CA DOJ Leak of CCW and Firearm Purchaser PII

[JingleDingle]

Are we not allowed to discuss this here to avoid publicizing it, or can I simply not find the thread on it?

[bigdaddyz1776]

Here is the Reddit thread from r/CAguns on it.

Attorney General Bonta Releases New Firearms Data to Increase Transparency and Information Sharing

[scootle]

Originally Posted by bigdaddyz1776

Here is the Reddit thread from r/CAguns on it.

Attorney General Bonta Releases New Firearms Data to Increase Transparency and Information Sharing

I'm honestly surprised that there isn't more discussion about this huge (intentional) breach of citizen PII today.

After the CA DOJ site went down for a few hours, some friends were again able to access it and the CCW PII was *still* available in the publicly downloadable database. This was a good 6-8 hours since the Reddit thread had claimed the site was shut down.

Something horribly awry is afoot here.... where are the lawyers when we need them?

[Betfair39]

Originally Posted by scootle

I'm honestly surprised that there isn't more discussion about this huge (intentional) breach of citizen PII today.

After the CA DOJ site went down for a few hours, some friends were again able to access it and the CCW PII was *still* available in the publicly downloadable database. This was a good 6-8 hours since the Reddit thread had claimed the site was shut down.

Something horribly awry is afoot here.... where are the lawyers when we need them?

They are sleeping

[scootle]

Originally Posted by Betfair39

They are sleeping

Well I'm not sleeping and I just went and downloaded the data in question without issue..... it's all still available....

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by scootle

I'm honestly surprised that there isn't more discussion about this huge (intentional) breach of citizen PII today.

After the CA DOJ site went down for a few hours, some friends were again able to access it and the CCW PII was *still* available in the publicly downloadable database. This was a good 6-8 hours since the Reddit thread had claimed the site was shut down.

Something horribly awry is afoot here.... where are the lawyers when we need them?

I think releasing of ANY PII of the public is a punishable offense that someone needs to go to jail for, this is exactly why no one likes to provide their info for anything!

[cz74]

He's gonna leak it via that POS Wintemute at UC Davis, that would make it more "legitimate" for academic reasons.

[bigdaddyz1776]

Originally Posted by cz74

He's gonna leak it via that POS Wintemute at UC Davis, that would make it more "legitimate" for academic reasons.

I'm surprised their anti gun research centers is at UC Davis and not UC Berkeley.

While there are plenty of young liberals or progressives who bring up "Muh GOP racist because of the 1960s era Mulford Act" and other things that Clarence Thomas brought up.

Their parents are or they themselves grow up into gun control loving cold blooded corporate liberals like the current governor of California.

[zbrah]

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

[cz74]

Originally Posted by zbrah

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

Well if you offended your next door neighbor Karen, she's gonna order an "extreme threat" restraint against you without you even knowing about it and uniformed officers come knocking to take away ALL your guns. That is Bonta's real goal here. And even more, once you got "red flagged" even if you were proven innocent later, if there is no "disposition" in the records, I can see some POS assembly person propose a "red flagger map" like the one for molesters, search the map to see your local "red flaggers" near you.

[JingleDingle]

Originally Posted by cz74

Well if you offended your next door neighbor Karen, she's gonna order an "extreme threat" restraint against you without you even knowing about it and uniformed officers come knocking to take away ALL your guns. That is Bonta's real goal here.

There is also a way to look up any firearms purchases, so through either method you could theoretically become a robbery target. And the general mantra of Always Carry, Never Tell becomes a little more moot

[QuickDraw]

Someone needs to release the AG’s address as well as all politicians. You know for transparency and safety.

[M76]

Originally Posted by QuickDraw

Someone needs to release the AG’s address as well as all politicians. You know for transparency and safety.

those POS progs have 24/7 security, all on our dime...

[BAJ475]

Originally Posted by QuickDraw

Someone needs to release the AG’s address as well as all [Dem] politicians. You know for transparency and safety.

Second that!

[robertfchew]

Originally Posted by QuickDraw

Someone needs to release the AG’s address as well as all politicians. You know for transparency and safety.

