CCW Insurance Comparison

[L84CABO]

There have been a couple postings about CCW insurance lately and I am also in the process of trying to figure out which company to go with. In the course of my research I stumbled on what I think is a pretty good comparison chart on the Virginia Citizens Defense League's website.

Note that I am not affiliated with any of these companies or the VCDL. I just thought some of you may also find this useful.


https://vcdl.org/Legal-Plans

[Big Jake]

USCCA and ccwsafe. Buy both. Nothing to discuss here. I have both and it is well worth the money to have them!

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

USCCA and ccwsafe. Buy both. Nothing to discuss here. I have both and it is well worth the money to have them!

Ok, so why both? What do they each give you that the other doesn't?

[bcoc2002]

I research the 3 majors for days, I feel the USCCA provides the best protection for the money. A couple of the best 2A lawyers in the OC Metro area are also part of the USCCA.

[LCU1670]

Join the ACLDN, Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.

[9mmContagion]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...9&postcount=12

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

Ok, so why both? What do they each give you that the other doesn't?

Because having both offers the highest coverage in case the unthinkable happens. Again, nothing to discuss here. Buy both and be done with it and please don't say that you can't afford both as you can't afford to not have both if you carry a firearm. Period, end of story!

[Jason_2111]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

Because having both offers the highest coverage in case the unthinkable happens. Again, nothing to discuss here. Buy both and be done with it and please don't say that you can't afford both as you can't afford to not have both if you carry a firearm. Period, end of story!

So if the bad thing happens, which one do you call? I mean, get bail from one, then the lawyer from another? How exactly would this work?

[Wizardofodd]

I'm wondering if a General liability policy on my Company would provide some type of coverage since I have to pay that anyway. Does anyone here have something like that? I know car dealers and those types of businesses have a bond and General policy as well.

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by Jason_2111

So if the bad thing happens, which one do you call? I mean, get bail from one, then the lawyer from another? How exactly would this work?

Call both!

[broadside]

I use CCW Safe. After a bunch of research and understanding how the system works with out of pocket costs, etc I went that route. They also offer civil liability in addition to the criminal defense.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

If you have unlimited resources then buying every single one you can find is ideal. I mean why stop at two?! However, most of us do not have unlimited resources. I know many people who responsibly carry who live paycheck to paycheck. I would rather them only have one insurance and spend more time training at the range.

We are all different. What works for me may not work for you. I have found the two best of the "big 3" are USCCA and CCWSafe. I would research those two (and honestly research NRA Carry Guard and the smaller/newer ones). You need to see what is best for you and your family.

I personally found that USCCA works best for me. However, please note that I also sell USCCA so I am likely biased. That doesn't mean it is bad, but just want to point out the potential bias.

[Big Jake]

Buy both or don't carry. Your freedom and not being financially ruined for life are worth more than a cup of Starbucks or whatever it is your vice is these days. PERIOD!

[CAL.BAR]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

Call both!

Yeah, and each will say the OTHER is primarily responsible and try to get out of giving you any money. These are insurance companies we are dealing with here.

[billped]

BigJake, most people here would appreciate your view a lot more if you provided a bit of logic. Thus far, we can summarize that as, "trust me", and we are a crowd that doesn't trust easily.

Answer questions such as:

* Why not just one? What does each do the other doesn't?
* What specifically do they do?
* Any "objective" real-world stories to share?
* Any web links we can use to get more "objective" data?

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by billped

BigJake, most people here would appreciate your view a lot more if you provided a bit of logic. Thus far, we can summarize that as, "trust me", and we are a crowd that doesn't trust easily.

Answer questions such as:

* Why not just one? What does each do the other doesn't?
* What specifically do they do?
* Any "objective" real-world stories to share?
* Any web links we can use to get more "objective" data?

He said PERIOD!

[LoadedM333]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

Yeah, and each will say the OTHER is primarily responsible and try to get out of giving you any money. These are insurance companies we are dealing with here.

lol Now that would suck big time

I only have USCCA for now.


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[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by billped

BigJake, most people here would appreciate your view a lot more if you provided a bit of logic. Thus far, we can summarize that as, "trust me", and we are a crowd that doesn't trust easily.

Answer questions such as:

* Why not just one? What does each do the other doesn't?
* What specifically do they do?
* Any "objective" real-world stories to share?
* Any web links we can use to get more "objective" data?

The total cost for both policies is under $600.00 per year. Is that worth your possible freedom? I think so. I have no objective data to share with you as I have (fortunately!) never needed to us either policy and I hope I never do. That said, we are talking about a relatively small amount of money to have two companies backing you up in case the unthinkable happens. Stop pinching pennies and spend the money. Give up whatever small vice you have and pay for both policies that can possibly prevent you from spending the rest of your life in prison. It is ludicrous to not have both. Open up that wallet and spend the money!

