![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
How about the following scenarios:
1) A customer buys a used firearm from an out of state dealer either through an auction site, on-line store or mail order. 2) A customer buys a used firearm from another person who lives out of state. The seller uses an out of state FFL to handle the shipping to the CA FFL. Would tax be due on the purchase price? -G |
#42
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Jim ![]() |
#43
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I just received email from the CA BOE regarding the sales tax change.
This section is quite interesting in terms of the recent sales tax change: Quote:
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
I wonder if thaat means when you DROS it or pick up?
__________________
John The internet is like a 12 step group. Take what you need and leave the rest. |
#46
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Online is quite different and the mailman is a delivery service, not part of the sale.
The issue is the change of the tax rate, with respect to when it is started. In this case, it is the best interest of the customer since the tax rate is going down. It is when you pick it up, not when the DROS is submitted. BTW, I think it is a good thing to charge the reduced sales tax, although it is a pain to re-calculate everything, but consider the other way. If you bought a firearm when the tax was lower, but are forced to wait to pick it up so then you have to pay a higher sales tax which was not in effect when bought it, that is not right. Now, consider if you could pick it up the day before the tax rate went up, but then couldn't, so then suddenly you have to pay more, even if you paid for everything.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein Last edited by kemasa; 07-08-2011 at 3:53 PM.. |
#47
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
When the tax rate went up, if you already paid in full, I just paid the extra 1% and took it off the sales price. I didn't want anyone who paid in full to have to pay more. Since a sale is not complete until the goods are delivered, I will continue to add more long guns onto a DROS. Now the feds and the CA BOE agree with me! ![]()
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#48
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Well, it really does not matter what the Feds consider a transaction to be since it is clearly different than the CA DOJ. Same is true with the CA BOE, so if you continue to add long guns onto a DROS, you are not following the law. Don't forget the 10 waiting period after the sale of a firearm.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#49
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
And how can you wait ten days if the transaction is not complete until delivery of goods? The firearms is not sold until delivery. Let's not muck up this thread though. You can read more about this here. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=425903
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
A few question:
Are you guys collecting tax on the amount of your dealer fee for out of state transfers? From reading the regs, this appears to be required. How about for those dealers doing single shot conversions? Would the rental charge for the conversion kit be taxable? . . .
__________________
![]() Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ Last edited by EBR Works; 08-15-2011 at 7:02 AM.. |
#51
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Quote:
We should hash this out.
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#52
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I have a specific situation that I am wondering about. If I purchase a USED gun from someone that is out of state, he is a private FFL holder that runs his business from his home. But he mentioned that this is from his private collection. Would it depend on how he sells it? If he ships it as a FFL dealer would I have to pay use tax then (even if it's a USED gun)? If he ships as a private party, then I'm guessing I would not have to pay use tax? Should I clarify this with the seller first? Or will it not matter since it's used?
__________________
Various Ammo for sale! (Including 300weatherby mag!) |
#53
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Then take that document to the transfer dealer and ask them if that is acceptable. If they say no and they can't give you a good reason why, find a new transfer dealer. I'd accept it. I'll let the BOE grill you and the seller. I did my part.
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#54
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Did everyone see this thread?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=466199 Don Gussler is a well know transfer dealer in San Diego. A great guy to send transfers to. Don just went through an audit (I confirmed he went through an audit directly with him, but didn't get a ton of details as it isn't my business) and according to this post... Quote:
If you are not collecting sales tax on transfers, you really are taking a huge risk. This isn't about us competing with each other. I could care less if you are a dealer who doesn't collect taxes on transfers and get all of my transfer business. I like selling my own inventory more. This is about not getting reamed by the BOE and being stuck with your customer's sales tax liability. Protect yourself fellow dealers.
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#55
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
__________________
Various Ammo for sale! (Including 300weatherby mag!) |
#56
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
What about shipping charges? If I charge a client for shipping either on an inbound order or outbound to his transfer FFL, is this taxable?
. . ..
__________________
![]() Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#57
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Quote:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqpurch.htm#10 Quote:
If the firearm is coming in on a transfer, if the shipping is invoiced, I don't include it in the transfer sales tax calculations.
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. Last edited by tenpercentfirearms; 08-15-2011 at 11:45 AM.. |
#58
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
You have to be a friggin' lawyer just to try and make a buck in this state!
![]()
__________________
WWW.SANTACRUZARMORY.COM |
#59
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Thanks Wes......I think
![]()
__________________
![]() Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#60
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
One thing to remember is that if you sell a firearm to another CA FFL, YOU are responsible for the sales tax on their transfer fee even though you don't know what it is.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
So if I buy a used gun from a retail shop and it was transferred to a local dealer, but from a dealer, am I supposed to be paying sales tax on it or how would that work. Can I pay it as a use tax at the end of the year or should it be upfront to the FFL?
|
#62
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
The FFL is required to collect the sales tax unless the place you bought it from has a presence in CA, in which case that FFL is required to collect the sales tax on the firearm, as well as on the transfer fee of the local FFL. The exception is if the firearm is a private sale, an occasional sale and it is not coming from a business, as long as the FFL does not get involved with the price or finding the buyer.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#63
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
If you bought the firearm from a retailer out of state, then the CA gun shop receiving the firearm must pay sales tax on the purchase price of the firearm and the transfer fee. Not all dealers collect the sales tax from their customers. A FFL does not have to collect the tax; however, the FFL must pay the tax. So if a dealer gets audited and did not pay the tax, they are going to have to pay some hefty fines and back taxes. I choose to collect the sales tax since I have to pay it. I don't enjoy paying other people's taxes for them, though some dealers might. If you did not pay the sales tax to a dealer, then in theory you should pay the Use Tax at the end of the year. However, you would have a solid argument that you were not liable for the Use Tax as the FFL was the retailer and they should pay the Sales Tax for you as the retailer of the firearm. So if the BOE audits a gun shop and then goes to the customer and asks if you paid the Use Tax, the proper answer is "No and I don't have to. The retailer is responsible for paying sales tax on that CA retail transaction, not me." If the BOE claimed it didn't get paid, remind them the retailer is responsible for collecting and paying Sales Tax, not the consumer. Any Sales Tax the dealer failed to collect is the dealer's fault as they still owe the Sales Tax. And that there dealers is why you would be foolish not to collect and pay sales tax on retail firearms transactions.
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. Last edited by tenpercentfirearms; 03-23-2012 at 5:56 AM.. |
#65
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
It is honestly not a big deal. Collecting sales tax on your out of state transfer is really, really simple. I am not sure why some people make it out to be such a big deal.
__________________
www.tenpercentfirearms.com is now closed. It was a nice run while it lasted. |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Because we're taxed enough already. T.E.A. party! 35% out of each paycheck, 8.5 percent on anything I buy and another 8.5% on a private party transfer. Its getting ****ing ridiculous. When do we say enough is enough.
|
#67
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
The actual collecting of the sales tax is not a big deal, it is knowing when to collect the sales tax and all the issues which is a real pain.
I also agree that we are taxed far too much already. They take it bit by bit until you have nothing left, but that does not mean that I am going to violate the law for someone else, especially when I would be taking all the risk and getting nothing out of it.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Totally understand. I feel for you guys and the crap you have to go through. I'm just a rule pusher and will push till the ends of all possible ends. Not trying to come off like a jerk, just a penny pinching tight wad that wants to keep all the money I possibly make!
![]() |
#69
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I heard on the radio today about how the boe might exempt walmart.com as their vendor cns? Is based out of state. How is that different? On phone can't link story easily
__________________
![]() Quote:
|
#70
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
The Walmart issue is whether they have to collect it from their website when the items actually come from another company or whether the person owes it on their income tax return. It is not whether sales tax is due or not and firearms are different as well.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Will one of you senior members help summarize my confusion?
It seems we might collect tax under three different categories: 1) The firearm 2) The FFL transfer fees we add on to the state fee(NOT CA DOJ DROS) 3) handling fees (for the part that exceeds the actual cost of shipping) Do I have the categories correct? Any to add? Next seems to be the debate or confusion is on when we collect tax. The “when” seems to be spelled out on all the threads and is found in other past posts. I haven't completely grasped it yet, but I'll keep reading. When we collect tax, are all three categories always taxed (i.e firearm, FFL fee, & handling fee)? When we don’t collect tax, does that include all three categories (i.e firearm, FFL fee, & handling fee), or just the firearm? I have no heartburn collecting tax. I need to do what the BOE requires, but I am confused, even after reading this long post. I just want to make sure I do it when it's required and don't do it when its not required. No big deal |
#72
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
how is this different than an out of state inbound transfer?
__________________
![]() Quote:
|
#73
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
The exception is really not an exception, but one in which you can be nice to another FFL and keep them out of trouble, but that you should be aware of. If the firearm is purchased from a CA business, then that business is required to collect the sales tax on the transfer fee of the FFL transfer dealer (assuming it was shipped from the seller to another FFL). The problem is that the seller FFL does not know what the transfer FFL charges, but is still responsible for collecting the sales tax. So, while it might not be correct, I collect the sales tax on the transfer fee if CA sales tax was collected by another CA FFL. It is required to be collected, so my collecting the sales tax protects the other FFL, at least for the items that I transfer for them. Because a firearm has to go through a CA business, the FFL, and as I said, it is not about whether the tax is owed or not, it is who and how it is collected.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#74
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
I guess what I am trying to say kemasa, and not argumentatively whatsoever, just for my clarification, is walmart.com is a california based business, per the news/radio article. ...why should they get special treatment
__________________
![]() Quote:
|
#75
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
They should not get special treatment, but the claim seems to be that the company actually selling the product and shipping it does not have a CA presence. While the web site is Walmart and while Walmart has a CA presence, the real seller does not.
I think that the joke is that Walmart wants to force Amazon to collect sales tax, but they do not. That is typical of Walmart's business practices and due to such things I try to avoid Walmart as much as possible.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#76
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
The real problem of buying from a out of state private party is that a CA resident can not do a PPT in CA. The DOJ says the "sale" takes place in CA and on the DROS there is no place to do a out of state PPT. It is done as a Dealer Sale and as a sale it is taxable.
__________________
"Gun control is not about guns, it is about control" Mike's Custom Firearms 661-834-7836 http://mikescustomfirearms.com/ |
#77
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#78
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
Recent letter from the BOE regarding sales tax and FFLs:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...1&d=1320950409 Note: The DROS amount is incorrect.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
So what about consignment guns. I've had guys with consignment guns that I was under the impression it was working out to be more or less a PPT and the dealer takes 10% of the purchase price. 2 of the local dealers want tax on the whole thing and it just didn't sound right to me. I was wondering because some collect tax and some don't on that instance.
|
#80
|
||||
|
||||
![]()
In the case of a consignment, sales tax is due since the FFL is finding the buyer and/or negotiating the price of the firearm. It is not really a private sale as it is being done by the FFL. The BOE is quite clear on this aspect. In the case of a seller who talks to a FFL and the FFL finds the buyer, if the FFL does the PPT, they would be required to collect the sales tax, but it would also be hard to prove what actually happened.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |