Anyone following KO2M?

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

It's called damage control.

Luckily we kept a copy 😂

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[Hoffer]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

It's called damage control.

I saw the videos's and it was not good. Have not seen that many spotters in one place before.

Even the comments about a few other things that happened are gone.

I really wanted to go next year. We'll see what rules they change in the meantime to prevent the problems.

[Hoffer]

Originally Posted by kcstott

I say publish the crap out of any incriminating evidence and let the chips fall where they may, if the promoter chooses to play favorites publish that crap too and boycott. I know of more then a few places to set targets out to two miles in socal, screw these guys,

If enough people stand up and are heard it will definitely help.

Where there is money politics will follow.

[kcstott]

Originally Posted by Hoffer

If enough people stand up and are heard it will definitely help.

Where there is money politics will follow.

unfortunately that is very true,

[URSA Facilitator]

The most amazing thing to me was the gear used by the second place finisher - box-stock Barrett 99 in .416 Barrett

Posted about 6:30 PM, Pacific today (7/10) on the Ko2M FB page:

*************


There has been a lot of interest in the equipment used by the top shooters. But we did not have the full information. We will be publishing the list as soon as we have the complete information coming in.
To start with, here is the second place Ronnie Wright´s Team Barrett´s equipment.

Ronnie Wright (Team Barrett) Equipment used during Ko2M 2017:
Rifle: Barrett M99, .416 Barrett (Stock Rifle)
Scope: Nightforce ATACR (Tremor 3)
Scope Level: Accuracy 1st
Bipod: Phoenix Precision
Ammo: Barrett loaded 472 grain MTAC
Projectile: Cutting Edge Bullets .416 cal. 472 grain MTAC
Brass: Barrett .416 Barrett
Powder: Reloader 50
Primer: CCI 35
Rear Bag: Armageddon Gear
Ballistics Program: AB Elite Geo
Laser Rangefinder: Vectronix PLRF 15C w/ DRS Bluetooth dongle

[URSA Facilitator]

I'm wondering why the "...as we have complete information coming in." Not captured during registration?

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by URSA Facilitator

I'm wondering why the "...as we have complete information coming in." Not captured during registration?

Would have been pretty easy if this was done on the registration form . . .

[hubel458]

The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr..

If I win lottery get 400,000 of each made.. Ed..

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by hubel458

The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr..

If I win lottery get 400,000 of each made.. Ed..

Let's hope you win it !

Than you will have a lot of brass . . . .

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[hubel458]

We have couple thousand 375 HEs ahead,

about 1500 416 HEs, any of which can be sized 408s.

Plus cases out to about 10 guys including Mitch's crew.

416 HE long just experiment for now, And we are

slowly making 416 HSMs from 6 big boxes of bmg brass,

and have few boxes of 585 HE we make 375/416 from. Ed

[hubel458]

Here is link to the final rounds that Derek shot,

on video, the link posted on ELR Central...

https://youtu.be/2hDhPcRR2Uo


Alrighty -- I did not see any cheating...

the only two who spoke to Derek was

his spotter and wind coach, as per the rules.

Took almost all of the 9 min to get shots off.. Ed

Ed Hubel

[hubel458]

Another thought--

Mitch told me that guys winning does it in the first days shooting if he

is geared to those 4 fairly close ranges and gets them all. Derek did great job and

come close to getting all. Now all first days distances are all around mile mark.

Being this striving for 2 mile hits, the first 4 targets should be spread out

longer, like 1550, 1800, 2100, 2400, be more interesting, would take

more true measure of long range shooter on first day..


Also thehigher tailwinds a great problem second day, and guys doing best that day

were shooting milder speeds. Maybe would do to have hotrods with

throttled down set of loads, that they have practiced with in a strong tailwind,

to shoot on those days, Ed

[LynnJr]

I notice he shoots fast to get all of his shots off in a similar condition.
The video only shows the line.
If they are reducing the load in a hotrod cartridge it is to get better accuracy.

