#1
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Posting LCMs for sale is illegal?
Ok so its established that a plain reading of the law states that a non-exempt CA resident in legal possession of a LCM cannot advertise that LCM for sale even if intended for sale outside of CA.
However, what if a CA resident shipped their LCMs out of state for safe keeping by a 3rd party or even themselves and then advertised for sale those LCMs? Resident still residing in CA but selling LCMs no longer in CA? That seems like it would be the easiest way to not have to destroy LCMs if the owner could no longer keep them for various reasons. |
#2
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Simple answer: CA can't charge you with a crime if the sale didn't occur in CA.
But why even entertain situations as complex as you're proposing? Is this a real issue, or are you just posting to post? |
#4
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I think it’s a real issue since they are not allowed to be transferred within CA but this thought experiment is just that. It’s not supposed to be ‘practical’. Just what’s possible within the law.
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#5
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Quote:
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ATF Form 4473: If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun. |
#6
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You would have to have your friend list them for sale, from out of state, and ship them to the out of state buyer, from out of state.
The questions doesn't seem that wacky to me. I have a Universal .30 carbine rifle, and a small collection of USGI mags. Based on the prices I see mags sell for on the CMP forum, the value there, for the mags approaches the value of the rifle alone, here. I may sell the rifle and later move, then sell the mags, since I can't legally list them for sale from California.
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NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member Registration is the first step towards confiscation. I identify as Non-Bidenary |
#7
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#9
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because the law states as much.
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#10
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Ok ok, how about this. CA resident owns a gun store in the UK, advertises for sale LCMs in the UK. UK licensing obviously doesn't not exempt seller in CA.
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#11
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^Since this is in the UK and not CA. If using a CA based website, then it would run afoul CA laws and may run afoul Federal laws (ITAR). ^Since this is in CA and CA laws prohibits a non-exempt person while in CA to advertise for sale large capacity magazines. ~Federal laws prohibits the sale/exportation of large capacity magazines to people in other countries, unless it is approved by the US State Department. Under CA laws/regulations... While you are in CA, in order to legally be able to advertise for sale and sell large capacity magazines to people outside of CA, you must have a valid CA DOJ large capacity magazine permit. [PC 32315]
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 04-11-2019 at 10:40 PM.. |
#13
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If yes, then you can be charged for violating CA laws against advertising for sale & transferring large capacity magazines. If no, then you can not be charged for violating CA laws against advertising for sale & transferring large capacity magazines. |
#14
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Hmm that's a weird way to define things. You mean the address on file with GB? I mean if the LCMs are not with you in CA, then you're kind of just a broker.
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#15
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Yes.
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#16
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Remember, the intent of the CA large capacity magazine laws was to ban all transfers in CA (including advertisments), except for those persons that were licensed by the State.
This was done to correct the "loophole" in the Federal laws that still allowed the transfer of 11+ round magazines that were made before September 1994. CA legislative intent circa 1999... "This bill would make it a crime to do anything with detachable large capacity magazines after January 1, 2000 -except possess and personally use them- punishable as a misdemeanor/felony. One could still possess those magazines after January 1, 2000, but could generally only transfer them to anyone but a licensed dealer or gunsmith (for modification) if the magazine has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds." So from the legislative intent... It would only be legal to possess them, use them, and transfer them to FFL dealers. Transfers to anyone else would not be legal, unless they were permanently modified into 10 or less round magazines. |
#17
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But the address on file with GB is just some arbitrary book keeping data in their system that's not in any way verified. It doesn't change the fact that I'm physically in CA or that the LCMs are not in CA. So it's illegal book keeping? It's just very strange concept.
But while in CA right? I could fly out with my LCMs to a free state and I'm still technically a CA resident but while in the free state I could legally transfer the LCMs to anyone. I just figured that if the LCMs are not in CA anymore, that law doesn't apply even though a CA resident is brokering the sale. Does CA have jurisdiction over CA residents assets that reside outside of CA? Last edited by shaocaholica; 04-11-2019 at 10:59 PM.. |
#18
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#20
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Go back to the Something Awful forums. |
#21
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IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.
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ATF Form 4473: If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun. |
#22
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Hypotheticals like this annoy me. Stop trying to find every point to be guilty on. INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Don't prove yourself guilty (stfu) and do what you believe is just. 99% of the time, that will also be legal. Unjust laws are meant to be ignored, especially if law enforcement doesn't give a **** (they don't care about your mags)
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#23
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Last edited by shaocaholica; 04-13-2019 at 7:46 AM.. |
#24
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No no no. A thousand times no. This is nonsensical. The language is past tense. The window is closed. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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?Seek the Lord while He may be found? |
#25
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To prove my point businesses are still shipping to persons as of today.
__________________
ATF Form 4473: If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun. |
#26
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This ignores the question of what happens should a higher court uphold the constitutionality of 32301. |
#27
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Find me a business that is currently selling to CA. They can't because the window closed
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March 29- April 5, 2019- The Million Mag March. Thank you, Judge Benitez and all the vendors Quote:
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#28
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The permanent injunction applies to persons and businesses, NOT to the magazines themselves.
__________________
ATF Form 4473: If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun. |
#29
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If you are not a lawyer or can’t cite a lawyer, then STFU! Your idiotic reading of the law is going cost someone their freedom and more. Mods, can we ban this troll? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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?Seek the Lord while He may be found? |
#30
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Are you just retarded or something? Incapable of reading english? Are you in danger of self-harm? You seem like it.
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#31
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If you bought a LCM between the time of judgment and 5 P.M. of April 5, and you think you can now buy and import more LCMs, go ahead and do it, But unless you have solid authority for what you preach, it is totally irresponsible of you to encourage others to do the same. Just read the first and last paragraphs of the Order Staying In Part Judgment On Appeal. The first: Quote:
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Last edited by Chewy65; 04-18-2019 at 5:37 PM.. |
#32
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Posting LCMs for sale is illegal?
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What are you talking about??? Igs is stating that people can continue to buy or sell mags outside the Benitez window. Is this your position? Wait, you’ve been on CG all of 6 minutes. I’ll defer to your expertise. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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?Seek the Lord while He may be found? Last edited by 1911RONIN; 04-18-2019 at 7:34 PM.. |
#33
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It's a damn good thing that I've got a LCIL.
Large Capacity Ignore List. I don't want to hear from some of you ever again.
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Real G?s move in silence like lasagna |
#34
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Have you always been this surly? Or is this just something you’ve developed after a full month of membership here on Calguns?
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Anchors Aweigh |
#35
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We really need to settle on one standard as far as our nomenclature is concerned.
I propose the following: SCM (Standard Capacity Magazine) - the range of magazines that typically ship with a new firearm and/or around which the firearm was originally designed to be used. LCM (Large Capacity Magazines) - higher capacity variants of magazines that wouldn’t typically ship with weapon, i.e. extended length or drum magazines. URCM (Unconstitutionally Restricted Capacity Magazines) - magazines arbitrarily restricted by government overreach to a capacity below that for which the firearm was designed.
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Semper Fi, Bill NRA Life Endowment Member DAV Life Member |
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