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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#2
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I doubt you will find any lawyers on this or other related sites willing to tip their hand before the papers are actually filed.
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“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long |
#5
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Regards, SwissFluCase
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"We don't discuss the governor's arsenal in detail" - Brown spokeswoman Elizabeth Ashford |
#6
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Well, there is already movement with the OAL against certain underground regulation. I think these are the most likely to bear fruit first. Afterall, they are already underway. Plus Theseus' suit is moving forward and will likely be a significant case in the "sensitive area" area. The roster itself is being directly attacked in D.C. with amicus briefs by "good Californians."
Seems like enough to keep us interested and entertained. |
#7
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Need "good" plaintiffs first with "good" facts. There are a couple of CalGunners already set up in terms of both types of "good".
If I had to wager a guess, I'd say something dealing with non-public possession would be a good starter, to avoid too many issues given the "sensitive place" language in Nordyke. I.E. AWB/AW permits being lower hanging fruit.
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More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called “Irish Democracy”—the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people—than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs. |
#8
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I also seem to recall an anouncement in regards to rights restoration in the pipeline. (IIRC, the multiple plaintiffs had issues where after their 10 years as a prohibited person, they were unable to purchase a gun.) This one doesn't affect most of us, but still an important case, IMO.
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www.freestateproject.org - Liberty In Our Lifetime. www.madison-society.org - the people who brought us Nordyke and long-time litigation group. It's been more than 50 years since the US Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional to require a test and a tax for people to exercise their right to vote. Why is my right to carry a gun any different? I don't want a permission slip from a bureaucrat; I don't want to pay a tax or take a test. "Shall issue" is NOT good enough. |
#10
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Seems like we have a lot of problems with cops going so far beyond their authority in regards to forcing people to ID themselves through warrantless searches, running serial numbers, turning off voice recorders, forcing people to give up their freedom to leave for so long it constitutes arrest...
Should we just give up trying to get them to not violate their oaths of office and the law in regards to UOC and focus on destroying the unloaded requirement altogether, then go after the inevitable harassment of LOC (as seen in Wisconsin, Virginia, Arizona...)? Last edited by N6ATF; 04-25-2009 at 2:37 PM.. |
#11
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Not sure whats cooking, but I'd love to hear more about the AW ban case with Hoffman
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Owner of Patriot Apparel - Decals, Vintage Signs, Apparel and More! Ebay Store Link Etsy Store Link Last edited by Bizcuits; 04-25-2009 at 3:46 PM.. |
#12
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Wisconsin will be our precedent, I believe.
As more read about the [successful] legal action there, it may help inspire those on the fence who are afraid of police action.
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Orange County OC'er. "Lead by example!" "Gun Control isn't about guns. It's about Control." - ? |
#13
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That's a huge assumption on your part unsubstantiated by anything.
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#14
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The chicken or the egg?
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This is somewhat like what is playing out in Wisconsin which has no 'CCW' licensing and a 2A element in their State constitution. With the right secured, it would be easier to pursue the privilege.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#16
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I don't think Illinois is in the area that the 9'th circuit court has influence so they can ignore Nordyke but I think it will help getting appeals heard if they do decide to ignore Nordyke.
I hope Chicago gets that fixed but I think they have to rely more on Heller than Nordyke. |
#17
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-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#18
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Which would open many of their draconian laws to examination / litigation just as Nordyke has done in the Ninth. The anti's are going to have to accept some losses, I think, rather than risk it all on the SCOTUS.
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-- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served. Quote:
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#19
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You can see what Alan Gura thinks about Nordyke's impact on Chicago. Chicago seems hell bent on sending this issue to SCOTUS and for that I'd like to tip my hat to Richard Daley!
Nothing like incompetent opposition to make our lives easier. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#20
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Hell, he sent city buldozers in the night to tear up Meigs field to thumb his nose at the DOT and FAA! I wouldn't be suprised to see him order the Chicago police to confiscate guns rather than abide by even a SCOTUS decision that he disliked. He should be in jail for contempt of mankind!!
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"As soon as we burn 'em," Chinn said, "more come in." Ignatius Chinn, a FORMER veteran firearms agent. CONTRA COSTA TIMES 03/04/2008 "please guys please no ridiculous offers....Im a girl, not an idiot" Mistisa242 |
#21
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-- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served. Quote:
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#22
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171 (b), 626.9, 12025, 12031 makes possession of a functional and ready firearm a crime- in D.C. only an incomplete or disassembled firearm was acceptable, which is effectively what we have here. 12050 regulates licensing of concealed and exposed carry, yet all of California's metropolitan population centers are restrictive or no issue. The way I see it, however naive I may sound, is that Heller has no effect on licensed privileges- Possession and carry of whole, functioning firearms on the other hand are reaffirmed. The case must be made that an unloaded or locked up firearm is not a weapon at all and as such constitutes a ban violating the second amendment in the same manner as D.C.'s overturned ban. I dont believe the state of California can choose between 'CCW' and unrestricted open carry- it's open carry or both open carry and 'CCW'.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#23
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-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#24
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#26
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forthwith is good timing.
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#27
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I'd like to see CCW reform be up front, which it sounds like it will be.
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http://paulkrwe.blogspot.com/ On killing in self defense: I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would also rather my friends and family come visit me in prison than come to visit my grave. |
#28
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False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria http://www.a-human-right.com/ |
#29
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#30
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Pardon me while I retire to lament my inability to objectively assess the realities of the California judiciary. My apologies for my continued ignorance.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#31
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But I will say this ... Nordyke came down 3 days after Chicago filed their Appellee's Brief (available here http://www.chicagoguncase.com/wp-con...f_mcdonald.pdf). Look it over a little. What Nordyke's incorporation language DID do is demolish many of Chicago's primary arguments. And despite a strict "limited to self defense in the home" interpretation of Heller (like Nordyke did), should the 7th find incorporation then Chicago's ban on handguns in the home is out the door. Without question, one has a right to defend one's self and family, and likely others, outside the home as well ... but we are not yet to the point of defining that. So Chicago's amici were due last Friday ... but I have not seen them yet. Maybe they were trying to include references to Nordyke (if so, I bet that was a scream). Then, this coming friday, Gura/Sigale/Halbrook will file the Appellant's reply brief. Most predict copious cites of Nordyke! Oral arguments are on 26 May. This all takes time ... and sound, lasting jurisprudence isn't built in a day (nor even a decade).
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"Putting all of these textual elements [the words of the Second Amendment] together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." DC v. Heller, 26 June 2008 |
#32
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I keep seeing this misunderstanding over and over. The scope of the Heller case was to allow Dick Heller to carry his revolver in his home. That's it. But to reach that conclusion, Gura knew that the court would have to first address the larger issue of the individual right (not necessarily related to militia purposes). Gura wisely baited the court with a humble request for remedy, that forced them to jump the hurdle of the individual right. The court does not have to give the plaintiff more remedy than was requested. But this is not a limitation on the right itself. So, again, the scope of the Heller case is not, and should not be viewed as, a limitation on the means to immediate self defense in the home. |
#34
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Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850) |
#35
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Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850) |
#36
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"If laws make such self-defense impossible in the most crucial place—the home —by rendering firearms useless, then they violate the Constitution." "...does not directly impede the efficacy of self-defense or limit self defense in the home. Rather, it regulates gun possession in public places that are County property." "To summarize: the Ordinance does not meaningfully impede the ability of individuals to defend themselves in their homes with usable firearms, the core of the right as Heller analyzed it. ... Finally, prohibiting firearm possession on municipal property fits within the exception from the Second Amendment for “sensitive places” that Heller recognized." This strict interpretation is patently incorrect, but it WILL be the argument the anti-gunners take to court with them. And they will lose ... but all this will require clarification and time.
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"Putting all of these textual elements [the words of the Second Amendment] together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." DC v. Heller, 26 June 2008 Last edited by GarandFan; 04-26-2009 at 1:58 PM.. |
#37
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Now that doesn't sound like an incomplete or disassembled gun to me. |
#38
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It could be argued that inserting a magazine and racking the slide complete the assembly of a weapon system and makes it therefore ready to fire. Removal of the magazine and ammunition from the weapon renders the firearm incomplete and as useful as a rock until it's reassembled... |
#39
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If so ... and especially carrying openly ... drawing unloaded pistol from holster while drawing loaded mag from pouch, seating mag into pistol, and racking slide in less than 2 seconds? That is imminently doable, especially with practice.
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"Putting all of these textual elements [the words of the Second Amendment] together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." DC v. Heller, 26 June 2008 |
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