-rifle-length-223-wylde-1-7-nitride-15-lightweight-m-lok-upper-with-nickel-boron-bcg-ch-516447357.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516447357.html

They all look very similar. The first one has a set of MBUS included and 4150V Chrome Moly. The middle one has a 416R steel barrel, the last one has a Nickel Boron coated BCG and CH and 4150V Chome Moly. I don't have any experience comparing the barrel steel options.

None have a chrome lined barrel, there seems to be some lack of agreement on its value.

This rifle will only be used for target/bench shooting, and I really only have range access out to about 250 yards. Not really looking into uncommon cartridges (6.5, 6.8, Blackout, Valkyrie, etc).

So, what do you think? Should I be considering something else in this price range? They don't really have much in the way of 20" barreled uppers or heavy barrels, neither of which would I mind while shooting from a bench.

Thoughts?

Ryan
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Old 09-13-2018, 9:42 AM
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20 inch barrels here https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-1...el_length=1386

A stainless barrel will not have chrome lining anyway. It looks like they all have flash hiders so you will need to be able to replace it with a muzzle brake.
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Old 09-13-2018, 9:56 AM
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I have a 18" PSA 223 wylde SS upper with the nickel boron bcg. Topped it with a 4x12 vortex scope and have been able to average 1MOA groups at 100yrds with my 55gr plinker reloads. I'm sure I could get it down to sub-MOA with match ammo. Its a decent upper and spectacular for the price. You could buy or assemble a nicer sub-MOA gun for considerably more, but honestly, I don't see a huge performance difference between the $1000 White Oak upper and the $300 PSA upper.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by berg View Post
Good point, when I was sifting through I must have accidentally filtered them out. Given what's available on that page, I suppose I'd add the 20" 5.56 chambered upper to the list of possibilities:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...cg-and-ch.html

In the past I never really concerned myself with running 5.56 or .223 through my old Stag Arms (which I believe has a 5.56 chamber), am I really giving up much switching out an 18" barrel with a .223 Wylde chamber to the 20" with 5.56?

Last edited by diddler; 09-13-2018 at 10:27 AM.. Reason: Clarification
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  #5  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diddler View Post
Good point, when I was sifting through I must have accidentally filtered them out. Given what's available on that page, I suppose I'd add the 20" 5.56 chambered upper to the list of possibilities:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...cg-and-ch.html

In the past I never really concerned myself with running 5.56 or .223 through my old Stag Arms (which I believe has a 5.56 chamber), am I really giving up much switching out an 18" barrel with a .223 Wylde chamber to the 20" with 5.56?

A .223 Wylde chamber is going to give you a little better accuracy using .223 ammo than a 5.56 chamber. It allows for tighter tolerances and still allow the use of 5.56 ammo. Going from a 18" barrel to a 20" barrel will give you 60-100 fps more velocity. Which translates to less drop and windage over greater distances, but not much. I would take an inherently more accurate barrel over a longer barrel. Since you are not shooting out past 250yards, the extra barrel length doesn't have any advantage.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:12 AM
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Crazy amount of used uppers on sale right now from private sellers. Here or on arfcom you can find crazy deals.

I bought an upper from a CalGuns guy for less than $400 that was barely used, and had about $800 worth of top-grade parts on it (Geiselle rail, Ranier Match Barrel, Surefire warcomp, etc).
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  #7  
Old 09-13-2018, 2:12 PM
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I have 2 PSA uppers for my SCR. a 16 Dissy and a 24" Rifle.

The 16" was $210 and the 24" was a blem and cost me $270.

Since they're used on my SCR which uses a dedicated BCG I didn't need a BCG. They were stripped barreled uppers no charging handle either.

The 16" barrel is sub MOA with American Eagle generic ammo and the 24" is still be sussed out . Both are 1:7 twist.

These uppers are excellent quality and such a good value it is Ridiculous.

I see no reason to spend a ton of money for something you'll never really get your monies worth out of.

For 99% of shooters a $500 AR will perform as well as a $1600 AR. I would never consider spending that much on a gun that can't possibly show me it's value, when a less expensive gun will do the same thing.

The differences in AR's nowadays are so minor that 99% of the real differences are really only sales hype.

All AR parts are pretty much interchangeable now and are so well established in the market place that everyone is building essentially the same parts on different CNC machines where tolerances can be easily controlled with slightly different materials .

Just wait a few years til 3D printing gets more advanced. We are on the verge of the Full on "Replicator" from Star Trek and I just saw yesterday that Tesla is using 3D printers to make Titanium Car Parts! So they can 3D print titanium? That's some serious technology! and I bet it is a lot cheaper than machining Titanium which isn't easy in the first place.

I have a Bushmaster Carbon 15 AR. It has a steel barrel, bolt and FCG. The upper and lower receiver are Carbon Fiber. That same gun could have been 3D printed! As far as longevity,,, that gun has in excess of 5000 rounds thru it and still shoots to POA at 200 yards. Chrome Plated Bore? Yes!

To think it was Gaston Glock who figured out that you only need steel parts in certain places in a gun? He changed firearms manufacturing forever.

Most of us don't realize that it happened over 40 years ago!

BUt back to the question,,, PSA Good!

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 09-13-2018 at 2:38 PM..
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Old 09-13-2018, 2:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_gman View Post
I have a 18" PSA 223 wylde SS upper with the nickel boron bcg. Topped it with a 4x12 vortex scope and have been able to average 1MOA groups at 100yrds with my 55gr plinker reloads. I'm sure I could get it down to sub-MOA with match ammo. Its a decent upper and spectacular for the price. You could buy or assemble a nicer sub-MOA gun for considerably more, but honestly, I don't see a huge performance difference between the $1000 White Oak upper and the $300 PSA upper.
Yup, this is exactly my setup the PSA 18" 223 wylde 416R stainless and Vortex Crossfire II 12x. Im getting 1MOA sometimes less, with cheapo russian WPA steel cased ammo. I put a Failzero NiB BCG in it cause I got one that didnt come with the BCG+CH.

But personally Id just go with one of PSAs 16" uppers with a FF handguard. They got crazy deals on them now.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165448515.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165449556.html

I have a bunch of PSA uppers: 416R, melonite, nitride, phosphate, CHF CL. They all work great much more accurate than I am. Now I just choose based on price and extras like FF handguard and BUIS.

FWIW, the simple ChromeMolyVanadium barrels seem to be more accurate than chromelined. I dont even consider chrome lining in a 223 barrel anymore. Its meaningless to me, if the barrel is chrome lined thats cool, im not going to pay extra for it.
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Last edited by lightcav; 09-13-2018 at 2:32 PM..
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  #9  
Old 09-13-2018, 6:01 PM
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PSA AR15 uppers are great... and have drained much money from my savings account...

The FN barreled uppers are also well worth the added money.

IMHO, PSA products are a heck of a bargain.

Buy now, before the Anti-Gunners gain any influence...

I have PSA's in 9x19 16", .223 / 5.56 14.5", 16", 18", 20" and 24" 6.5CM 18" 20", and .308 18", 20".... all have been worth far more then the low price.
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Old 09-14-2018, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berg View Post
20 inch barrels here https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-1...el_length=1386

A stainless barrel will not have chrome lining anyway. It looks like they all have flash hiders so you will need to be able to replace it with a muzzle brake.
No reason for a muzzle brake. He's just going to target shoot. He's better off putting in a mag lock and leave features on, no need to suffer with a brake on the bench.
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Old 09-14-2018, 9:20 AM
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No reason for a muzzle brake. He's just going to target shoot. He's better off putting in a mag lock and leave features on, no need to suffer with a brake on the bench.
I tried the maglock and absolutely hated it. Featureless is the way to go. The muzzle brake only hurts for the people shooting next to you or standing near you, I really dont even notice it that much, maybe Im going deaf.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diddler View Post
am I really giving up much switching out an 18" barrel with a .223 Wylde chamber to the 20" with 5.56?
The 223 wylde will generally be a more accurate chamber than the 5.56.
You can shoot 5.56 ammo through a 223 wylde chamber.

