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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #201  
Old 09-28-2020, 11:20 AM
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Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is offline
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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
Fixed your thread title.

Arguing about who to vote for for President and the US Senate in California (and Oregon and Washington and Hawaii and all solidly blue states) is a waste of time. Hillary Clinton beat Trump in California by more than 4 MILLION votes in 2016. When Democrats say Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million votes in 2016, ALL of her winning margin came from California. All that counts are Electoral College votes, and Biden is going to win all of California's Electoral College votes just as the Democratic candidate did in 2016 and 2012 and 2008 and 2004 and 2000 and 1996 and 1992. No matter who anyone in this thread votes for for President, Biden is going to win California's electoral vote, so why get so hot and bothered by a meaningless vote for President? Vote for whoever you want to for President, or not at all in California. Now Arizona and Nevada, that's a different story. Those are potential battleground states so Presidential votes can make a difference. But not in California.
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Originally Posted by Double Phister View Post
Exactly. Why waste a presidential vote on R when you can send a message with L.

The remaining local votes can be anybody that's not a D or against anything that costs more money.
I've been hearing that approach for a long time now. NO message is being sent, or at least no one is listening for any messages.

It's a two horse race, and will remain so for the forseeable future.
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You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
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  #202  
Old 09-28-2020, 11:39 AM
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Until Trump is formally re-elected by the Electoral College, and has regained control of the House and held his current lead in the Senate, and has his latest nominee confirmed and on the Bench of the SCOTUS...we are still in a state of war with the Left. Do not, for one single second, let your guard down. Do not, for one single second, think that you or anyone you know can get lazy on election day and not vote. Do not, for one single second, think that the Left will not continue their assaults on America, with major efforts in 2022 and 2024 to get their Marxist agenda back on track. America must be saved every single day of our lives. That is our birthright and that is our burden. If anyone can't carry the weight, they should find another country to live in.
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  #203  
Old 09-28-2020, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
I understand why people vote Republican and those who vote for Trump as the better of two bad choices, but those of you who think Trump is actually a "good" president have drunk the cool-aid.
Based on what he actually accomplished, compared to his public persona, IMO, Trump is the best President in my lifetime, better than Reagan. And certainly better than any Democrat in my lifetime, which is not a stretch.

And I don't like kool-aid.
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  #204  
Old 09-28-2020, 12:13 PM
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And I'd argue any Republican president would have had similar accomplishments with both the House/Senate for three years, the Senate for all four, three SCOTUS vacancies, and huge list of judicial vacancies. Easy to "win" when you got a sweep in the governmental institutions.
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  #205  
Old 09-28-2020, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
And I'd argue any Republican president would have had similar accomplishments with both the House/Senate for three years, the Senate for all four, three SCOTUS vacancies, and huge list of judicial vacancies. Easy to "win" when you got a sweep in the governmental institutions.
You are totally ignoring the resistance in the Senate for many of his policies, the resistance within the civil service ranks and the media. The resistance in the House of Representatives is unprecedented. You also ignore the fact that the democrats tendency to change the rules when they don't get their way politically is what gave him the opportunity for all his judicial victories when they eliminated the filibuster for non SCOTUS federal judicial appointments in 2013. True to form, they're talking about changing the rules again with regard to supreme court appointments and establishing terms now that they're not getting their way in this arena as well.

I would also argue that many republican presidents would have reacted with more compliance to the media / democrat onslaught that Trump has resisted from the day he announced.
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Last edited by OCEquestrian; 09-28-2020 at 12:39 PM..
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  #206  
Old 09-28-2020, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
And I'd argue any Republican president would have had similar accomplishments with both the House/Senate for three years, the Senate for all four, three SCOTUS vacancies, and huge list of judicial vacancies. Easy to "win" when you got a sweep in the governmental institutions.
House is for two years, not three years.

Having spent some time there and family worked in government service, nothing is easy in DC. Dealing with 335 Reps who think they should be Senator and 100 Senators who believe they should be President is a challenge under any circumstance.

