Opinions: Build or Buy a 9mm AR versus the Ruger PC Carbine?

[jcwatchdog]

Originally Posted by MajorSideburns

One issue I have read online that people have is while using Glock magazines they tend to wear out the plastic notch of the magazine against the metal magazine catch of the PCC. This causes a loose fit and slop which leads to malfunctions. I use Glock magazines in mine and have not seen this happen yet but I have been delicate with mine. You can mitigate the problem by not over inserting the magazine or rocking it back and forth with Superman force.

It?s happened to me. A couple of Glock mags were ruined. I?ve since replaced the factory catch with this. There might be other options also but this one worked for me.

https://cromusa.com/product/pcc-magazine-catch/

[bohoki]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

It?s happened to me. A couple of Glock mags were ruined. I?ve since replaced the factory catch with this. There might be other options also but this one worked for me.

https://cromusa.com/product/pcc-magazine-catch/

since freedom week i only use a magpul 20 and a ets 30 in my ar-9 i havent noticed any damage to my preban glock mags from the aluminum catch

[Dirtlaw]

Even though it may be ugly, pretty sure I'll be getting one of those POF Tombstones. It checks a lot of boxes. Light weight. Magazine fed. Way down on the government target list because it's not semi-auto.

[jcwatchdog]

Originally Posted by bohoki

since freedom week i only use a magpul 20 and a ets 30 in my ar-9 i havent noticed any damage to my preban glock mags from the aluminum catch

The magazine catch is steel with the Ruger. If you look closely, you will see some damage I?m sure using it. It may not be obvious, but it?s there. There?s no way you can use Glock mags with a steel catch and not have some damage. An aluminum catch might not be as bad on ar ar9z

[MajorSideburns]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

It?s happened to me. A couple of Glock mags were ruined. I?ve since replaced the factory catch with this. There might be other options also but this one worked for me.

https://cromusa.com/product/pcc-magazine-catch/

Thank you for this, looks like I will be getting this product.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by Capybara

I just found out a local range has one for rent so next time I go out, I am going to rent it and give it a shot.

Has one what?

Sent from my LE2115 using Tapatalk

[MajorSideburns]

Originally Posted by bohoki

since freedom week i only use a magpul 20 and a ets 30 in my ar-9 i havent noticed any damage to my preban glock mags from the aluminum catch

I've never held an AR-9 so I can't compare but I think part of the issue is the Glock insert adapter for the Ruger PC is a bit generous with tolerance. This gives a bit of rock and wiggle in all directions. The magazine well on the carbine is also fairly short, I suspect the lack of support against a decent amount of the magazine body aggravates the issue. Mine can fit a penny between the rear of the Glock magazine and the magazine well when the magazine is pushed forward and the same in reverse when the magazine is pushed to the rear. I would think the issue would also be compounded with heavier longer magazines as you add more weight and leverage.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

You could go with the Magpul Backpacker stock with the Ruger PC Carbine.

If I go with the PC Carbine, it will definitely be with the Magpul Backpacker stock. That thing is just too cool to not get!

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

It?s happened to me. A couple of Glock mags were ruined. I?ve since replaced the factory catch with this. There might be other options also but this one worked for me.

https://cromusa.com/product/pcc-magazine-catch/

That's so cool that someone saw a need and made that part. I agree, Freedom Week mags are far too precious in California to wear them out with a metal magazine catch.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

Even though it may be ugly, pretty sure I'll be getting one of those POF Tombstones. It checks a lot of boxes. Light weight. Magazine fed. Way down on the government target list because it's not semi-auto.

At $1,962 to $2,067 MSRP? $1,800 Street?

Pass.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

Has one what?

Sent from my LE2115 using Tapatalk

Ruger PC Carbine. It's the only way I can shoot one before deciding to buy one.

[jcwatchdog]

Originally Posted by Capybara

If I go with the PC Carbine, it will definitely be with the Magpul Backpacker stock. That thing is just too cool not get!

Or you can go full retard like I did with my Ruger. I like it, it?s cool, but thinking back on it, I should have just left it the way it was and saved the money. It does have the nice benefit of moving the mag release closer where you can actuate it with your trigger finger.

[Mayor McRifle]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

It?s happened to me. A couple of Glock mags were ruined. I?ve since replaced the factory catch with this. There might be other options also but this one worked for me.

https://cromusa.com/product/pcc-magazine-catch/

That looks good. Do you know if it’s compatible with the Jawbone mag release?

919FF523-A8CC-40AD-A40C-65F594D84922.jpg

https://jawbonetactical.com/product/...n-mag-release/

[jcwatchdog]

Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle

That looks good. Do you know if it?s compatible with the Jawbone mag release?

Attachment 1154447

https://jawbonetactical.com/product/...n-mag-release/

It?s possible, but not sure unless you try it. You might message Cromusa and ask. If it could work with the regular Ruger mag release then it should work with the crom one.

[SnipTheDog]

I'm sure the Ruger is a nice machine, but for the cost differential between the Ruger and a custom build, do the custom build.

I built a Aero EPC and it's a hoot to shoot.

[dC0m]

Originally Posted by Capybara

1. Ruger PC Carbine
Some say that when disassembled and reassembled, you can lose zero, which would be annoying, if true?

PC Carbine owner here; I have the Magpul Backpacker stock, and have taken it down a few times and have found that the disassembly had little effect on the zero. Reassemble and it hits my target every time. Is it completely dead on, not all the time, but shots go where I need it to (steel plates).

+1 vote for the PC Carbine.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

Or you can go full retard like I did with my Ruger. I like it, it?s cool, but thinking back on it, I should have just left it the way it was and saved the money. It does have the nice benefit of moving the mag release closer where you can actuate it with your trigger finger.

Your PC Carbine looks remarkably like my Beretta 1301 Tactical! Same stock, similar forearm, etc.

[JackRydden224]

I prefer my Ruger PCC over my direct blowback AR9. It's just so darn simple and easy to work with especially with CA laws. Sometimes keeping it simple & stupid is the best way to go.

Now if you build a CMMG radial delay blowback gun that's supposed to be much smoother it might be a different story but they are significantly more expensive.

[Capybara]

I think I have pretty much decided that the PC Carbine is the way to go for me. A 9mm AR sounds like a "project" and I'd rather not add any projects to the ones I already have ;-) And as long as a 9mm AR has to wear a restricted grip, the featureless PC Carbine seems more fun to shoot.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by Capybara

I think I have pretty much decided that the PC Carbine is the way to go for me. A 9mm AR sounds like a "project" and I'd rather not add any projects to the ones I already have ;-) And as long as a 9mm AR has to wear a restricted grip, the featureless PC Carbine seems more fun to shoot.

A 9mm AR isn't much of a project any more as long as you're a little smart about it. Like I saw the Foxtrot Mike upper on sale but didn't know if it would work on a PSA lower. A little searching found a youtube that FM made where they test their upper on 4 different lowers. And voila, PSA was one of them. So you would want to do a LITTLE research to verify compatibility. Not that hard in my case, given how much stuff PSA sells, and FM being probably the most popular budget 9mm upper.

But I would NOT do an AR unless I wasn't in kali.

[walmart_ar15]

I vote for the AR9, but my experiences are only with the AR9s. The direct blow back bolt weight is really not an issue with heavier 9mm dedicated buffers. The new Thordsen stock/grip feels very much like the normal rifle stock. And there are others that have the same angle and feel.

The receivers are cheap enough now to get dedicated lowers. But if you want to use your existing RAW, mag adapters are made for both 9mm, 40 SW, and 45 ACP (Glock for 9/40, SW M&P or HK USC for 45 ACP). Just buy your favor upper and change the buffer and you are GTG. Breaks down like a PCC for packing. Probably better recoil due to longer, spread out weight when cycling. I prefer the ergonomic of an AR.

Complete upper, shop around ~ $250, new buffer ~ $30, mag well conversion for Glock about $100 to $190 depending on brand. Using existing lower save the DROS. A dedicated lower will run you about $200 complete. Ruger PCC bare low end ~ $600. AR9 Probably the cheapest way to get into PCC

[walmart_ar15]

As for AR9 is an adaptation of the AR15, not designed originally for a 9mm. Well, the same can be said for AR15, it is an adaptation from AR10, Ruger is an adaptation from 10/22. AR9 has been around for many decades more than I can say for Ruger PCC. Most if not all the flaws in the AR9 have been worked out over the years.

As for the frame, I would feel better for something that is designed to handle 55K psig downsized to handle 35K psig, vs 24K psig designed upsized to handle 35K psig. Not saying it won't work well if properly designed.

[golfish]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

Thank you sir.

And it does use Block magazines so it also has that going for it.

Glock

I didn't know...that makes it even better

[beanz2]

I was ready to drop the AR9 for newer 9mm PCCs (MPX, APC9, Stribog, etc.) until I saw the awesome aftermarket for it. It is not just a new stock, handguard or trigger, but the various delayed blowback systems, buffers, plus a lot of stuff that carry over from the AR15. It’s like the small block Chevy of PCCs. Anything new and cool is made for it first.

Other PCCs may get a cool trigger, lower or stock, but not many get a new aftermarket delayed blowback system or ported barrel SD system.

[walmart_ar15]

Originally Posted by beanz2

I was ready to drop the AR9 for newer 9mm PCCs (MPX, APC9, Stribog, etc.) until I saw the awesome aftermarket for it. It is not just a new stock, handguard or trigger, but the various delayed blowback systems, buffers, plus a lot of stuff that carry over from the AR15. It?s like the small block Chevy of PCCs. Anything new and cool is made for it first.

Other PCCs may get a cool trigger, lower or stock, but not many get a new aftermarket delayed blowback system or ported barrel SD system.

There are also custom gas operated 9mm out there too. Pricy.

[RUSN007]

JP Rifles make a great 9mm rifle - GMR15. Takes glock magz, fun to shoot.

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15

There are also custom gas operated 9mm out there too. Pricy.

Whose?

I’d be happy with LMT’s MARS-9.

[sigstroker]

Don't you have an MPX already?

[jrhglock99]

Do the Ruger with Magpul stock. Get the VISM RMR mount and mount up a Holosun 508T which will co-witness with the irons, and you?ll be set! The Magpul made me love my Ruger when the regular stock did not.

[beanz2]

Yes.

[dC0m]

Originally Posted by Capybara

I think I have pretty much decided that the PC Carbine is the way to go for me. A 9mm AR sounds like a "project" and I'd rather not add any projects to the ones I already have ;-) And as long as a 9mm AR has to wear a restricted grip, the featureless PC Carbine seems more fun to shoot.

I'm sure you will be satisfied with your purchase. Between the aftermarket mods available, as well as how well it shoots, it will become a money pit. Trust me!

[The Hamsterball]

Kalashnikov Kali-9/AK-9 Featureless (CA Legal).

End of thread.

[Blowback9]

Originally Posted by morrcarr67

You do need to adjust the extractor. Took me about 5 minutes. I really don't know why he's whining about having to tune your rifle.

I think you meant you needed to adjust the "ejector". Whining? Hardly. I'm the author of Blowback9.com and the guy who wrote the article about the flawed design of the 9mm AR. I was pointing out to novices and the technically minded all of the adaptations and retrofit parts that need to be used to try to get the short 9mm cartridge to run in the 5.56mm receiver set. A lot of people assembling a 9mm AR for the first time don't understand this aspect of the platform and expect it to work perfectly as soon as the last pin is pushed in. Having to tune a gun is a foreign concept to many of these new adopers who may be familiar with the 5.56mm AR-15's very consistent degree of parts interchangability.

OP - I know you said you've pretty much decided on a Ruger PCC, but go take a look at my site if you want to give building a 9mm AR a try. It's pretty easy. After researching decades of people fixing and adjusting their 9mm AR's, I was able to deduce a simple but solid "recipe" for the AR platform to run 9mm reliably. My three 9mm AR's are now boringly reliable. Feedback is that everyone who has applied the "4 things to make (almost) any 9mm AR run 100%" article to their build has had the same result.

I don't make any income from my site, posts, or any links. I'm pretty much retired now and I do it strictly for fun. Feel free to send me questions, I'll do my best to help.

I'm not in Cali, but I'm a refugee from NY who moved out, so I completely understand what you all are going through with your "fins" and featureless builds. Hopefully that'll all get overturned soon.

[sigstroker]

There's a giant 9mm AR thread here, which is basically a bible for anyone that's building one. It's got pretty much all the problems one might face and how to solve them. FWIW I didn't run into any of them. Current production for uppers and lowers seems to be really good assuming you use ones that are known to be compatible with each other.

[Blowback9]

Originally Posted by sigstroker

There's a giant 9mm AR thread here, which is basically a bible for anyone that's building one. It's got pretty much all the problems one might face and how to solve them. FWIW I didn't run into any of them. Current production for uppers and lowers seems to be really good assuming you use ones that are known to be compatible with each other.

Thanks, I'll take a look. I have a feeling it'll be full of a lot of the same myths and misinformation I've already taken to task and debunked from Arfcom, but there may be a few useful nuggets! There's so much rumors and nonsense, from 11oz buffers being "too heavy" (wrong) to "9mm needs a strong spring" (very wrong), it's hard to get in front of it all.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by Blowback9

I think you meant you needed to adjust the "ejector". Whining? Hardly. I'm the author of Blowback9.com and the guy who wrote the article about the flawed design of the 9mm AR. I was pointing out to novices and the technically minded all of the adaptations and retrofit parts that need to be used to try to get the short 9mm cartridge to run in the 5.56mm receiver set. A lot of people assembling a 9mm AR for the first time don't understand this aspect of the platform and expect it to work perfectly as soon as the last pin is pushed in. Having to tune a gun is a foreign concept to many of these new adopers who may be familiar with the 5.56mm AR-15's very consistent degree of parts interchangability.

OP - I know you said you've pretty much decided on a Ruger PCC, but go take a look at my site if you want to give building a 9mm AR a try. It's pretty easy. After researching decades of people fixing and adjusting their 9mm AR's, I was able to deduce a simple but solid "recipe" for the AR platform to run 9mm reliably. My three 9mm AR's are now boringly reliable. Feedback is that everyone who has applied the "4 things to make (almost) any 9mm AR run 100%" article to their build has had the same result.

I don't make any income from my site, posts, or any links. I'm pretty much retired now and I do it strictly for fun. Feel free to send me questions, I'll do my best to help.

I'm not in Cali, but I'm a refugee from NY who moved out, so I completely understand what you all are going through with your "fins" and featureless builds. Hopefully that'll all get overturned soon.

Thanks for posting. Your article was an eye opener for me. As long as we are stuck with having to use awkward grips for "featureless" configuration, I think the Ruger is a better choice for me. If the AW is ever struck down for good or when I move to America, I will build an AR9 but for now, pass.