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#81
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Wow, that is truly hilarious!!! So in this one instance one would want to use the product discussed here...
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/ Last edited by Liberty1; 11-08-2009 at 7:58 PM.. |
#82
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I'm pretty sure it's an "Irwinism."
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#84
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When I saw this little device, I did'nt even think legality. What immediately popped in my little brain was why would I pay $25 for a tiny device to worry about and something I can easily lose when a bullet is good enough. I told the dude so and the funny thing was he agreed with me.
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Pinoy Bwana |
#85
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That's some mighty fine trout-swingin'! Here's hoping it connected. |
#87
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This has been going on a long time.
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#88
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Seems like it'd be a useful product if you switch between .223 and .22LR or if you're gonna go shoot w/ some buddies in AZ (or any other free state). Or as an emergency conversion to a detachable mag rifle if your neighborhood somehow filled up with zombies and you didn't have time to assemble the AR properly.
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#89
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Makes me wonder how many have already been sold to people who don't know thay are committing a felony when they atttach this thing. And go their merry way not knowing they could lose their guns and their right to own one forever, and their freedom in the bargain. |
#90
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I've already run across a couple of these in our store. Customers have been saying "oh, can you get me that new magnet tool." I've done my best to educate them, but one of them was convinced that it was still a "tool".
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#91
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I talked to the guy selling them at the Ventura show and immediately told him it was illegal to attach to a featured build. He agreed but inferred that people were doing things like unscrewing their P-50 and that his product would make it easy to bypass the bullet button. He seemed to think that as long as nobody knew about it, it would be OK. A guy next to me overheard this and bought one on the spot. I walked away at that point.....
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Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#92
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What is worrying me is that I've now repeatedly heard these have been shipped to *vendors* to equip rifles with, and I need to speak to some of the names mentioned before. What will be really worrisome is when outta state vendors start shipping OLLs with this item into CA, thinking they're compliant.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#93
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Good news: while the Cow Palace booth vendor said "JD machine" and "Kaiser" were buying these felony-in-a-baggie, I have contacted both of these fine vendors and they all agreed this device was a severe issue and that they'd never ship such an item with their product.
So one more notch on the credibility peg for the folks selling the AR MagMagnet. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF ANYONE SEEING SALES OF THE "AR MAG MAGNET" TALKS TO THOSE POOR BUYERS, AND REFERS THEM TO CALGUNS.NET. PLEASE TELL THEM THE DEVICE "IS NOT A TOOL" and it TRIGGERS AW STATUS WHEN USED ON A BulletButton'd CENTERFIRE RIFLE WITH FEATURES.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#94
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Right on Bill!
- I need to also remind people that the mere act of attaching this to a centerfire BB-equipped rifle in CA is an INSTANT FELONY. Let's start calling these things FELONY BUTTONS from here on out to remind people of what they really have. |
#95
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This is totally irresponsible on the part of the manufacturer/vendor of this Felony Button.
It is clear that it serves no purpose because it is just as illegal as having a standard mag release. Demonstrated on a featureless build, clear confirmation that the vendor knows this is a violation to put on a gun with a BB. |
#96
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Just FYI - UCLAplinker and I, plus several other people on here were throwing ideas around about magnetic actuators a few months ago in a thread some may have seen, for clarifications sake I have no affiliation with this product, and I doubt they do either.
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#97
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I own tools with magnetic tips, I'm sure many of you own magnetic bit holders or screwdrivers. Having a magnetic tip doesn't mean it's still not a tool.
It is a very bad idea for gun rights and this fool will get somebody in deep doodoo......along with the inevitable bad press........"COLLEGE STUDENT MANUFACTURES ASSAULT RIFLE FROM GUN SHOW PARTS" You can already use a Wonder Wrench and back out your Free Lock for times when you don't need a mag lock. Bill I'm glad you had at him.....it sounds like he's as likely to listen to rational arguments as Zellany......One more step backwards for gun rights......
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"A generation which ignores history has no past — and no future." - Robert A Heinlein. |
#98
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http://www.riflegear.com/p-489-bulle...on-wrench.aspx ...and you might get a little more respect. Read the product description. It's clear that this is for out-of-state use only. That being said I have one of these- ironically the only time I have traveled out of state since getting one (I'm in AZ right now) I only took my featureless build and took off the MMG when I got to AZ. Here's the two problems I see with your situation: 1. You are creating a product for a VERY small niche of customers attempting to fill a need that's already filled by at least two other manufacturers. 2. You are selling the products without being extremely clear regarding it's legalities. I can't help you solve number one, but here's what I suggest to overcome number two: Put a HUGE disclaimer on your site and your packaging that the use of this product within the state of California is most likely a felony. Make that the most prominent part of your packaging- bigger than the product name and description. Really, though (and I swear I'm not trying to be mean) I wouldn't invest any more time, money, or effort into marketing this product. If you really sell it the honest way then you're catering to such a small customer base there's no way you could profit by any reasonable means.
