First priority of man is NOT to love God nor is it to glorify God...

[Wordupmybrotha]

Originally Posted by Icypu

I'm ignoring all the atheist, agnostic stuff to get on topic.



1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

• Jesus gave us grace and salvation, God gave us commandments that teach us how to love God and each other.
• The way you write it it seems your interested in a self reflective, passive worship or love of God within yourself.
• God expects us to proactively be a conduit, not a receiver of his love. So we transfer his love to our world, but first our family.

Here is an example of proactive love rather than receptive love.

Ecc 12:14
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Another example of proactivity is 1 Tim 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever

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You know what they say about assuming. Stick to the facts and leave out your assumptions about me. If you have questions, ask it directly and I'll answer.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Let me ask the opening post in a different way. Was God's primary purpose for creating man to love man or to be glorified by man?

[4aces]

Aren't natural men enemies of God? Are we born saved or condemned? Does God send sin to Hell or sinners? While God has a general love for his creation (he sends the rain on the just and the unjust). He has clearly and justly destroyed many men throughout history. To answer your question, I think we could say, we (believers/the church) were created to be a gift to the Son. My apologies if you thought my previous post was out of line. I'de like to hear what you think of the Westminster confession. maybe we can have more chats one day.

[Sailormilan2]

One idea that I have often heard, is that God is so full of love, so loving and kind, that He would NEVER hurt anyone. When bad things happen, God has withdrawn His love and protection, and allowed the Devil to do His work for Him. At the end times, God does not actively destroy the wicked, rather He withdraws His goodness and mercy, and they self destruct.
I find that concept very, very difficult to accept.

[WASR10]

Okay, I am finally able to sit down and give a proper response. I began by too quickly posting before, and then promised to get back. I am sorry it has taken me so long (Not that anyone holds any weight to anything I might post).

Originally Posted by Wordupmybrotha

Rather, the first priority of man is to be loved by God.

That was the Sunday message from our pastor. And supposedly, that's what Rick Warren had taught him.

This is the first time I heard this. My understanding is based on Matthew 22:37. Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

Or is it in the context of receiving God's grace? Accepting his gift comes before loving God, right?

Rev 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

In other words, we have to accept God's gift.

What do you say Calguns, is it biblical?

The initial post was to state that the first priority of man is to be loved by God. It then quotes Matthew 22:37, which is regarding man loving God and Revelation 3:20, which concerns man actively accepting the word of God. So, is it a priority of man to be loved by God? Depending on what is meant by ‘love,’ the answer could be yes or no. Scriptures describe God as loving man before they come to Him and regardless of their obedience.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” – John 3:16

“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” – Romans 5:8

“In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” – 1 John 4:10

“We love, because He first loved us.” – 1 John 4:19

In this context, the answer is no. But then there is a different kind of love as shown in other verses, where it may mistakenly seem as though God will not love unless we love Him first. Of course the verses above show that God already loves us. So in this instance, it refers to the actions taken in accordance to love.

“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” - John 14:21

We can see this shows that obedience is met with a closeness that cannot be received otherwise. The point is made a bit clearer in John 15:10

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”

This reference to ‘love’ should not be confused with the eternal love God has for His creation. There is an unconditional love that we already possess, then there is a closeness that comes from our obedience. In this context, the answer is yes.

The OP then asks does loving God come with accepting His gift, and whether we must accept the gift of God. It is unclear to me to what 'gift' the OP is referring. Is the OP referring to grace or salvation? I am unsure. My best answer, therefore, is that God’s love is there, whether we accept it or not. God’s grace is there, whether we accept it or not - making salvation possible. But salvation is something we must accept (I can expand on that if necessary).

Originally Posted by theLBC

pretty cool that you have met him! i have to agree with most of that.

is love equal to salvation?

I believe the answer is no.

is everlasting life assured for everyone, or must one earn it in some way?

I believe the answer to both is no.

is everyone taken into heaven, or only the chosen or faithful?

I believe the answer is no, not everyone but yes, the faithful.

perhaps your first priority is to be one of the chosen...to be loved by God.

I would say God’s affectionate love is not an option. It is there. A priority would be to be obedient, to love God in the way He has shown us.

“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” – John 14:15

“For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.” – 1 John 5:3

“And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.” – 2 John 6

Originally Posted by Wordupmybrotha

Let me ask the opening post in a different way. Was God's primary purpose for creating man to love man or to be glorified by man?

I don’t know if we can know this via scripture. We know that we were created and He desires a relationship with us. We know what we must do as His creation. Outside of that, I am not sure we can speculate.

“'I will dwell in them and walk among them; And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,' says the Lord. 'And do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you. And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,' Says the Lord Almighty” – 2 Corinthians 6:16-18

“But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.” – John 4:23

“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.” – 1 Peter 2:9-10

And finally on Rick Warren: I disagree with many aspects of his teachings on worship, church organization, church finance, salvation, end times scenarios… The list goes on.

Thanks for reading

[The War Wagon]

Originally Posted by Wordupmybrotha

Let me ask the opening post in a different way. Was God's primary purpose for creating man to love man or to be glorified by man?

Or WAS it to show the angels God's mercy - since all THEY'D seen was God's judgment, when he expelled Lucifer and the rebellious third of heaven, before the creation of the world!


I'd read a chapter in a Festschrift once, to that effect.

[Wordupmybrotha]

@WASR10 Thank you for taking the time to write. I agree with what you wrote.

@billvau Thank you for listening to his sermon and giving me feedback. With your prompting, I looked up the verses he quoted and they did not match what was written in the Bible. He paraphrased it incorrectly and then passed it off as if he was quoting scripture!

A stark realization to stay vigilant out there. Actually look up the verses yourself when the pastor quotes them.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Based on finding out that the pastor misquoted scripture, I am not going contemplate his message any further. I will stick with what I know from what the Bible explicitly states (as bunch of you already quoted), one of which is

Matthew 22:37-38 New International Version (NIV)
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

[WASR10]

Originally Posted by Wordupmybrotha

@WASR10 Thank you for taking the time to write...

Thanks for the opportunity!

[Doheny]

Originally Posted by The War Wagon

Not a Lutheran, eh? Permit me to enlighten you.


https://steadfastlutherans.org/page/...warren&x=0&y=0


https://steadfastlutherans.org/2014/...-how-bout-you/


https://steadfastlutherans.org/2014/...t-hurt-anyone/


https://steadfastlutherans.org/2012/...-transferable/


https://steadfastlutherans.org/2012/...ergent-church/


https://steadfastlutherans.org/2012/...owth-movement/


Other than Warren's syncretistic, unionistic, relativistic approach to the Word of God (all of which the scriptures REJECT), his books would make a fine model for how to run a Fortune500 company, which the church is not. Just remove the "theo-speak" (because he only mentions "God" in the generic, and never in the specific - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), and VOILA - you're on your way to fortune & fame! JUST like Jesus showed us!

Saddleback (Warren’s churchy) “What We Believe” statement clearly mentions God and the Trinity.

About God
God is the creator and ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.

https://saddleback.com/visit/about/what-we-believe

Re the OP, I’d have to hear the context and if Warren actually believes that.



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