PPT Fees for 2022?

[Spectre1995]

Foreword; I will not be "outing" any of the FFL's that may be referenced in this post. Given that I am now an FFL myself (not fully established, still working on DOJ certifications), this is to serve as a Q/A for educational purposes.


I was at a gun show this past weekend (San Bernardino) and was amazed at some of the prices I was seeing for PPT's. The lowest I could find was $75, but the average was $80 - $90. I was unable to find a buyer for two firearms I was selling at this show, because nobody wanted to pay ~$75 to transfer a $150 rifle, and I honestly don't blame them.

It was my understanding that the legal MAXIMUM that an FFL can charge for a PPT between two individuals in-person was $47.19 ($37.19 State Fee + $10 Dealer Fee), plus $10 per additional firearm on the same DROS entry. When I asked what the breakdown was, I was told that these additional ~$20 fees were for storage, paperwork, etc.

I know that there is no maximum fee that an FFL can charge for an out of state transfer to a CA resident, but it I'm under the impression that in-state is a maximum of $10 per firearm on top of state fees.




Since I am a new FFL, I would appreciate any input on the legalities surrounding this. I'm only going to charge the $47.19 (plus $10 per additional) when my license is fully established, but I don't want to call anyone out if I'm mistaken.

[9Cal_OC]

What you stated is correct. They cannot charge more than the set $47.19.

However, DOJ doesn’t seem to hammer down on FFLs that charge more. So it’s up to the individuals to either pay up or find another FFL

[Djantlive]

Another reason people don’t go the gun show these days

[Spectre1995]

Well, rest assured that when I get my FFL up and running, I'll charge only what's legally permissible, even at gun shows.

Additional storage fees will only occur after the 11th day of the 10 day waiting period. I believe that's reasonable - anything more is just absurd.

[Nardo1895]

Its pretty silly that the same state that thinks nothing of increasing the cost of doing business as a FFL year after year holds the PPT fee to the same $10 its been forever. No excuse for violating the law, but you'd think they might consider changing the fee.

[edgerly779]

Unless transfer involved then $47.19 plus lock if you do not have one or safe affidavit for long guns

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by Nardo1895

Its pretty silly that the same state that thinks nothing of increasing the cost of doing business as a FFL year after year holds the PPT fee to the same $10 its been forever. No excuse for violating the law, but you'd think they might consider changing the fee.

Don’t forget, the FFLs in that time period were for PPTs out of greed. And look at how that went.

Look at us now. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

[kingransom]

Perhaps instead of outing any particular ffl, you contact the company that put on the gun show and let them know what's going on. Let them know that in the future that any participating FFL must adhere to the law otherwise they should not be able to have a booth at the show.

[edgerly779]

^ Great advice.

[California_Deplorable]

A lot of FFLs are charging an extra fee for PPTs calling it "storage", "processing", whatever.

CADOJ doesnt seem to care. I guess their position is the less firearms transfers the better. If CADOJ had their way, there would be no private firearms ownership whatsoever let alone a process to conduct legal transfers.

[Tyke8319]

Does anybody know the date the $10.00 PPT fee was signed into law?

I'm going to contact my state legislator and see what can be done, if anything, top up the fee amount.

[jrara]

Like it was mentioned, FFLs can charge whatever they want as a "processing fee" or a "storage fee"

DOJ doesnt care as long its not labeled as a "State Mandatory Fee"

They will only have issues if the extra fees were charged/labeled as a state required fee.

Some other FFLs might need to charge out necessity to keep the lights on, pay staff, etc.

I have encountered FFLs that avoid doing PPT by saying "The safe is full"

[taperxz]

If you’re trying to do a PPT at a gun show, perhaps they’re charging to transport the gun to their store?

Who does CA PPTs at gun shows ???? Why?

[sass2924]

Our shop was at the show this weekend and used a dealer there to transfer guns that people did not want to come into our shop to pickup. He was charging $40 for a dealer transfer which is very reasonable. He said that people were giving him a hard time for charging so much.

[Spectre1995]

Originally Posted by sass2924

Our shop was at the show this weekend and used a dealer there to transfer guns that people did not want to come into our shop to pickup. He was charging $40 for a dealer transfer which is very reasonable. He said that people were giving him a hard time for charging so much.

I assume that $40 was a dealer to dealer fee, then the customer paid the state transfer fee at their location?

[Tyke8319]

Originally Posted by sass2924

Our shop was at the show this weekend and used a dealer there to transfer guns that people did not want to come into our shop to pickup. He was charging $40 for a dealer transfer which is very reasonable. He said that people were giving him a hard time for charging so much.

How can the dealer charge $40.00 when the max is $10.00 for a PPT plus $37.19 to the state???

[sass2924]

" He was charging $40 for a dealer transfer"

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

A lot of FFLs are charging an extra fee for PPTs calling it "storage", "processing", whatever.

CADOJ doesnt seem to care. I guess their position is the less firearms transfers the better. If CADOJ had their way, there would be no private firearms ownership whatsoever let alone a process to conduct legal transfers.

Originally Posted by jrara

Like it was mentioned, FFLs can charge whatever they want as a "processing fee" or a "storage fee"

DOJ doesnt care as long its not labeled as a "State Mandatory Fee"

They will only have issues if the extra fees were charged/labeled as a state required fee.

Some other FFLs might need to charge out necessity to keep the lights on, pay staff, etc.

I have encountered FFLs that avoid doing PPT by saying "The safe is full"

As long as the CA FFL dealer does not misstate their "processing fee" or "storage fee" as a Gov mandated fee, then it is allowed under CA laws. [PC 26880]



Penal Code 26880
A licensee shall not misstate the amount of fees charged by a governmental agency pursuant to Section 12806, Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050), and Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6.

[SilveradoColt21]

Originally Posted by Tyke8319

How can the dealer charge $40.00 when the max is $10.00 for a PPT plus $37.19 to the state???

Dealer transfer means from FFL to FFL, such as when I want a gun that is on the roster but not near me I can therefore tell the seller to drop the gun off at his FFL and then they ship it to my FFL in my area, said receiving dealer then charges me $50 on top of the standard $37.19. The dealer transfer fee is not regulated however as I have heard some FFL's charge $300 to just do the transfer .

[Rudolf the Red]

Originally Posted by Spectre1995

Well, rest assured that when I get my FFL up and running, I'll charge only what's legally permissible, even at gun shows.

Additional storage fees will only occur after the 11th day of the 10 day waiting period. I believe that's reasonable - anything more is just absurd.

They have 20 days to pick up. Charging a fee starting on the 11th day is pretty ruthless. I recommend against doing that unless you intend on doing it for all transfers and sales. Never heard of anyone doing that and if you want repeat customers, I recommend not doing it at all. If they skip the DROS then you can play games.

[VO3434]

Does anyone know of an FFL in the San Fernando Valley area that can do a PPT for a handgun? I am having a hard time finding a good place. Thanks

[Nardo1895]

Originally Posted by Rudolf the Red

They have 20 days to pick up. Charging a fee starting on the 11th day is pretty ruthless. I recommend against doing that unless you intend on doing it for all transfers and sales. Never heard of anyone doing that and if you want repeat customers, I recommend not doing it at all. If they skip the DROS then you can play games.

Well said

[NateTheNewbie]

The hard fact is that most FFL's are running small, low-margin businesses. Whether it's structured as a separate 'service fee' or whatever, they are trying to keep the lights on and employees paid.

If you think you can start a business doing PPT's for $47 then I say go for it! If you're successful, it will drive prices down across your area. Tell us how it works out!

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by NateTheNewbie

The hard fact is that most FFL's are running small, low-margin businesses. Whether it's structured as a separate 'service fee' or whatever, they are trying to keep the lights on and employees paid.