[hubel458]

How many URSA guys will be at Tonapah, Ed

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by hubel458

How many URSA guys will be at Tonapah, Ed

About 3 I guess

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[Hoffer]

Originally Posted by Kingair001

About 3 I guess

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Kurt from Las Vegas Targets, Hognuts (Bill) and I will be on the same team at Tonopah. That's all I know of.

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by Hoffer

Kurt from Las Vegas Targets, Hognuts (Bill) and I will be on the same team at Tonopah. That's all I know of.

Than 5 since I am going as well along with my spotter

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[Hoffer]

Originally Posted by Kingair001

Than 5 since I am going as well along with my spotter

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But you have not shot any URSA events which was the original question

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by Hoffer

But you have not shot any URSA events which was the original question

Than 3 😂

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[LynnJr]

Those 3 shooters took first second and third place at the July 16 URSA match.
Hoffer would have placed higher but he used up all of his energy pulling me out of the sand twice.
His old nickname was The HitMan but we might change it to Raptor to the Rescue.

[Kingair001]

Nice saving !

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[Hoffer]

Hey Lynn,

The second time you got stuck was a good one.

[LynnJr]

Neither of them was good especially in 100+ degree heat but now after getting towed 86 miles on my way home I have to replace the transmission.
$3000 trip and I only lit up the light one time.

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

Neither of them was good especially in 100+ degree heat but now after getting towed 86 miles on my way home I have to replace the transmission.
$3000 trip and I only lit up the light one time.

OMG Lynn

Sorry to hear that . . .

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[LynnJr]

KingAir
Better that the transmission blew up on the way home rather than during deer season. I was on hwy 158 west near the north Livermore exit which is way better than 20 miles off road in the bottom of a canyon without phone service.

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

KingAir
Better that the transmission blew up on the way home rather than during deer season. I was on hwy 158 west near the north Livermore exit which is way better than 20 miles off road in the bottom of a canyon without phone service.

I know but still . . .

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[LynnJr]

Yeah blowing parts up sucks but there are good locations and horrible locations to do it at.
I got lucky and did it in a good location.
Glad it was at 8pm in NorCal rather than 511 miles away in SoCal with 112 heat.

[kcstott]

Trucks only break down in two places, far from home or far from pay day

[URSA Facilitator]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

Those 3 shooters took first second and third place at the July 16 URSA match.
Hoffer would have placed higher but he used up all of his energy pulling me out of the sand twice.
His old nickname was The HitMan but we might change it to Raptor to the Rescue.

Lynn

I cannot believe YOU managed to get yourself in that deep (right side pic). My had-to-be-towed experience from last year was not THAT bad. How great it was to have Hoffer there to pull you out! Thank you Hoffer!!!

And to top that off you blew the tranny. OUCH! $3K, really? Seems time to consider getting a "new" truck and give up the ghost on the old "beater". $3K would most likely be an acceptable down on a "new" truck. Please consider.

[LynnJr]

I put it up on jackstands after work today and ran it at idle in second gear. I could barely hear the engine it was so loud.
I shut it off and pulled out the driveshaft to eliminate the rear end as the culprit.
Started it back up and it was as loud as ever so I pulled off the transfer case.
Fired it up and ran it through all five gears and it was dead quiet and smooth as silk.
I pulled the transfer case out and tried turning the output shaft and it felt like garbage then locked up solid.
The good news is a NP241C only runs a $1000 and it takes half an hour to install.

[Kingair001]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

I put it up on jackstands after work today and ran it at idle in second gear. I could barely hear the engine it was so loud.
I shut it off and pulled out the driveshaft to eliminate the rear end as the culprit.
Started it back up and it was as loud as ever so I pulled off the transfer case.
Fired it up and ran it through all five gears and it was dead quiet and smooth as silk.
I pulled the transfer case out and tried turning the output shaft and it felt like garbage then locked up solid.
The good news is a NP241C only runs a $1000 and it takes half an hour to install.

Good news !

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[hubel458]

Shooters now are talking more; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

[LynnJr]

Ed Hubel
In the quest for more velocity alot of shooters start taking the taper out of the cases body. While this does add volume it makes case extraction more difficult. Most now stick with P.O.Ackleys case taper to avoid that situation.
On the freebore or seating depth of the bullet this is the current issue with the 338 Lapua Improved. Most are only getting 3000 FPS with a 300 grain bullet and by simply spec'ing the reamer with another 0.175 - 0.190 more freebore your accuracy window moves up to 3150 FPS. That is huge and some are even calling it a +P chambering.
Primer pockets have always been a issue because it costs more to produce harder brass and harder brass wears out the forming equipment sooner than softer brass.
In competitive shooting there is Lapua brass and then there is everything else.

[hubel458]

Shoulder taper is factor too, I go little shallower.

The real long cases made from my 585 brass fired half dozen times, mine
and Mitch's, top loads, pockets decent, bases grow, I put on my case lathe
and put base and belt back to specs, fire some more.

Now Derek shooting 375 Cheytac did good, not because case is best
in the universe, but many times the experience he has, in real bad
wind conditions.. He shooting 400 gr 2800 or so with bullets loaded
down in. Short fat case guys try to get like 500 fps more with bullets
down in, get half that and pockets no good for 3rd load, brass is same
chemical type as my 585 brass.. They could get little more with right powder
and bullet out in long freebore but not the 5-600 more I got with our
long case loaded out. Difference is chamber shape. It is the proportions
that count ...folks poopooh the idea, but I've been doing this
and researching internal ballistics for over 60 years.

Does bullet loaded out in fat case at 3100 working good,
not sticking, or at 33-3400 in our case, not sticking, have an
equal amount of winners. Could be, There are
other factors also.

What is silly about this, guys knocking longer regular and
belted cases, by guys whose cases just failed
with pockets shot after two rounds.....as a half dozen
birdies have relayed to me in the last month .

Even our case will not last 6-8 rounds if we load bullet way down in

like others want to and are loading, without big cut in velocity to save brass, Ed

[LynnJr]

Ed Hubel
The short fat cases are easy to get to shoot well thus there popularity.
If your running a long freebore and your not getting the velocity you need you can use a slower burning powder in a longer barrel or you can simply run the reamer in deeper.
My 338 SnipeTac's both have chambers longer than usual.
The downside to this is you need dies that fit and each time you run the reamer in deeper you lose neck length.

[hubel458]

Yes some I know are easy to get, but ones guys losing

pockets in, was special order, no belt fatter case, among others.


With long 375 case and long freebore I started slowest powder packed

full under bullet, then go to next fastest till we get right one . Got ten powders

slower than Hbmg, barrels are 34" and .240" freebore. "

About our case availability, got over 3000 here, and

Bruce got many times of the 585s, that he just has to setup and neck them..

Barrels full setting there.,,Ed

[hubel458]

Now we think the other factor for how tough pockets are

that has started big donnybrook with some folks,

is different heading dies and processes to make our

belted case head, which we think makes head of case tougher. ED

[LynnJr]

Ed Hubel
The only way you can make the caseheads last longer is to use harder brass or stamp the caseheads more to work harden them more. This of course needs to be done before the pockets get put into place.
In the good old days you could buy what at that time they called steel head cases. It was a machined caseheads made out of steel with a threaded on brass case body. They were cheap and you never had a primer pocket issue ever.
Hoffer or Focus both have the talent to duplicate this in a larger caseheads but now that Peterson is making Cheytac brass and Lapua is making 50 BMG brass we should be good to go.

Here is a link to the Steelhead cases made by O'Conner Rifle Company.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo10jun.htm

[hubel458]

When I looked at the headers and belted heading dies, other dies

that was sold years ago out in SD, Asq bankruptcy sale, and inspected the header machine

there, and watched a film later, a film of how headers work ,it seemed to me

that the belted case does have to have couple extra hits, maybe more, while in die

in heading machine. A wildcat I made many years ago we used Bell brass,,

tough and springy, a little soft, 45k psi loads fine, 65k psi pocket shot in 2 firings.

I took few and fired 10 times with 40k psi load, that shock hardened heads

and then could fire 65k loads all day and pockets held...Ed

[hubel458]

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed