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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#121
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My local FFL that I've been dealing always offers me a chance to pay the tax by ourself if we have a purchase from outside state FFL. All we need to do is sign a statement to do so.
Is this doable/legal to do so from the FFL standpoint? |
#125
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Probably not. Start at post #7 in this thread. There is some specific information starting there.
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Jim ![]() |
#126
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The BOE rules says that the FFL has to pay, so, no, it can not be done that way. I am pretty sure that it would not fly with the BOE and the FFL would still be in trouble.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#127
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No, it was not correct. The person giving the gift was responsible for paying sales tax, not you, if they gave it within CA.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#129
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Great, thanks kemasa. I'm still new & have a lot to learn. Special thanks to you & tenpercent that contributed a lot on this.
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#130
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There are strange issues with sales tax and gifts. If the gift is shipped from out of state, then sales tax would not be due. If the company brought it to CA, then they would owe the tax.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#131
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Ughhh These tax rules are a bigger pain than gun rules.
So I dont collect tax on prize guns? I only collect taxes on the upgrades? Ok, how about really expensive firearms that are delivered with an invoice with a value that is negated by an advertising payment? |
#132
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Here is a thread that may help. A "bartered" agreement does not relieve you from the tax, I don't believe.
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Jim ![]() |
#133
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You are correct about the sales tax issues being a bigger pain, especially when the laws don't change, but the BOE's view changes, such as when the you have a letter saying that sales tax should not be collected on private sales from out of state, then now gives bogus reasons as to why you have to collect sales tax. So far I have only talk of legal action with regards to this.
As said the BOE holds you responsible, even if you have false documents stating another price that was paid. It is not worth the risk, which is why I have a policy to stop the transfer in such cases, as well as saying that they lose all rights to the firearm (let them argue that in court). Personally, I would give an opportunity to correct the price and if it does not seem reasonable, I would not do the transfer and I would not ship it to another CA FFL since you would still be considered responsible for the sales tax. There is also the issue of shipping it back knowing that they will try this scam on another FFL. Correct, a barter is still subject to sales tax on the full value of the firearm, which can be difficult, so it is best to have an actual price.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#135
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I found some info from the BOE Faq.
Barters ( what I see in this invoice) 8.Are barters and exchanges taxable? Yes. The use of barter or exchanges is considered the same as making sales or purchases under the Sales and Use Tax Laws. The fair market value of the property or services received is normally the amount to which tax will apply. For example, assume that you are a retailer of electronic equipment and owe $500 for dental care. In place of cash, you provide a television set from your inventory as full payment. The transaction is considered a taxable sale, and you must report and pay tax based on the $500. No I need to find the prize specific info.. I do a lot of Glock prize transfers. Thanks Again!! |
#136
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How about:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/lawguides/busi...sutr/1670.html Quote:
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#137
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Jees I want to call my lawyer for a translation.
I think thats saying Glock is on the hook for the taxes becasue it's part of their gross reciepts. I never thought I was going to need a course in Latin to sell guns.. Thanks!! |
#138
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Yes, but if the person/company who gives the gift is outside of CA and it is shipped to CA, then it is a different issue and I don't think that sales tax is due. If the person/company brings the item to CA, then sales tax is due.
It is a mess.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#140
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The BOE response to what sales tax to collect on penny auction sites:
Quote:
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#141
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Update for sales tax from an out of state private party sale of a C&R handgun to a CA resident with a C&R FFL.
Quote:
BOE letter
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#142
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Thanks for the clarification.
5000% increase in California FFL03 applications in 3, 2, 1..... ![]()
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![]() Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#143
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But thanks for the info.
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Jim ![]() |
#144
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Actually, that is the words that was used in the response to me, that Federal law required that it go through a FFL, so it had to be taxed. It does not really make sense since Federal law has nothing to do with the CA sales tax law, but that is how they are demanding money. In the case of C&R handguns and C&R FFL holders, there is no Federal requirement, so that causes an issue, which the result is that it may be sales tax exempt (it is not unlimited).
