Anyone following KO2M?

[hubel458]

That bevel in the one fired was just caused by cutting disc removing primer..

About 416 cal bullets............The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullets,

and 500 gr 9 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Barrels I have 10 to 1.

Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier bullets for ELR.

Have hole maybe 2/3 size of tail end of boat tail...Some going to have to try it to see if it is accurate. Ed.

[LynnJr]

Ed
.
Wouldn't lightening the boattail just move the center of gravity forward and require even more twist?

[hubel458]

No, making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin,

like hollow base 585cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist,or less

while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1.............

By being nose heavy that center of gravity is moved forward

of the center of air pressure, so it acts to lead the point of

the bullet straight, cut down wobble.When center of gravity is behind

the center of pressure, the bullet pushing against that presssure

wants the back to yaw/wobble needing more spin to stabilise it.Ed

[hubel458]

About 416 cal bullets............

The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullet,
and 520 gr 9.5 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Some barrels I picked up are 10 to 1.......

Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better
long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier 550 gr bullets for ELR.
Making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin,
like our hollow base 585 cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist, or less
while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1 to stabilise them..............

The winner of the King Of 2 Mile shoot last week was using 416 Barrett with a 1 to 10
twist, with a 500 gr CEB Lazer bullet, ...Robert Brantley, with Manners Stocks....

Paul Philips was third with a 416...

GOOD NEWS-- There is now an importer and seller of our 585 HE brass getting set up here,
in US, hopefully will be in stock, few weeks........ http://bertrambrass.com .. .. Caleb Hallet..

Have got another intermediate size action besides the Montana PH our guys working on,
to do speed testingwith. It is big long REM style action that can take our 416 HSM, ED

[hubel458]

Experimental intermediate size action with the Montana PH, for comparison.

It is an experimental action for our 416 HSM, to do our speed testing with

and get a better action than Cheytac size actions, for bigger case ELR use,

without going all way up to more expensive, huge actions.

It is big long round style action that can take our 416 HSM, almost

1.6" diameter and .800" bolt, with locking lugs nearly as big as most

BMG actions.... ED

[LynnJr]

Ed.
Is it made by David Trout or Dave Kiff? Looks like a Tac 408 or B66 Destroyer?

[hubel458]

It is being developed by Pierce,

Here is picture of the bolt from the experimental action,

with our 416 HSM case in it. Note the amount of the

base size of locking lugs, the amount of area on the bolt...ED

[hubel458]

Spearpoint ELR Roundup
Ride the wind in Kansas
August 11 & 12, 2018

ELR match will be held at Spearpoint Ranch near Lincoln, Ks.
Spearpoint $1000 Three Shot Challenge will be held Saturday Morning.

ELR match will have 7 steel targets from 1500 yds out to 2900 yds.
Competitors will fire 4 rounds at each target on each day for a total of 56 rounds.
Scoring will emphasize first round hits with declining point values per attempt.

Calibers up to and including .50 BMG welcome.
All shooting will be from a prone position.

Cost is $80 per shooter.
An additional $20 for those wishing to try the Spearpoint Challenge

[hubel458]

Here is link to guy doing special 585 HE in the EU, Good pictures., Ed,...........www.585he.cz

[hubel458]

We tested intermediate action with a 700HE barrel we had here.

Just temporary to test strength. 1000 gr over 3100..

Action worked fine.. Ed.

[hubel458]

Here is the intermediate size action for 416 HSM with test barrel, .Ed

[sigstroker]

Do they have an electronic gong?

How can they see through the scope with the barrel in the way?

[sigstroker]

This guy is a genius.

[Bumslie]

Originally Posted by sigstroker

This guy is a genius.

mind blown

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[hubel458]

In 416 HSM got a 415 gr long brass bullet 3800,

with plain barrel, no brake, on intermediate action, Ed

[hubel458]

Now my 416 HE gets same 415gr bullet to 3300.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of our 416HSM cases with screw in shellholders,

for Ammomaster, etc, and slip in shellholders for regular presses

Also have some for big LEE Classic and Smart Reloader presses..

A 378 WEA MAG in picture for comparison...


Second is stacks of 416 HSM, about a third fireformed

and the rest to be fireformed... So far total about 1700, Ed

[ELR Researcher]

Ed - as far as the slip-in (standard 7/8-14) press inserts:

1. I'll assume that they are NOT custom but a standard unit - for which commercial cartridge? If they are custom, why?
2. Given the extreme length of the casings and ammo, what 7/8-14 presses have you found that have sufficient throat to actually use for sizing - and for seating?

Thanks.

[hubel458]

The slip in are custom as well as the thread in. Our rim on the ones for intermediate action is smaller than bmg rim. Press that works is Ammomaster for long bmg cases, a WALNUT HILL by Corbin, And with little work a Lee classic cast press. Dies have to be one inch and bigger diameter. If guy got a regular large bmg action then we have cases with rims to fit that bmg size bolt face. And both of those have same internal volumne.. Ed..

[hubel458]

Now my unconventional seating deal is usable on any large press. I use open top bushing with the long pointed bullets , just raise case up into the die with bushing out, drop in bullet from the top, lower case and bullet a little, screw in bushing and the raise case to seat. The bushing centers bullet by pressing on the ogive of the bullet, and that also saves having to have a die 9-10 inches long. Here is die doing one in my
375 HE.If the press isn't real tall, then we to get loaded round out, just unscrew die...Ed

[hubel458]

Bob Snapp, 90, the great Gun Craftsman, of

Clare, Michigan, passed away Jan 28th....

He was an esteemed member of the

American Custom Gunmakers Guild,

Being its president in 1992..He liked

working with Martini Cadet singleshot rifles.