Stainless barrels are generally more accurate than chrome lined barrels.

The best accuracy would usually come from a stainless barrel with a 223 wylde chamber.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:58 AM
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I wonder why all their Wylde chambered barrels are 1/7. Traditionally Wylde was always 1/8 - which I prefer.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:28 PM
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I wonder why all their Wylde chambered barrels are 1/7. Traditionally Wylde was always 1/8 - which I prefer.
Because people read forum posts that say you have to have a 1:7 twist or it's not meeting the milspec.
Slower twists are more accurate as long as the barrel has enough twist to stabilize the bullets you want to shoot.

People who only shoot 55gr bullets are best served with a 1:12 twist.
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Old 09-14-2018, 1:09 PM
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Because people read forum posts that say you have to have a 1:7 twist or it's not meeting the milspec.
"The List" days
It was like the Spanish Inquisition for the commercial AR industry. AR stuff has gotten much better since, but one can argue that there's a lot of other factors that can be attributed to.
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Old 09-14-2018, 1:14 PM
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I had a Delton with a standard 16" CMV 1:8 twist barrel that was plenty accurate. Also have a M16A1 replica with the Green Mountain 20" 1:12 twist pencil barrel that is very accurate. There may be a difference in accuracy between different combinations of twist and bullet weight but unless you are a competitive bench shooter using match grade ammo, you will probably never notice it.
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Old 09-14-2018, 2:09 PM
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diddler, I'd personally pick the third one you posted. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516447357.html

If you wanna nerd out on barrels InRangeTV has a great series of detailed interviews with Faxon about barrel dynamics and properties. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2X1iaQbjg8

BTW here's my PSA experience:
I also purchased a 20" PSA upper assembly with FSB and delta ring, it's stamped 5.56 1/7 CL MP. From my research I believe it's a Wilson Arms made barrel, although PSA has posted a statement that they have sold batches of FN barrels that were non-chrome hammer forged (CHF) that weren't FN stamped, so who knows. Honestly I don't really care.

Can't remember if it was 2011 or '12 when I ordered it, but it was on sale and a smoking deal at the time for $199 without BCG or handguard. I put it away for a couple of years before I even bore sighted it, when I did the sight was canted so much that my rear sight bottomed out. Being too late to return it, I knocked off the FSB and free floated the barrel.

Right now I think it's my current favorite setup to shoot. Mind you, I don't shoot it for tight groups, just steel plates at ASR out to 400 yards, unmagnified, using off-the-shelf brass cased 55 grain 5.56 and .223 ammo. Currently it's set up featureless with a BCM BCG, rifle buffer, irons sights co-witnessed with an Eotech, and an RRA 2 stage match trigger. It makes the 200 yard plates my beotch
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Old 09-14-2018, 2:20 PM
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Default 16" midlength FF handguard, BCG+CH, MBUS, and Magpul LPK for $350 shipped

You really cant beat this deal for $350 free shipping

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...3a00+pm+email#
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Last edited by lightcav; 09-14-2018 at 3:00 PM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 2:41 PM
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^^^ That is a screamin' deal!!! ^^^

Everything you need nothin' you don't!
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Old 09-14-2018, 3:03 PM
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^^^ That is a screamin' deal!!! ^^^

Everything you need nothin' you don't!
Yeah I really had to keep myself from buying one since I need another AR like a hole in the head. But I couldnt resist this Magpul LPK deal for $70 shipped
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165449542.html
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:15 PM
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You really cant beat this deal for $350 free shipping

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...3a00+pm+email#
If only it were 18".... itching for a longer barrel.
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Old 09-15-2018, 3:07 PM
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This my PSA 18" 223wylde featureless build
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Old 09-16-2018, 8:32 AM
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I took my new PSA build to the range to get it on some paper with irons and RD. The preliminary results of the groups suggests this rifle will be a good shooter. I am definatly not disappointed.
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