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#145
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Other than this thread what can I show a dealer to keep from getting taxed? I purchased a firearm from gunbroker from a private party. I have a bill of sale, and the shipping is on a separate invoice. The FFL I'm using here demanded it be shipped from an FFL, and they're using that to say that they need to tax my purchase.
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#146
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Is the firearm a C&R handgun? Do you have a C&R FFL and CA DOJ COE? All modern firearms coming from out of state are subject to sales tax due to recent CA BOE changes. This includes the shipping (total cost with everything). The FFL can require that it be shipped from a FFL. It is not the law, but just the rules of the FFL. If you don't like it, then find another FFL. The sales tax has nothing to do with whether a FFL ships it or not, it has to do with the CA BOE. Firearms from inside CA are not subject to sales tax if it is coming from a private party, is an occasional sale and not coming from a business (as I understand it, a private party can use a FFL to ship it and that is not considered coming from a business). If all three are not true, then it is subject to sales tax.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#147
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2. Is is not a C&R, so as you stated being a modern handgun it is subject to tax. (So basically the beginning of this thread is no longer valid, which sucks. 3. I do have my 03 FFL, and COE, but that is a mute point.
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#148
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The BOE changed their view at the end of 2011, although the law did not change.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#149
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=74622
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. Last edited by tenpercentfirearms; 06-27-2012 at 10:04 AM.. |
#150
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I had a letter too and asked a question and was told that the old letter does not apply anymore.
So, you can keep using the old letter since they have not officially told you that it no longer applies and they should have a record that they sent it to you, but their recent letter could be viewed as a change and they might still hold you accountable for the sales tax money. Personally, I would collect the sales tax since it is not worth the risk. It would be nice to get someone to go after the BOE for this change of view.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#151
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It appears in the tax world, old letters don't mean much. It might be time to start collecting sales tax on all of my out of state transfers (except C&R).
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#152
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I suspect that the old letter would protect you, UNLESS it can be shown that you were informed of the new changes, but you can still have problems due to that. Part of the problem is that this forum can be used to show that you were informed of the change.
The BOE should be required to inform businesses of "changes", especially when the law does not change, only their view. I have to wonder if their view would be upheld since the law does not specify the things that they are claiming, but the bottom line is that the risk is not worth it. The whole thing is a mess.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#154
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So my FFL just received my Front Sight "free" gun offer that included an invoice showing an MSRP of $540. Am I required to pay sales tax even though it was a free offer and no purchase transaction took place?
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"Mandatory to grow old...Optional to grow up!" Ask me about a "Lifetime Membership" from Front Sight! |
#155
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As I understand it, it is a gift, which is not subject to sales tax. I think that Front Site has some documentation on that aspect that they can give to your FFL.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#156
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So what about intrafamilial transfers from out of state. They are a gift, but they would be taxable since the BOE considers me the retailer correct?
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#157
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Gifts are not taxable.
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![]() Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#158
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Gifts are taxable by the purchaser.
Quote:
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#159
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I previously asked the question with regards to sales tax for a gift coming from out of state and the BOE responded that CA sales tax was not due.
The buyer would be responsible for the sales tax where it was purchased. In the case of donations, such as for an event, sales tax would not be due UNLESS the item is personally delivered to CA. If it was shipped, then CA sales tax would not be due.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#160
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Soooo, after a few hours and the overwhemling desire to slam my head on my desk a few times, I have one question.
Example: I am shipped a gun for dros etc purchased by my customer from an out of state dealer. I really don't see the 'issue' that some dealers have with this. Takes 10 minutes to compare serial numbers/ check the roster/A&D it and pop it in my safe. Anyway... The above mentioned customer comes in for dros etc assuming the firearm is exactly what he expected etc. Now, I go to ring up his 'sale'. How do I show the invoiced price to tax? My thoughts: Put that gun in my system for the price he paid making it taxable, then discount that amount? I need to show in my system that he paid the tax but obviously I didn't take in those monies. or do I simply calculate the tax amount and enter it as an 'extra' charge? I agree with the majority here, this one issue regarding the BOE is more 'difficult' to interpret than our Cali gun laws. |
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