I knew this sc ruling didn't go far enough. CCw licenses are an infringement to begin with. All this did was rile up the grabbers with no actual benefit to citizens stuck in communist states.

[Mendo223]

Originally Posted by QuickDraw

Someone needs to release the AG’s address as well as all politicians. You know for transparency and safety.

Somebody posted it on reddit, but i would caution against that rhetoric we need to be the bigger group here no matter how insane and out of control they are...

frankly, alot of LEO and special permit holders were most affected, they will be furious. what if some gang in LA or Oakland sees the home addresses of their local gang unit and most hated LEO...this is so ridiculously dangerous.

[lastinline]

Originally Posted by cz74

Well if you offended your next door neighbor Karen, she's gonna order an "extreme threat" restraint against you without you even knowing about it and uniformed officers come knocking to take away ALL your guns. That is Bonta's real goal here. And even more, once you got "red flagged" even if you were proven innocent later, if there is no "disposition" in the records, I can see some POS assembly person propose a "red flagger map" like the one for molesters, search the map to see your local "red flaggers" near you.

^^^^^^THIS, TOTALLY.
We all know that the democrat leftists are totally unhinged, and would very likely do such. I can easily see old liberal rags like the L.A. Times publishing all such data, in print and online, monthly, or whenever the head weeping buttcrack of the editorial pages feels the need to poop-smear some more citizens. Think of all the increased firearm thefts and robberies that will likely be carried out; it’s what they want. To bring harm to our families.

[keepitlow]

Originally Posted by cz74

Well if you offended your next door neighbor Karen, she's gonna order an "extreme threat" restraint against you without you even knowing about it and uniformed officers come knocking to take away ALL your guns. That is Bonta's real goal here. And even more, once you got "red flagged" even if you were proven innocent later, if there is no "disposition" in the records, I can see some POS assembly person propose a "red flagger map" like the one for molesters, search the map to see your local "red flaggers" near you.

Good summation.

[GetMeCoffee]

Start thinking now about how nice and understanding you can be to the person who calls. Remember - they are not the ones that did this. Telling them that their office is full of imbeciles will not accomplish anything. They may even make notes on your record about you being combative, making threats, etc. This could lead to trouble either through RFL or when you attempt to renew.

Secondly, remember that it could just as well be a scammer who obtained the list and is now asking for some other information (phishing) under the guise of being the DOJ or some other agency that wants to help.

I'd suggest just listening, say thank you and wish them a good day.

[SkyHawk]

Originally Posted by GetMeCoffee

Start thinking now about how nice and understanding you can be to the person who calls. Remember - they are not the ones that did this. Telling them that their office is full of imbeciles will not accomplish anything. They may even make notes on your record about you being combative, making threats, etc. This could lead to trouble either through RFL or when you attempt to renew.

Secondly, remember that it could just as well be a scammer who obtained the list and is now asking for some other information (phishing) under the guise of being the DOJ or some other agency that wants to help.

I'd suggest just listening, say thank you and wish them a good day.

I would also suggest that it is *very* unlikely DOJ is going to call anyone who is not a judge, lawmaker, or celebrity.

So if you do get a call from "DOJ", it could be a scammer, thief, or reporter. Divulge nothing over the phone.

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by SamsDX

By most accounts, the people who downloaded this information inside of the 12 hour period it was available seem to have an appreciation over its sensitivity and have refused to share it further. If someone here can't get someone to give it to them, what is the possibility that an anti-gun employer, family member, or activist would be able to get it?

Seriously, you are basing this on the response of the CG community??? IF this was done intentionally with malice the bad players were either given an advance copy or advance notice of when to copy. Just in out group without advance knowledge probably a hundred or more people downloaded at least partial date. I hope you are right, but I'm not holding me breath.

[OlderThanDirt]

People with identity protection will likely start getting notifications within the next week if the data shows up on the dark web. I would urge anyone getting a notification to start a new thread so this information doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I usually get these notices in the first week of the month. Disregard this suggestion if you are killed in a home invasion robbery before then.

[SamsDX]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

Seriously, you are basing this on the response of the CG community??? IF this was done intentionally with malice the bad players were either given an advance copy or advance notice of when to copy. Just in out group without advance knowledge probably a hundred or more people downloaded at least partial date. I hope you are right, but I'm not holding me breath.

No, not just the CG community. While the release of this dashboard was announced through a press release, the news of the vulnerability/availability to download the raw data broke primarily on enthusiast sites like this and a few select others. I looked in other places to see if any further details were available, but these were it. Yes, I definitely acknowledge that malicious actors could have, and likely downloaded the entire data set. Those who didn't have malicious intent but still downloaded it, seem to have some appreciation for the sensitivity of the data. If a malicious actor did get it, it seems like we haven't yet seen indications of it (by even more widespread dissemination, for example).

Originally Posted by MW-484

we will download it from a Torrent site, or 4chan or some burner account on Twitter. It will be had for ANYONE who wants it in the near future.

When/if that happens, you can get it there. And that would be the aforementioned indication that a malicious actor got it.

Either way, whether I know now or know when that happens, there's nothing I can do about it now other than sign up for their b$ credit monitoring service. (As an aside, with all of these data breaches where the invariable resolution is free credit monitoring services, one should never have to pay for that.)

[Squatch]

Originally Posted by cz74

Well if you offended your next door neighbor Karen, she's gonna order an "extreme threat" restraint against you without you even knowing about it and uniformed officers come knocking to take away ALL your guns. That is Bonta's real goal here. And even more, once you got "red flagged" even if you were proven innocent later, if there is no "disposition" in the records, I can see some POS assembly person propose a "red flagger map" like the one for molesters, search the map to see your local "red flaggers" near you.

And good luck getting those guns back in a timely manner. If at all.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Guninator]

Originally Posted by zbrah

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

Good god, are you serious?

[not4un]

Originally Posted by zbrah

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

Well criminals know you have guns and can just wait until you aren't home to go looking for such guns. Just one reason I can think of.

[jerdog3]

Originally Posted by zbrah

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

If you have to ask, then clearly you personally don't need to worry. My wife and I however would both lose our jobs if that list got into the hands of our employers. Not only that, I'm sure some of our kid's friends won't be allowed to come over for playdates.

This is a very big deal. I would like to find a pdf of the list and see what it says about me.

[VRWC]

I'd like to know as well. Someone who accessed data will post it publicly somewhere at some time. It's "out there".

[VRWC]

Originally Posted by zbrah

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

Reasons to worry:
1. ID Theft

2. Thieves, home invasion criminals knowing you own guns.

3. Acquaintances, neighbors who may be anti- 2A knowing you're a gun owner.

My top 3. Should be your top 3 as well.

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by VRWC

Reasons to worry:
1. ID Theft

2. Thieves, home invasion criminals knowing you own guns.

3. Acquaintances, neighbors who may be anti- 2A knowing you're a gun owner.

My top 3. Should be your top 3 as well.

For 1.. Other than the gun data, all the info is found online anyways for us normal people. Names, addresses, birth dates, work place, I've googled myself and all that is out there and more forever. One time I even found my Vette was listed as my car. We all of course often have to expose our DL number to tons of people as ID, even copies made for cell phone contracts and gun purchases.

BUT it puts us effectively on a list for people who hate us to decide to target us for ID theft.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

For 1.. Other than the gun data, all the info is found online anyways for us normal people. Names, addresses, birth dates, work place, I've googled myself and all that is out there and more forever. One time I even found my Vette was listed as my car. We all of course often have to expose our DL number to tons of people as ID, even copies made for cell phone contracts and gun purchases.

BUT it puts us effectively on a list for people who hate us to decide to target us for ID theft.

Doesn't matter. During a hearing for the AB-173 case, the state acknowledged that releasing this information would be criminal and any victims would be justified in seeking civil action against the state for doing so.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2022...permit-holders

"We acknowledge that the information is confidential. AB 173, I think, is quite clear that the information can’t be shared publicly. It’s our position that, if there is a disclosure, that those whose information is disclosed would have various remedies including – there might be criminal implications for someone who disclosed the information knowingly. There is civil remedies under various state laws. And so the information is confidential…"

[VRWC]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

For 1.. Other than the gun data, all the info is found online anyways for us normal people. Names, addresses, birth dates, work place, I've googled myself and all that is out there and more forever. One time I even found my Vette was listed as my car. We all of course often have to expose our DL number to tons of people as ID, even copies made for cell phone contracts and gun purchases.

BUT it puts us effectively on a list for people who hate us to decide to target us for ID theft.

Indeed it does (ID Theft). And also potential gun theft. IDd as CCW holder, obvious you own guns and ammunition. That's different than your CDL. MUCH different.

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by VRWC

Indeed it does (ID Theft). And also potential gun theft. IDd as CCW holder, obvious you own guns and ammunition. That's different than your CDL. MUCH different.

Oh yeah, figure who has the most guns they will have the most ammo. These reckless SOBs have not just endangered us but the general public with their obsession with gun control and endless harassing us.

[Teal&Powder]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

For 1.. Other than the gun data, all the info is found online anyways for us normal people. Names, addresses, birth dates, work place, I've googled myself and all that is out there and more forever. One time I even found my Vette was listed as my car. We all of course often have to expose our DL number to tons of people as ID, even copies made for cell phone contracts and gun purchases.

BUT it puts us effectively on a list for people who hate us to decide to target us for ID theft.

My actual physical address is not available online. Home is listed under a different name, unidentifiable to me. No mail received there. All mail sent to a pmb.

The ONLY place I have had to give my physical address was when purchasing guns and getting my ccw. Now because of this, my address is out there for others to find.

I am a property manager. I do not want any tenant knowing where I live. I do real estate sales, and advertise open houses. What better time to rob my home, when the bad guys know I'm out of the house!

[bruss01]

Originally Posted by zbrah

Honest question, why should I be worried that someone knows I am a LEGAL ccw carrier? other than the fact that my personal info was released to the public and potential identity theft?

If your employer is anti-gun, activist (many are) and finds out, you could find yourself in a bad situation at work... called in, talked to, maybe passed over or possibly terminated... CA is an at-will employment state. They can fire for any reason or for no reason at all.

If you have anti-gun friends or relatives, they can become stand-offish or hostile toward you. This can make a lot of family/friend activities "difficult". Your immediate family can suffer "guilt by association" ostracization such as your wife not getting invited to hen-parties and your kids not being allowed to play with other kids whose parents found out you own dirty filthy guns.

It makes you a target of theft by would-be burglars, and a target for harassment by random activists that live within driving distance of your home and have too much time on their hands.

For the judges and retired LEO's on the list, it gives their home address and personal deets to basically every bad guy they've ever put away. For people with stalkers it outs their current address and gives the stalker the advantage of surprise.

Karen and Red Flag laws - 'nuff said.

[SamsDX]

Originally Posted by bruss01

If your employer is anti-gun, activist (many are) and finds out, you could find yourself in a bad situation at work... called in, talked to, maybe passed over or possibly terminated... CA is an at-will employment state. They can fire for any reason or for no reason at all.

If you have anti-gun friends or relatives, they can become stand-offish or hostile toward you. This can make a lot of family/friend activities "difficult". Your immediate family can suffer "guilt by association" ostracization such as your wife not getting invited to hen-parties and your kids not being allowed to play with other kids whose parents found out you own dirty filthy guns.

It makes you a target of theft by would-be burglars, and a target for harassment by random activists that live within driving distance of your home and have too much time on their hands.

For the judges and retired LEO's on the list, it gives their home address and personal deets to basically every bad guy they've ever put away. For people with stalkers it outs their current address and gives them the advantage of surprise.

Karen and Red Flag laws - 'nuff said.

I don't mean to downplay the severity of this leak/breach/disclosure, because it's absolutely unconscionable for Bonta to have provided PII to the public and I'm absolutely incensed at the situation. It's still very early on from the initial disclosure so I would expect there to be further problems downstream, but at the moment, are these things probable? Possible, sure, but what do you think is the realistic likelihood?

By most accounts, the people who downloaded this information inside of the 12 hour period it was available seem to have an appreciation over its sensitivity and have refused to share it further. If someone here can't get someone to give it to them, what is the possibility that an anti-gun employer, family member, or activist would be able to get it?

All bets would be off if someone created a pinpoint map of all CCW licensees like a Megan's Law site, and I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the skills or wherewithal of an angry activist, but even for them it would seem like one step too far. I realize leftists have scraped January 6 location/post data from Parler to identify and create visualizations of people they deemed "insurrectionists," but I would expect that no legitimate gun control group would risk such a heavy hit to their reputation by publishing judges' and law enforcement officers' private home address information obtained from a dataset of questionable legality. To the extent they've done so in the past, it's always been through Freedom of Information Act (and equivalent State Sunshine statutes) requests, where the legitimacy and legality of the information was without question.

The theft concern would, of course, remain regardless of whether the information makes it out into the mainstream like through a mapping application. I wouldn't be able to figure out if this data is circulating around on the Dark Web, and so far I haven't heard of anyone saying that it is, and seems to be speculation, reasonable as it were. I think it would help our risk mitigation efforts if we had an idea of how widespread this data really is.

I realize it's unfair to casually dismiss concerns over "friends" ostracizing you, your spouse and your kids because it hurts an innocent part, but that would seem to more poorly reflect on them than anything else. They're fair weather friends of convenience at best, and they'll be out of your lives as soon as the kids get put into different classes. As I get older, I'm realizing I need to cut out BS people out of my life, and firearms ownership/CCW licensee status is as good of a filter as any. I don't cast judgment because I've been there, but perhaps it's this timidity in "letting our freak flag fly" that has led us to this point. If leftists can live unapologetically, why can't we?

[SkyHawk]

Originally Posted by tigerpan

thats why people paying for ccw insurance

What CCW plan covers red flag seizures?

Originally Posted by SamsDX

but at the moment, are these things probable? Possible, sure, but what do you think is the realistic likelihood?

All bets would be off if someone created a pinpoint map of all CCW licensees like a Megan's Law site, and I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the skills or wherewithal of an angry activist, but even for them it would seem like one step too far.

There are no depths too low for the left now. And it is fantasy to assume only friendlies obtained this data.

And the ramifications cannot be overstated. Victims of rape, stalkers, psycho-ex etc who have been issued CCW now have their address exposed to their attackers. Judges home addresses are now in the wind. It goes on and on...

[SharedShots]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

What CCW plan covers red flag seizures?



There are no depths too low for the left now. And it is fantasy to assume only friendlies obtained this data.

And the ramifications cannot be overstated. Victims of rape, stalkers, psycho-ex etc who have been issued CCW now have their address exposed to their attackers. Judges home addresses are now in the wind. It goes on and on...

And all that is exactly why no one who has the data should distribute it to anyone else. If someone leaves a door open that should be locked and someone knows about it, should they then run around telling others who might not know that the door was unlocked but they took everything out and here - take some too?

What is going on here (this thread - not your post)?



.

[michaelh1951]

Originally Posted by SamsDX

I don't mean to downplay the severity of this leak/breach/disclosure, because it's absolutely unconscionable for Bonta to have provided PII to the public and I'm absolutely incensed at the situation. It's still very early on from the initial disclosure so I would expect there to be further problems downstream, but at the moment, are these things probable? Possible, sure, but what do you think is the realistic likelihood?

By most accounts, the people who downloaded this information inside of the 12 hour period it was available seem to have an appreciation over its sensitivity and have refused to share it further. If someone here can't get someone to give it to them, what is the possibility that an anti-gun employer, family member, or activist would be able to get it?

All bets would be off if someone created a pinpoint map of all CCW licensees like a Megan's Law site, and I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the skills or wherewithal of an angry activist, but even for them it would seem like one step too far. I realize leftists have scraped January 6 location/post data from Parler to identify and create visualizations of people they deemed "insurrectionists," but I would expect that no legitimate gun control group would risk such a heavy hit to their reputation by publishing judges' and law enforcement officers' private home address information obtained from a dataset of questionable legality. To the extent they've done so in the past, it's always been through Freedom of Information Act (and equivalent State Sunshine statutes) requests, where the legitimacy and legality of the information was without question.

