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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#1
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How would I handle this. For example a LEO comes into my shop and wants to sell me his off roster Glock 17 gen 5. So the gun would be a CA registered used off roster handgun. The only way I see to DROS the gun to a non-exempt person would be a PPT. Would I have to do a PPT to myself (costing me a DROS fee)? It would then not be on my A&D book.
Any thoughts on this. I called the DROS hotline and got a newbie (who was very nice) but no help. Merry Christmas everyone! Robert |
#2
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I suggest you get a 2nd hand license so that you could consign the off roster handgun. ![]() |
#4
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Alot of shops that have the consignment license will purchase the off roster handguns but put them on consignment process and give the seller their money. Seller is happy and the gun is re sold to anyone interested.
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#5
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You cannot just walk into a gun store and buy an off roster firearm unless you're exempt from the roster. If you could nobody would be selling sig365s on cal guns for $1,800 and getting it over and over and over. You would have to be law enforcement or exempt from the roster due to another position of yours in order to be able to walk in and buy an off roster firearm. You could do a private party transfer but both parties would have to be present in front of the FFL
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#7
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#8
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At least once here also, at a shop that really knows their stuff.
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There are some people that it's just not worth engaging. It's a muzzle BRAKE, not a muzzle break. Or is your muzzle tired? |
#9
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Not all gun dealers get licensed because it’s more red tape or they don’t have the space or clientele to bother with it. Most people end up doing PPT’s to avoid giving the store their cut in the deal. |
#11
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ETA: they also get the paperwork done in an efficient manner.
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There are some people that it's just not worth engaging. It's a muzzle BRAKE, not a muzzle break. Or is your muzzle tired? Last edited by eaglemike; 12-24-2022 at 5:49 PM.. |
#12
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You can say whatever you want but you’re way off topic for the discussion. You just don’t understand what’s being discussed is all
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#13
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I just agreed with him and said I'd done the same thing and had a good experience. You took offense. Goodness gracious.
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There are some people that it's just not worth engaging. It's a muzzle BRAKE, not a muzzle break. Or is your muzzle tired? Last edited by eaglemike; 12-24-2022 at 10:10 PM.. |
#14
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#15
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Zero offense taken. Not at all. I’m being strictly technical
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#16
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But, ya! I always tell customers that consigning is like trading your car in. You don’t have the hassle of no shows and tire kickers but you do pay us for this service. We also do direct buys of Rostered guns and long guns but a direct buy is going to pay out less since we give you cash on the spot and take the risk on the gun. |
#17
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This guy says it can't be done. That's what I was originally responding to.
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#18
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Well, he did say PPT was ok though. He just didn’t know that both parties don’t need to be present and that a consignment is really just a PPT
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#19
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I should have clarified my original statement. Yes you can walk in and buy a consignment gun that is off roster no problem. But what calgunner Benjamin said was "Alot of shops that have the consignment license will purchase the off roster handguns but put them on consignment process and give the seller their money. Seller is happy and the gun is re sold to anyone interested"
By purchasing the gun from the seller, that FFL now owns the gun and cannot sell it to anybody unless they are exempt from the roster. What he posted and suggested is illegal to do. An FFL just can't give the money to a consigner ahead of time as that gun would then be property of the FFL and and not the consigner, therefore being held to a different set of rules |
#20
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__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#21
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I have seen another gun shop where the owner personally buys the off roster for himself, than after buying the off roster guns "decides" he doesn't want them and re-sell to anyone at the store. I have traveled a lot to purchase guns in the last few years. I have noticed that the understanding of gun laws are night and day between shops and areas. Central and Northern California usually are the areas that gun transactions are the easiest to do. The Bay Area and Southern California are in their own different worlds when it comes to gun laws and transactions. |
#22
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#23
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What are the differences in CA gun laws in different areas of the state? Except for a few local laws, I haven't found any differences I've only purchased firearms between Chico and Orange County, including the Bay Area, Sac, the central valley, the IE and coastal areas from SLO to OC.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#24