Not being easy is the way the system was designed. Absent considerable agreement nothing gets done and that's the way it should be.
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  #207  
Old 09-28-2020, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
House is for two years, not three years.

Having spent some time there and family worked in government service, nothing is easy in DC. Dealing with 335 Reps who think they should be Senator and 100 Senators who believe they should be President is a challenge under any circumstance.

Not being easy is the way the system was designed. Absent considerable agreement nothing gets done and that's the way it should be.
Good catch on House years.

My point still stands. Does Trump bring some kind of special sauce that makes him an outstanding president over another mainstream Republican? It's a hypothetical, but I have a hard time seeing how that's possible. And that's ignoring the flip side, where there's definitely things Trump brings that harms America as an institution.

I get why people want Trump to win re-election, though to pretend he's some kind of outstanding statesman is delusional. It is possible to support a politician while also having both eyes open and honestly assessing. The unjustified descriptions I've read by some is almost cult like.

Now that this has gone solidly off-topic, I do support the OP claim that if gun owners want to preserve their 2A rights, voting Democrat is generally a disaster.
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  #208  
Old 09-28-2020, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
You are totally ignoring the resistance in the Senate for many of his policies, the resistance within the civil service ranks and the media. The resistance in the House of Representatives is unprecedented. You also ignore the fact that the democrats tendency to change the rules when they don't get their way politically is what gave him the opportunity for all his judicial victories when they eliminated the filibuster for non SCOTUS federal judicial appointments in 2013. True to form, they're talking about changing the rules again with regard to supreme court appointments and establishing terms now that they're not getting their way in this arena as well.

I would also argue that many republican presidents would have reacted with more compliance to the media / democrat onslaught that Trump has resisted from the day he announced.
Accurate assessment....

Also, Trump is the only President to call out the Mass Media’s constant spewing
of Fake News, exposing it for all to see, and they Hate him for it.

But many Americans now no longer blindly accept the Media’s Propaganda,
which is a Good for America.


Noble
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  #209  
Old 09-28-2020, 4:16 PM
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My point still stands. Does Trump bring some kind of special sauce that makes him an outstanding president over another mainstream Republican? It's a hypothetical, but I have a hard time seeing how that's possible. And that's ignoring the flip side, where there's definitely things Trump brings that harms America as an institution.

What has he done to "harm America as an institution"?

I get why people want Trump to win re-election, though to pretend he's some kind of outstanding statesman is delusional. It is possible to support a politician while also having both eyes open and honestly assessing. The unjustified descriptions I've read by some is almost cult like.

There is no doubt that Trump is obnoxious and rude but all New Yorkers are, especially the wealthy ones. When will people get it that he was elected because he wasn't a patrician east coast politician but a junk yard dog scrapper. Things have gone so far in one direction for so long, only a tough person willing to fight non stop 24/7 could survive and have any hope of success. As for statesmanship.. you dont consider the recent recognition of Israel by Bahrain and UAE to be worth noting? The new NA trade agreement? The stepping up of our NATO allies to their financial commitments?

Now that this has gone solidly off-topic, I do support the OP claim that if gun owners want to preserve their 2A rights, voting Democrat is generally a disaster.

I dont have to like the people who work for me as long as they do their jobs. This president is working for me on issues I consider important. Is he perfect on every issue for me? Hell no but the again no one could be. Obama worked against me on almost every issue he tackled. Clinton was not quite as bad. Biden Harris will work against me to an ever greater degree. Sooner more likely than later the damage to the Nation brought by the democrats and their ever more dominant socialist/leftist wing will be irreversible and then what will the we and the world be left with?
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Last edited by OCEquestrian; 09-28-2020 at 5:57 PM..
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  #210  
Old 09-28-2020, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Good catch on House years.

My point still stands. Does Trump bring some kind of special sauce that makes him an outstanding president over another mainstream Republican? It's a hypothetical, but I have a hard time seeing how that's possible. And that's ignoring the flip side, where there's definitely things Trump brings that harms America as an institution.

I get why people want Trump to win re-election, though to pretend he's some kind of outstanding statesman is delusional. It is possible to support a politician while also having both eyes open and honestly assessing. The unjustified descriptions I've read by some is almost cult like.