The theft concern would, of course, remain regardless of whether the information makes it out into the mainstream like through a mapping application. I wouldn't be able to figure out if this data is circulating around on the Dark Web, and so far I haven't heard of anyone saying that it is, and seems to be speculation, reasonable as it were. I think it would help our risk mitigation efforts if we had an idea of how widespread this data really is.

I realize it's unfair to casually dismiss concerns over "friends" ostracizing you, your spouse and your kids because it hurts an innocent part, but that would seem to more poorly reflect on them than anything else. They're fair weather friends of convenience at best, and they'll be out of your lives as soon as the kids get put into different classes. As I get older, I'm realizing I need to cut out BS people out of my life, and firearms ownership/CCW licensee status is as good of a filter as any. I don't cast judgment because I've been there, but perhaps it's this timidity in "letting our freak flag fly" that has led us to this point. If leftists can live unapologetically, why can't we?

I'm inclined to agree with you. Until/unless we start to hear about actual misuse of these data, I think it better to treat this as yet another reminder of how California is controlled by corrupt tyrants.

Hopefully Bonta's November opponent, Nathan Hochman, will have strength and integrity to use this mess as a tool to help defeat the corrupt AG

I don't know whether or not my name appears on this list, but I promise to contribute to legal action when it is undertaken.

[Kidster]

Originally Posted by RdSnake

DOJ should step up to the plate and inform those people affected. Just like any other breach of privacy incidents.

Originally Posted by SamsDX

I don't mean to downplay the severity of this leak/breach/disclosure, because it's absolutely unconscionable for Bonta to have provided PII to the public and I'm absolutely incensed at the situation. It's still very early on from the initial disclosure so I would expect there to be further problems downstream, but at the moment, are these things probable? Possible, sure, but what do you think is the realistic likelihood?

By most accounts, the people who downloaded this information inside of the 12 hour period it was available seem to have an appreciation over its sensitivity and have refused to share it further. If someone here can't get someone to give it to them, what is the possibility that an anti-gun employer, family member, or activist would be able to get it?

All bets would be off if someone created a pinpoint map of all CCW licensees like a Megan's Law site, and I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the skills or wherewithal of an angry activist, but even for them it would seem like one step too far. I realize leftists have scraped January 6 location/post data from Parler to identify and create visualizations of people they deemed "insurrectionists," but I would expect that no legitimate gun control group would risk such a heavy hit to their reputation by publishing judges' and law enforcement officers' private home address information obtained from a dataset of questionable legality. To the extent they've done so in the past, it's always been through Freedom of Information Act (and equivalent State Sunshine statutes) requests, where the legitimacy and legality of the information was without question.

The theft concern would, of course, remain regardless of whether the information makes it out into the mainstream like through a mapping application. I wouldn't be able to figure out if this data is circulating around on the Dark Web, and so far I haven't heard of anyone saying that it is, and seems to be speculation, reasonable as it were. I think it would help our risk mitigation efforts if we had an idea of how widespread this data really is.

I realize it's unfair to casually dismiss concerns over "friends" ostracizing you, your spouse and your kids because it hurts an innocent part, but that would seem to more poorly reflect on them than anything else. They're fair weather friends of convenience at best, and they'll be out of your lives as soon as the kids get put into different classes. As I get older, I'm realizing I need to cut out BS people out of my life, and firearms ownership/CCW licensee status is as good of a filter as any. I don't cast judgment because I've been there, but perhaps it's this timidity in "letting our freak flag fly" that has led us to this point. If leftists can live unapologetically, why can't we?

I can also agree and hopefully that is the case, but all it takes is one person to share this information and its all over (dark web)

I can guarantee you this, the CA DOJ is checking every single IP address that access that website during that time and which ones downloaded the file. So anyone that did they will find out very soon who they are.