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#99
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Has the CGF encountered these felony-buttons in any recent OLL cases (and thus, not able to defend the case)?
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The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing. |
#100
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It's already tedious enough, with the BB being the thin line between legal and "assault weapon" (I really hate that term, last time I was assaulted, the perp was using a pair of pliers). Anyone that knows how to turn a screwdriver can manufacture an assault rifle from gunshow parts. Any halfway decent machinist can make an FAR from sporting goods store parts.... but normally, those both require intent. When people manufacture an illegal weapon out of ignorance, there SHOULD be a legal blowback on the supplier for not providing full disclosure. Same for the Mini-14 folding stocks, and other bolt-on "evil features" that can convert a Springfield .30-06 hunting rifle into a "UAW".
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- Rich |
#101
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i think they're too new just yet... but if folks keep buyin 'em, without being warned, you can bet it's gonna happen.
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Live between Santa Cruz and SLO? Want to get involved? Check out the Central Coast Calguns Community Chapter And join the Central Coast Region Social Group! NRA Life Member - CRPA Life
Statements posted here are the sole opinions of the author and not those of CGN, CGF, CRPA, or any other institution or agency unless otherwise noted. |
#102
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Easy way for them to make people fearful of OLLs, swooping in with search warrants about "Assault Weapons" using the information from the sales guy to generate probable cause. |
#103
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That's probably a stretch. I just think he doesn't realize how risky these are.
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#104
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He realized it enough to use a featureless rifle when he was hawking these things at the gun show. |
#106
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Many people are just plain ignorant and will just assume that because they were selling them that they can use them and not take the time to understand the law. Still others thinks LEOs only go after "criminals" and they have nothing to worry about. Reminds me of a guy with an unregistered assault weapon. He told me he is not a criminal and he bought it legally in the 80s and he never heard anything about registration. I really hope the old guy doesn't get pulled over. He would most likely tell the cop he does have a gun and yes you can see it cause I have nothing to hide. These things are going to get someone a felony. |
#107
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I think that is what bothers me the most about this guy and his product. He obviously knows that it is a felony-maker, and he isn't making that clear to the people who are buying it. Until after they've bought it, IF they read his disclaimer in the package. |
#108
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"Oh, there's that legal mumbo jumbo... oh, I see how this works..." And the package goes in the trash.
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- Rich |
#109
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What I don't get is, why on earth would people buy these for $25 when you can get one of these for 6$:
http://riflegear.com/p-489-bullet-button-wrench.aspx
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#110
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Uneducated newbs. i.e. - the same people who tend to get busted.
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#111
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Live between Santa Cruz and SLO? Want to get involved? Check out the Central Coast Calguns Community Chapter And join the Central Coast Region Social Group! NRA Life Member - CRPA Life
Statements posted here are the sole opinions of the author and not those of CGN, CGF, CRPA, or any other institution or agency unless otherwise noted. |
#112
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Question: I bought the Solar Tactical version for out-of-state use.
Would it be a problem if I stored the magnet device inside of my MIAD pistol grip? Or would be be considered a part of the rifle, even then it makes absolutely no contact with the magazine release? (It is in a sealed pistol grip, afterall.) Thanks. -Vic |
#113
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I know it fits in there real well - but it's probably better to store it in a small pill bottle or something. .
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#114
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I think Gene's answer here about spare parts pretty much answers my question about the magnet thing: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=239501
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Thanks all. -Vic Last edited by Victory; 11-09-2009 at 8:20 PM.. |
#115
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What? Once isn't enough?
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#117
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I proudly store my Solar Tactical magnetic-bullet-button-thingy in my MIAD. I feel perfectly comfortable with it there for out-of-state use and whenever I attach my dedicated .22 upper - not a big deal.
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#119
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ive seen at the swap meet tiny little magnets, 30 for $5 and I was thinking of buying some to sell as out of state button, could make a nice profit even sold at $5 each through mail. dont know what the one here looks like but I bet it was the same idea. nice mark up, better save for lawyers fee.
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