Now that this has gone solidly off-topic, I do support the OP claim that if gun owners want to preserve their 2A rights, voting Democrat is generally a disaster.
There are Republican politicians in my family going back to the Whig Party. And a Republican Party Chairman who took office just in time to try & save Hoover (and the country) from FDR. I grew up in DC because my father worked for Leverett Saltonstall before moving to the Bureau of Budget from 61 to 65. I grew up thinking Congress would ALWAYS be run by the Democrats and the Republicans, other than the occasional presidency, would always be polite losers. Throw in a little "if we agree with them they'll be nice" and that's the Republican Party from the days of Cabot Lodge and Taft, Willkie and Dewey, Charlie Halleck to Hugh Scott and Tom Foley and Bob Michel. With only a few exceptions, nearly 80 years of "2nd place is losing" & liking it.

Would Senator McCain or Governor Romney had won in 2008 or 2012 if they put on the gloves a bit? Not sure about McCain but Romney, after that 1st debate - I think yes.

So that "special sauce" - maybe it's a bit strong with this guy. I've said from day one that if the President channeled Ike a bit he'd be a lock to win. But whomever comes after him for the Republicans, I hope they learned a lesson. That what works with the "other side" is standing up for one's self, having some cojones and courage of conviction.

Baldwin and Chamberlain were nice. Churchill wasn't. I prefer Churchill.

BTW, not ALL New Yorkers are obnoxious. Just the ones who know they're not as good as Bostonians.
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  #211  
Old 09-28-2020, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
There are Republican politicians in my family going back to the Whig Party. And a Republican Party Chairman who took office just in time to try & save Hoover (and the country) from FDR. I grew up in DC because my father worked for Leverett Saltonstall before moving to the Bureau of Budget from 61 to 65. I grew up thinking Congress would ALWAYS be run by the Democrats and the Republicans, other than the occasional presidency, would always be polite losers. Throw in a little "if we agree with them they'll be nice" and that's the Republican Party from the days of Cabot Lodge and Taft, Willkie and Dewey, Charlie Halleck to Hugh Scott and Tom Foley and Bob Michel. With only a few exceptions, nearly 80 years of "2nd place is losing" & liking it.

Would Senator McCain or Governor Romney had won in 2008 or 2012 if they put on the gloves a bit? Not sure about McCain but Romney, after that 1st debate - I think yes.

So that "special sauce" - maybe it's a bit strong with this guy. I've said from day one that if the President channeled Ike a bit he'd be a lock to win. But whomever comes after him for the Republicans, I hope they learned a lesson. That what works with the "other side" is standing up for one's self, having some cojones and courage of conviction.

Baldwin and Chamberlain were nice. Churchill wasn't. I prefer Churchill.

BTW, not ALL New Yorkers are obnoxious. Just the ones who know they're not as good as Bostonians.
And if I recall correctly, you actually got to meet Senator Brooke in his
office, waiting with your father for a meeting he had with the Senator.

Mr Brooke was a WWII Vet who was awarded a Bronze Star and
became the first elected Black Senator for the state of Massachusetts.

Churchill could be a SOB, and often was, but he was the Right Person
to be in charge at that moment in History, and because of that, he
kept the Struggle for Freedom alive in the European Continent,

"until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and
might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.”



Noble
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  #212  
Old 09-28-2020, 9:56 PM
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And if I recall correctly, you actually got to meet Senator Brooke in his office, waiting with your father for a meeting he had with the Senator.

Mr Brooke was a WWII Vet who was awarded a Bronze Star and
became the first elected Black Senator for the state of Massachusetts.

Churchill could be a SOB, and often was, but he was the Right Person
to be in charge at that moment in History, and because of that, he
kept the Struggle for Freedom alive in the European Continent,

"until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and
might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.”



Noble
I guess I'm getting older - kind of forgotten about that, and of posting it. From what I recall, back then (mid-1950's to mid-1960's) the Senators and staff from the New England states would get together for regular meetings and work on mutual concerns. Probably doesn't happen much anymore.
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