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Airguns, AirSoft and MilSim Air rifles and pistols, AirSoft and Mil Sim Discussion

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  #1  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:12 AM
Starslinger Starslinger is offline
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Default Thinking of buying an air pistol for training

I don't know much about BB guns or pellet guns. I have heard that some of these guns have the same shape and weight as real firearms and are sometimes used as training tools. I have heard that some of them feature blowback action that moves the slide so that you can practice getting your pistol sights back on target, though I'm sure there isn't much actual recoil like a 9mm pistol.

Are these types of pistols of any value for pistol training? Sometimes I can't get out to the local range but I have a fenced in backyard I could practice in. Also, the local range only permits steel and paper targets, but I imagine I could shoot empty soda cans and such with a pellet or BB pistol. Are there BB or pellet pistols patterned after the CZ 75 and/or the Sig Sauer compact handguns? For this type of use, should I be looking at a BB gun or a pellet gun? These use CO2 cartridges, right?

Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks!
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:36 AM
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The blow back ones use CO2 cartridges. My son has a few different ones. Some of them have been less than reliable. The one that's been completely reliable is a 1911 blowback (bought at Walmart when they had them).

You can certainly practice your fundamentals with them, but you're right even the blowbacks don't recoil as much as a real gun. They are really cool though.

The CO2 ones aren't quiet, so hopefully you don't have any ratbag neighbors who will call the cops on you.

Amazon won't ship them to California. Go to your local Big5 or Walmart. Also you can try Evike.

Also, get yourself a trap

https://www.amazon.com/UTG-TL-TG001-...ds=bb+gun+trap

So far it's held up to all of my son's pellet pistols and rifles. YMMV. They do give a good "thwap" when a bb hits them.
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:35 AM
Brett Chester Brett Chester is offline
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I have a classic German Feinwerkbau Model 65 .177 target pistol in excellent condition with case, pellets, targets etc. that I don't use (senior and live in a condo). Only shot about 50 pellets since serviced and checked by Pyramid Air. Thinking about selling it for $650.00. They are hard to find and you can research it if interested.
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:25 PM
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I've used a CO2 blowback PPK clone. It's not a training replica. But it can be used for training just the same. Mine shoots high and left -- not the best for accurate shooting by any stretch. But it shoots close enough for "rapid fire" drills, such as drawing/shooting from concealment, shooting from retention, multiple shots on target, etc. If you're doing drills for situations just out of arm's reach (pretty much anything defensive), it's just fine. Picked it up on Amazon and they delivered to my door.

For slow, aimed fire, I've got an Umarex Trevox (single shot). The trigger is long and heavy -- perfect for me since one of my primary carry weapons is a Kahr. I learned years ago that bad triggers on training weapons make for better shooting on "live" weapons.

For a pellet trap, I now use a length of rolled carpet remnant that I stuffed into a wood box. It's much quieter on impact and easily stops even my .22 PCP rifle.
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2018, 10:26 AM
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Check www.evike.com
My old GBB pistol reviews:

You're in luck because airsoft GBB pistols (Gas Blow-Back) come a wide selection of popular pistol makes/models, which is why they are a practical option for home training. As they are designed to be nearly 100% clones of the real pistols and magazines so they should fit into your real holsters and pouches without modification.

The best quality GBB guns are made by KWA and Umarex. WE makes the broadest range of guns and I've own several, but sometimes I've heard of people getting lemons, so be sure you buy from a seller that has a good return/exchange policy. That said, I've owned about a dozen different GBB guns over the last 10 years and none of them have caused me problems, other than the magazine's inner seals leaking over time. Be prepared to buy replacements (about $10-$15ea) from time to time.

Blowback gas pistols include Green Gas (aka non-stinky Propane in special cans) as well as CO2 cartridges. Green Gas guns are more numerous and provide a wider selection of gun styles. Both types are nearly 100% clones of real pistols in terms of weight and shape. CO2 guns may be restricted at indoor airsoft fields because they fire at a higher FPS than Green Gas.
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Last edited by MoondogIndustries; 11-15-2018 at 2:05 PM..
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2018, 1:36 PM
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Interested in seeing what people recommend and the comments here.

All I have are some Crosman's. I have a couple of those .357's - new and old styles. Also an Auto Air II - if you can master that trigger, you can control anything (Stacking heavy monstrosity). I used to like the idea of shooting really bad triggers on airguns to help with real guns. Have not done it in a long time. Maybe I will break out the CO2 cylinders.
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Old 01-02-2019, 9:37 AM
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I have been practicing with the Beeman P1 air pistol. It is very close to the design and shape of the 1911 and using it has improved my pistol shooting tremendously. The P1 has recoil and takes some time to master, but it is quiet, powerful and the perfect trainer for pistol shooting. They are German made and will last long time. Another form of thei air pistol is the HW 45. Same pistol but has fiber optic sights.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I don't know much about BB guns or pellet guns. I have heard that some of these guns have the same shape and weight as real firearms and are sometimes used as training tools. I have heard that some of them feature blowback action that moves the slide so that you can practice getting your pistol sights back on target, though I'm sure there isn't much actual recoil like a 9mm pistol.

Are these types of pistols of any value for pistol training? Sometimes I can't get out to the local range but I have a fenced in backyard I could practice in. Also, the local range only permits steel and paper targets, but I imagine I could shoot empty soda cans and such with a pellet or BB pistol. Are there BB or pellet pistols patterned after the CZ 75 and/or the Sig Sauer compact handguns? For this type of use, should I be looking at a BB gun or a pellet gun? These use CO2 cartridges, right?

Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks!

I find them to be a GREAT help when introducing new shooters to the sport. I've acquired two pistols that are close analogues to actual service pistols for training of new shooters.

It allows them to handle a firearm facsimile in the comfortable environment of home, knowing that if they goof up, nobody is going to die. It allows them to make mistakes they can learn from, and develop habits and muscle memory that they can then transfer to the range. They can acquire the basics of how to form a sight picture the same as on a real gun.

People who have no experience with firearms have already learned a lot of bad habits from using squirt guns as kids, and spray bottles as adults (similar to the hand, you grip, then squeeze). This allows them a gentler learning curve without the added stress of handling a live weapon and dealing with the unfamiliar noise/activity of a live range.

As a marksmanship training tool for an experienced firearms handler... maybe, but probably not nearly as much benefit. About as effective as "dry firing" I would guess.
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Old 01-07-2019, 2:27 PM
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I have a small pellet trap with two 2" spinners in the box. I had it forever and just assembled it. It works well with a Crosman 1077 and a Benjamin Wildfire (basically same gun, same mags with 12 round pellet clips). Was recently scoping these two or getting decent scopes on them. I had a $25 4x Pronghorn on the 1077 forever and it is pretty dingy but works. Short distances like 30 ft to 15 yards adjustable objectives are really important if you want to see a clear image with clear reticle. The one old scope that I found works really well for me is an old Simmon 44 Mag 6.5-20x44 AO. AO goes from 10 feet up. I like the Crosman wadcutter pellets. Others are not as accurate. Ordered a 3-9 22 Mag scope that is AO for the 1077.

I had a non-AO CrossfireII and a Diamondback - tested both. Neither could get the image and reticle in sharp focus at short ranges (indoors).

I think the Wildfire is a neat gun. Limited but hopefully good for kids to learn to use a scope. I just pump it up with a HPA hand pump. Seems WAY more powerful than regular CO2 (1077) version. SMACKS targets hard and is 3x louder.

https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Medium-Pr...ywords=UTG+1PC

These mounts work really well.

Last edited by crufflers; 01-07-2019 at 2:35 PM..
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Old 01-07-2019, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
It works well with a Crosman 1077 and a Benjamin Wildfire (basically same gun, same mags with 12 round pellet clips).
Both the Wildfire and 1077 get horrible reviews on Amazon. So I crossed both off my list of candidates. What has your experience been with them?

Do you use a compressor or hand pump?

Sorry for the threadjack OP.
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Old 01-07-2019, 7:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
Both the Wildfire and 1077 get horrible reviews on Amazon. So I crossed both off my list of candidates. What has your experience been with them?

Do you use a compressor or hand pump?

Sorry for the threadjack OP.
I like them. Had the 1077 forever... really accurate with the pellets it likes... Wildfire is more powerful and the tank isn’t huge so manually pumping up is no big deal... wouldn’t want to pump it any longer to get to the end of the green range on the gun’s gauge. Inexpensive. Both shoot like semi-autos - as fast as you want... triggers are fine for a DAO revolver trigger on an inexpensive air gun. I have a NP Trail .22 also. I usually have more fun with the precharged or the CO2... I’ll never pay $700 + for a hunting grade repeating PCP, so these are fine. If I want more power I shoot a rim fire.

I have both the dual CO2 Umarex’s too... The one that looks like B&T MP9 and the one that looks like an AR. Steel Storm, Steel Force.



Beeman/Crosman

Last edited by crufflers; 01-08-2019 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 01-08-2019, 8:55 AM
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The Diana Storm Rider multi-shot looks interesting. Anyone have that one? 9-shot repeater, PCP max 2900 PSI, $220 range.
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Old 01-08-2019, 5:14 PM
Raiderh20boy Raiderh20boy is offline
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to the original question , you might want to checkout Pyramyd Air. I purchased a few pellet pistols from them that mimic the real thing as far as weight. Have a lot of "brand" name pistols available.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiderh20boy View Post
to the original question , you might want to checkout Pyramyd Air. I purchased a few pellet pistols from them that mimic the real thing as far as weight. Have a lot of "brand" name pistols available.
I always liked AIRGUNDEPOT better.

https://www.airgundepot.com/

So here is an example of groups with a Wildfire and cheap Crosman bulk pack wadcutters. Target is exactly 40 feet away from end of barrel - shooting prone.



the second target since I installed my old Simmon 44MAG scope on it... dialing in still. Rapid fire groups of 12.

Bottom is on a new fill where the level is above the green (above 2000 psi)

Top is the second group of 12 where level is in the green

Center is already showing dropping off shots 30-36

Tank will be at end of green after 36-40 shots... take around 30 pumps to get it back to top, but only 15 or so to get it to the good range where the accuracy is best at least for now - have not cleaned barrel in a while.

Basically pulling trigger as fast as I can while watching the bullseye

Adjusted the zero left a bit after this target. Cheap and FUN. Obviously you can do prettier groups with these if you simply slow down but this is how I shoot it.

CO2 pistols I have these - fun but cheap, accurate enough IMHO... I guess the Steel Storm counts as a pistol. Good for sawing things in half with the first 30 shots on new powerletts.






Last edited by crufflers; 01-08-2019 at 11:21 PM..
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