If you think you can start a business doing PPT's for $47 then I say go for it! If you're successful, it will drive prices down across your area. Tell us how it works out!

Flip side of that though is people that go into the business doing this and are aware of what it costs compared to the profit made, then why do it? The state doesn’t make it any easier with all the licenses and insurance etc. there’s other businesses than can be opened where you can set your prices as you see fit.

Not saying I don’t want more FFLs, but when you obtain the licensure, then you’re agreeing to following both Fed and CA laws, as arbitrary as they may seem.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

Flip side of that though is people that go into the business doing this and are aware of what it costs compared to the profit made, then why do it? The state doesn’t make it any easier with all the licenses and insurance etc. there’s other businesses than can be opened where you can set your prices as you see fit.

Not saying I don’t want more FFLs, but when you obtain the licensure, then you’re agreeing to following both Fed and CA laws, as arbitrary as they may seem.

So, you're all for regulating businesses and price controls in those businesses? Thats communisim you know.

The state does this to help drive people away from opening gun stores by doing this stuff. They don't even allow FFL's to at least get the fee raised for incomes of employees afte the STATE raised the minimum wage.

Do you ever tip your FFL for doing the PPT?

[9Cal_OC]

Originally Posted by taperxz

So, you're all for regulating businesses and price controls in those businesses? Thats communisim you know.

The state does this to help drive people away from opening gun stores by doing this stuff. They don't even allow FFL's to at least get the fee raised for incomes of employees afte the STATE raised the minimum wage.

Do you ever tip your FFL for doing the PPT?

Les we forget, the only reason we have PPTs in this state was that some of the FFLs at the time supported the legislation to handle the transactions in thinking it would bring more people through their doors. They supported the $10 fee (which adjusted for inflation, was worth it to them then) and to process the transactions. PPTs weren’t regulated until 90s. We as consumers would agree that the FFL shouldn’t even be part of the PPT process (ala Free State), yet here we are.

PPTs aren’t any FFLs money maker, we all know that.

And I do support my local FFLs when I PPT as I buy other guns and ammo from them. I usually only PPT at those I have a relationship with.

[painkiller]

I had the gun range in sac charge me 80 for a ppt last year,pretty much had me by the balls as the G43 i was buying was cheap!they had some bs excuse when i said what happened to state mandated fees

[Tyke8319]

Originally Posted by painkiller

I had the gun range in sac charge me 80 for a ppt last year,pretty much had me by the balls as the G43 i was buying was cheap!they had some bs excuse when i said what happened to state mandated fees

That really doesn't say much. perhaps you should have posted why you were charged the $80.00 and maybe that could be addressed.

[kingransom]

Painkiller...were you and the other party in the store at the same time or did the FFL receive the firearm from an outside source.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

Les we forget, the only reason we have PPTs in this state was that some of the FFLs at the time supported the legislation to handle the transactions in thinking it would bring more people through their doors. They supported the $10 fee (which adjusted for inflation, was worth it to them then) and to process the transactions. PPTs weren’t regulated until 90s. We as consumers would agree that the FFL shouldn’t even be part of the PPT process (ala Free State), yet here we are.

PPTs aren’t any FFLs money maker, we all know that.

And I do support my local FFLs when I PPT as I buy other guns and ammo from them. I usually only PPT at those I have a relationship with.

You’re an exception to the rule. If a guy in NorCal wants to sell to a guy in Central Cal, they usually split the difference and meet in the middle. No ammo purchase, no stuff on the wall, cry about the lock and never come back.

[Spectre1995]

Originally Posted by Rudolf the Red

They have 20 days to pick up. Charging a fee starting on the 11th day is pretty ruthless. I recommend against doing that unless you intend on doing it for all transfers and sales. Never heard of anyone doing that and if you want repeat customers, I recommend not doing it at all. If they skip the DROS then you can play games.

That makes sense. Like I said - I'm a VERY new FFL to the party, but 20 days is reasonable. I figure most everyone would want their gun immediately