We lost a great friend,,,Ed

[hubel458]

It is possible rig up holders for many types setups.,

About shellholder supply for big cases,

RCBS and others make slip in holders for shotgun cases..

Here are various sizes........


16ga-- .810" rim,

20ga-- .760" rim,

24ga .725" rim,

28ga .680" rim....

[hubel458]

.....


It is possible rig up holders for many types setups.,

About shellholder supply for big cases,

RCBS and others make slip in holders for shotgun cases

that can work or reworked for big rimmed rifle cases...

Here are various sizes.......

16ga-- .810" rim,........ 20ga-- .760" rim,....

24ga-- .725" rim,....... 28ga .680" rim....

Ch4d and Buffalo Arms also have these larger shellholders...


We fireform the 416 HSM with 65 gr of medium speed

surplus powder, with rest of case filled with farina

and grits mix, with a play dough plug in the neck.

It is loud, so we shoot it into big container through a barrel size

size hole, so the sound is muffled, so it doesn't deafen us..


It is great getting more companies making 416 caliber bullets,

long target and bore rider bullets. Ed..



....

[hubel458]

Wonder if PTRD with 5 ft long barrel is stable enough

for ELR , using our 416 hsm or .........maybe .458 HSM..........


Here is up north guy using 585 HE in a PTRD with inserts,

Light load.....Inserts are in the shape of the 14.5mm case....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyab...ature=youtu.be

[hubel458]

HERE ia video, 585 Hubel Express and water jugs - slow motion

750 gr with 155gr RE17, just a moderate load.....Ed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXAo1mJqw8Y

[hubel458]

Guys are still having trouble with various cases with too thick of sides. The thick sided case have enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,,And they'd work with proper slow powders, we are working on a 458 HSM experiment, with case holding 400 gr ball powder under the bullet. ED

[hubel458]

20mm Vulcan is a big case that works ok, without having

the sides made too thick...They have thinner sides

than smaller cases guys are getting that have the sides

made too thick and won't extract easy or work with high pressures.


Here Barnard P Cheytac bolt that would do for our 416 HSM..Ed......

[hubel458]

Got guys doing various 416 HEs..

One just built a 416 HE, just been testing it a few days..

And using 168gr of HBMG 475 gr CEB, tested it, in good

conditions, 2 shots at 1800 yards and was within

a 1/4 of minute accuracy...A few shots at shorter ranges

had same accuracy. Ed..

[hubel458]

More about our 416 HSM from BMG brass, and
our 416 HE & 460 HE from our 585 HE cases
Got reamers for 375 HE, 416 HE and 416 HSM,....

460 HE & 460 HSM are all spec'd, got HE reamer
soon have HSM reamer...Our HSMs have a Wea type
radius on the shoulder..

The fellow that set up our 416 HE in an ELR rifle
and got 1/4 min accuracy,
They got some game out west over 1400 yds..
.Here is the gun they set up.
Using a K&P 34" barrel on a BAT action.....Ed

[hubel458]

And have 460 HSM specs figured out, the impetus for that is some
asking about one, and new, great line of 458 bullets CEB now has.
It will hold more powder than the 416 HSM.....Ed..

[hubel458]

The guys that did the super accurate 416 HE did another
416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..

Used a Stiller action and same load with 475 gr bullet, as in
first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy.
3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.

And loads they used are not the highest speed loads
the cartridge is capable of....Here is print with specs for
the 416 HE reamer chamber ....Ed....

[hubel458]

More about he guys that did the accurate 416 HE, they did a
416 HE that has an 8" longer 42 inch K&P barrel..

Used longer barrel and the same load with 475 gr bullet, as used
in the first gun and and gained about 200 fps with good accuracy,.
3065 fps. Tested 2 groups of 3 and less than 1/2 min moa.

And loads they used are not the highest speed loads
the cartridge is capable of....Here is picture.......Ed....

[LynnJr]

And they'd work with proper slow powders, we are working on a 458 HSM experiment, with case holding 400 gr ball powder under the bullet. ED

Ed
What case are you using that holds 400 grains of powder under the bullet?
The 50BMG holds 265 grains under a properly seated bullet.

[hubel458]

Experimenting to use a BMG case with shoulder forward like the

416 HSM and bigger diameter shoulder, called 460 HSM. Holds

360 gr. Not quite 400..Another bigger case planned on couldn't

be found in decent numbers, and had wrong primer....

Here is print with chamber reamer specs for the
416 HSM chamber..There are 3 base sizes we have,
depending on actions used. Got reamers for all 3..
Got cases for all of them..
Our cases are public domain, so that is why I post
info and specs. Manson makes reamers I use,,, Ed.

[hubel458]

Here is reamer print with chamber reamer specs for
the 460 HSM chamber .Couple guys getting set
to do 38-40 inch heavy 458 target barrels...Ed....

[hubel458]

With 40 inch barrel 416 HSM ,475 gr, get 3650, over 13,000 ft lbs muzzle energy.
Got guys getting set to have 38-40 inch 458 barrels made for 460 HSM.Ed..

[firefly416]

FYI, King Of Two Miles 2020 is cancelled.

[hubel458]

More info on this gun, we did it for testing 416 HSM with a rebated rim,
to check in intermediate size actions, with the longer, stronger, bolt lugs, Ed..

[hubel458]

Here is experimental action for 416 HSM in a heavy
stock....We lengthened port a little, set bolt stop back ,
opened bolt face fit the 416 HSM rebated rim. Ed.

Here is comparison of Montana PH to Pierce action we
modified to use for rebated rim 416 HSM testing..Ed.

[hubel458]

416 & 460 HE AND 416 & 460 HSM .LONG RANGE AND HUNTING
Can be set up in *Pierce *X10 *ACTION for the 416 & 460 HE *
AND X20 action for the 416 & 460 HSM , Can get those
if guys need one...Ed