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If the new buyer flunked the background for purchase of the gun it would just go back into the consignment of the shop to be re-sold. The consignment owner is not the owner of the gun at this point. In fact, if you were the owner that put the gun into the consignment system you would probably never know what happened with the gun. Any time your a business your open to lawsuits. What would the owner of the consigned gun claim against the gun store be? The owner was paid the money, per the consignment contract, gun was put into consignment system. As far as I am aware of there is nothing in the section codes that say that consignment guns can't be pre-paid. All someone making an issue over this would do is cause people to have to wait on the guns to be sold in the future. -- As to other comment - interpretation of the gun laws / rules are different based on areas in my experience. Major things being: 01. Many gun shops believe that they only have to do 1 private party transfer of firearms per customer / per day. Very hard to find a shop in the bay area that will transfer 3-4 guns at once. 02. In the central valley area, most shops allow the safe affidavit to be used instead of purchasing gun locks. Even had Turners in Roseville, Ca allowed the affidavit. Just about every shop I have ever done business with in Southern California or the Bay Area have required me to purchase gun locks for each gun. They won't process transfer without gun locks. 03. Ran into this mostly in the bay area with shops charging more than $47.19 for private party transfers. Just last Saturday I was charged and on my receipt $40 ppt labor charge. I have run into this in Sacramento before also. It's been going on long enough that if DOJ cared they would be involved in it by now. 04. Had a gun shop in Southern California refuse to allow my concealed weapons permit issued by a police department to be used instead of the gun safety card. 05. Had a gun shop in Bay Area allow the concealed weapons permit as in place of my gun safety guard, but even though it had my address and everything still required me to use my vehicle registration for the secondary address. 06. I have had 3 shops till me a certain weapon is off roster, had 2 other shops say that they other shops didn't know what they were talking about and both allowed me to purchase and ship in certain weapon. That's just to name the major ones I have ran into, there is nothing uniform across the board that is standard in every shop across California. Seems like different regions are more strict than others. Maybe because different regions have different doj / atf reps? The one thing I know when purchasing and traveling to different gun shops I know to always be ready for some new different run around. |
#25
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Now to show you the actual LAW about immediately returning a firearm to a seller. Note, there is NO 10 day wait or requirement to reDROS in the LAW IF anyone tells you otherwise, they are just wrong. Here's the applicable law: Quote:
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#26
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With consignments we are required to DROS it back to the consignor complete with 4473 and a 10 day wait. Its actually in the drop down in the DES |
#27
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Thanks for the correction. Do you know of any LAW that requires such? Or, is it just moe underground regulations from DOJ?
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#29
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The part that requires DROS for consignment PPTs which are returned to the transferor.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#30
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"Pawn/Consignment Handgun Redemption"
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#31
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I understand that but, why is it there? Is it actual law or just underground regulations?
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#32
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"Bureau of Firearms Dealer Report of Firearm Acquisition" Below that has a unique acquisition transaction number. Where the person signs it is called seller / transaction signature with "I certify under penalty of perjury that to my knowledge and belief the information above is true and complete and I am the owner, or have the authority of the owner, to sell or pledge the property." So I am assuming this is a transfer release of the firearms into the custody and control of the second hand firearms shop. Which is why I am assuming that if the owner claims the firearm back they have to dros it to get a unique number again to put back into the consigners name. |
#33
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It could be months before that gun leaves the store in some cases so in order to get it back the state mandates a full DROS and 10 wait. With a consignment contract, we take actual possession of the gun via contract. Basicallly, its the stores but not. Thats why we have to collect sales tax on the purchase of a consignment. I think the state just looks at the transfer and consigment contracts differently. A regular PPT we don't really take a legal possession of it other than as a state agent. |
#34
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This is what I'm asking about. Does the state just decide to treat them differently or, is there actual law to support what the state is requiring for consignments?
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() KM6WLV |
#35
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Yes, the law that says any transfer between an FFL and a customer must have a background check performed. Nationally, its the same, a background check must be performed.
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