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

The total cost for both policies is under $600.00 per year. Is that worth your possible freedom? I think so. I have no objective data to share with you as I have (fortunately!) never needed to us either policy and I hope I never do. That said, we are talking about a relatively small amount of money to have two companies backing you up in case the unthinkable happens. Stop pinching pennies and spend the money. Give up whatever small vice you have and pay for both policies that can possibly prevent you from spending the rest of your life in prison. It is ludicrous to not have both. Open up that wallet and spend the money!

I too have never been in a shooting fortunately. I have, however, had 3 students who have been in shootings. One is a recent case so I do not know much about it. Of the other two, one had USCCA (I know because he bought it through me) and one told me he did not have anything. Neither one spent anytime in jail or in prison. I do not know if they had any civil lawsuits. Both used a lawyer when making statements to police (the one without USCCA paid for his own).

If you buy the premium policy at USCCA, it costs $564 per year if you do it monthly. I believe it is $497 if you do it all up front.

I spoke with an attorney friend of mine who said the exact same thing Cal.Bar said. They will both say the other has to pay.

I do not know of anyone who has done the right thing and had USCCA or CCW Safe and spent their lives in prison or ended in financial ruin.

To me, getting two companies sounds like overkill unless there is some type of overlap.

If you think spending the money for two is well worth it and we are all idiots for only wanting one, let me ask this question: Why stop at two? Maybe buy a cheaper car and buy as many CCW insurances you can find!

[socal m1 shooter]

Dave Ramsey is a long-time CCW permit holder and does not recommend purchasing CCW insurance. While I take a little and leave a little when it comes to his advice, he's not a fool. There are many perspectives on this, and no universal, one-size-fits-all solution.

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

The total cost for both policies is under $600.00 per year. Is that worth your possible freedom? I think so. I have no objective data to share with you as I have (fortunately!) never needed to us either policy and I hope I never do. That said, we are talking about a relatively small amount of money to have two companies backing you up in case the unthinkable happens. Stop pinching pennies and spend the money. Give up whatever small vice you have and pay for both policies that can possibly prevent you from spending the rest of your life in prison. It is ludicrous to not have both. Open up that wallet and spend the money!

Do you really think that $600 will erase behavior that would otherwise jail you for life? Seriously?

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

I too have never been in a shooting fortunately. I have, however, had 3 students who have been in shootings. One is a recent case so I do not know much about it. Of the other two, one had USCCA (I know because he bought it through me) and one told me he did not have anything. Neither one spent anytime in jail or in prison. I do not know if they had any civil lawsuits. Both used a lawyer when making statements to police (the one without USCCA paid for his own).

If you buy the premium policy at USCCA, it costs $564 per year if you do it monthly. I believe it is $497 if you do it all up front.

I spoke with an attorney friend of mine who said the exact same thing Cal.Bar said. They will both say the other has to pay.

I do not know of anyone who has done the right thing and had USCCA or CCW Safe and spent their lives in prison or ended in financial ruin.

To me, getting two companies sounds like overkill unless there is some type of overlap.

If you think spending the money for two is well worth it and we are all idiots for only wanting one, let me ask this question: Why stop at two? Maybe buy a cheaper car and buy as many CCW insurances you can find!

I sleep better at night with two. I can easily afford both and the more expensive car so I don't worry about it. If the unthinkable happens I'll worry about who is going to pay for what when I need to. carry on!

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

Do you really think that $600 will erase behavior that would otherwise jail you for life? Seriously?

No, however, the extra coverage may make the difference. Nobody is talking about bad behavior. I'm talking about a self-defense shooting in a location that may be anti-gun and a malicious prosecution takes place. I'll spend the extra money, which is really nothing compared to the assistance you could get from having two!

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

No, however, the extra coverage may make the difference. Nobody is talking about bad behavior. I'm talking about a self-defense shooting in a location that may be anti-gun and a malicious prosecution takes place. I'll spend the extra money, which is really nothing compared to the assistance you could get from having two!

You said jail for life potentially. That punishment comes from bad behavior. No amount of insurance will keep you out of jail if you’re convicted of crime and sentenced to serve time.

You haven’t given any specifics about why you have those policies. Why that combination? What specific coverage benefits does each offer?

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

I spoke with an attorney friend of mine who said the exact same thing Cal.Bar said. They will both say the other has to pay.

To me, getting two companies sounds like overkill unless there is some type of overlap.

If you think spending the money for two is well worth it and we are all idiots for only wanting one, let me ask this question: Why stop at two? Maybe buy a cheaper car and buy as many CCW insurances you can find!

Almost every form of liability insurance contains a clause that states;

This policy shall be excess over any other collectible insurance.

So yes, with 2 liability policies there may be a little time lag before defense is accepted. You’ll want to have a direct discussion with each claims department to understand which will accept defense, and under what circumstance. (Assuming it’s not stated clearly within the policy.) This is important because you don’t want them fighting. And you don’t want two different companies trying to share defense efforts. That’s a mess.

That said, if both policies cover the same thing and have the excess language, both will share any settlement. But as I stated, you don’t want them both trying to defend the same claim.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

Almost every form of liability insurance contains a clause that states;

This policy shall be excess over any other collectible insurance.

So yes, with 2 liability policies there may be a little time lag before defense is accepted. You’ll want to have a direct discussion with each claims department to understand which will accept defense, and under what circumstance. (Assuming it’s not stated clearly within the policy.) This is important because you don’t want them fighting. And you don’t want two different companies trying to share defense efforts. That’s a mess.

That said, if both policies cover the same thing and have the excess language, both will share any settlement. But as I stated, you don’t want them both trying to defend the same claim.

I agree with you. However, they will both likely try to get out of it and create an additional headache at a time you certainly do not need an additional headache.

I personally think you are better off getting one company with a high amount of coverage.

Statistically, we have a much higher chance of needing to use our car insurance than self-defense insurance. How many of us use two car insurance companies (for the same car)? We usually select one that gives us the coverage we need.

Except for Dave Ramsey (who was quoted earlier), one thing I think we can all agree on is that you should have some form of self-defense insurance!

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

I agree with you. However, they will both likely try to get out of it and create an additional headache at a time you certainly do not need an additional headache.

I personally think you are better off getting one company with a high amount of coverage.

Statistically, we have a much higher chance of needing to use our car insurance than self-defense insurance. How many of us use two car insurance companies (for the same car)? We usually select one that gives us the coverage we need.

Except for Dave Ramsey (who was quoted earlier), one thing I think we can all agree on is that you should have some form of self-defense insurance!

They can’t get out of it. But again the important point is who takes lead on defense. That needs to be identified.

You are correct that it’s usually not a good idea to have two different insurance companies for the same risk. Confusion and delays are common.

I do believe the two policies mentioned offer some different coverage. Was hoping Big Jake would offer some insight to that. But alas no...

And Ramsey? Ya, he’s pretty insurance averse in general. But that’s a personal risk tolerance issue IMO.

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

There have been a couple postings about CCW insurance lately and I am also in the process of trying to figure out which company to go with. In the course of my research I stumbled on what I think is a pretty good comparison chart on the Virginia Citizens Defense League's website.

Note that I am not affiliated with any of these companies or the VCDL. I just thought some of you may also find this useful.


https://vcdl.org/Legal-Plans

The link you provided contains a pretty good comparison of coverage. Not sure how many are offered in CA, but nonetheless it looks like a good reference.

Thanks!

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

They can’t get out of it. But again the important point is who takes lead on defense. That needs to be identified.

You are correct that it’s usually not a good idea to have two different insurance companies for the same risk. Confusion and delays are common.

I do believe the two policies mentioned offer some different coverage. Was hoping Big Jake would offer some insight to that. But alas no...

And Ramsey? Ya, he’s pretty insurance averse in general. But that’s a personal risk tolerance issue IMO.

Whether they can or not, you know they will try to get out of paying. That could mean potential delays, etc.

It seems to me to be a bigger headache than the reward. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, there are lots of people who live paycheck to paycheck who are good people and responsibly carry daily. An extra $50 a month actually means a lot to them. That is literally their budget to practice/train at the range.

I really like Dave Ramsey and he makes a lot of good points. However, I do not agree with everything he says.

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

They can’t get out of it. But again the important point is who takes lead on defense. That needs to be identified.

You are correct that it’s usually not a good idea to have two different insurance companies for the same risk. Confusion and delays are common.

I do believe the two policies mentioned offer some different coverage. Was hoping Big Jake would offer some insight to that. But alas no...

And Ramsey? Ya, he’s pretty insurance averse in general. But that’s a personal risk tolerance issue IMO.

CCWSAFE is not a traditional insurance policy. They will provide whatever defense you need (Within policy limits!) to defend yourself in case needed. They will provide staff attorneys, etc. USCCA will pay you $500.00 per day that you need to miss work to appear in court to defend yourself. BOTH policies are better. If all of you choose to pinch your pennies that is your choice. I sleep better at night with both!

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

Whether they can or not, you know they will try to get out of paying. That could mean potential delays, etc.

It seems to me to be a bigger headache than the reward. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, there are lots of people who live paycheck to paycheck who are good people and responsibly carry daily. An extra $50 a month actually means a lot to them. That is literally their budget to practice/train at the range.

I really like Dave Ramsey and he makes a lot of good points. However, I do not agree with everything he says.

If money is truly that tight than consider getting a better job so you can afford to live a better life. Different subject I know. Carry on!

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

CCWSAFE is not a traditional insurance policy. They will provide whatever defense you need (Within policy limits!) to defend yourself in case needed. They will provide staff attorneys, etc. USCCA will pay you $500.00 per day that you need to miss work to appear in court to defend yourself. BOTH policies are better. If all of you choose to pinch your pennies that is your choice. I sleep better at night with both!

USCCA will also provide an attorney and provide civil protection.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

If money is truly that tight than consider getting a better job so you can afford to live a better life. Different subject I know. Carry on!

Wow, what an elitist attitude. Maybe, they are working towards that. Maybe, they are retired. Maybe, they are disabled veterans. Either way, it is not a crime to not have money. CCW is not only for the rich.

The words "they" and "them" are third person meaning I am not included in that.

If you want two, have a blast. Implying people are stupid for only having one insurance company (or even the two you suggest) is absurd. The firearms industry is an industry that is mostly opinions. Other than safety rules, pretty much nothing is set in stone. Pretty much nothing is THE way. There are multiple ways of doing things. Everyone can do their own research and come up with their own opinions. Anytime, someone in this industry says to do something, period, it is likely their personal opinion and no better or worse than anyone else's opinion (unless one is talking about safety rules).

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

Whether they can or not, you know they will try to get out of paying. That could mean potential delays, etc.

It seems to me to be a bigger headache than the reward. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, there are lots of people who live paycheck to paycheck who are good people and responsibly carry daily. An extra $50 a month actually means a lot to them. That is literally their budget to practice/train at the range.

I really like Dave Ramsey and he makes a lot of good points. However, I do not agree with everything he says.

I’m going to disagree with your first line. Both companies mentioned are offering insurance policies for very specific and rare events. To fiddle with accepting a valid claim would be beyond foolish. And paying isn’t the issue. Defense is paramount, followed by bonding and other immediate financial needs.

With either policy you’re not out of pocket for payment of judgements. Plenty of time to figure that out.

But as I wrote before, it’s usually not a great idea to buy duplicate coverage. I still don’t see any major difference between the 2 policies.

One last thought. Ccw safe offers limits up to around $1million. The other is over $2million. The combined limit is the only reason I can think of for having both policies. ie how much wealth are you trying to protect?

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Big Jake

CCWSAFE is not a traditional insurance policy. They will provide whatever defense you need (Within policy limits!) to defend yourself in case needed. They will provide staff attorneys, etc. USCCA will pay you $500.00 per day that you need to miss work to appear in court to defend yourself. BOTH policies are better. If all of you choose to pinch your pennies that is your choice. I sleep better at night with both!

So, in the unlikely event you need a lawyer, call ccw first. Let them coordinate your coverage.

But, based on the op link to Virginia, there really isn’t that much difference in your two policies. From what I read, you in fact have a lot of duplicate coverage. Which is why I and others pressed you for your reason to buy both.

PERIOD isn’t a good argument. Unless of course it’s preceded by KING DOT. Then you win.

[cbr9290318]

Yeah I had both, CCW Safe and USCCA but I canceled the USCCA (which was a pain in the behind to do) and added civil liability coverage through CCW Safe. I don't need salary replacement for court day appearances. YMMV.

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[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

I’m going to disagree with your first line. Both companies mentioned are offering insurance policies for very specific and rare events. To fiddle with accepting a valid claim would be beyond foolish. And paying isn’t the issue. Defense is paramount, followed by bonding and other immediate financial needs.

With either policy you’re not out of pocket for payment of judgements. Plenty of time to figure that out.

But as I wrote before, it’s usually not a great idea to buy duplicate coverage. I still don’t see any major difference between the 2 policies.

One last thought. Ccw safe offers limits up to around $1million. The other is over $2million. The combined limit is the only reason I can think of for having both policies. ie how much wealth are you trying to protect?

You may be right on the first claim. I do not know of anyone who has had duplicate coverage who has been in a self-defense incident. Unless you know of an instance (or have some insider knowledge), I think we are both speculating and offering an opinion.

I will say that I strongly agree that you generally have plenty of time to figure out the financial side of it after these incidents.

One thing I will add is that if you are in a situation that may require self-defense, the financial side of things should be the LAST thing on your mind. Do whatever it takes to lawfully protect yourself and your family first.

[SigSanDiego]

CCW Safe. Ultimate Plan.

I did at least 10 hours of research and comparison.

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

But as I wrote before, it’s usually not a great idea to buy duplicate coverage. I still don’t see any major difference between the 2 policies.

Agreed... similar to home owners insurance, usually the only reason to have dual coverage is if one policy has different exclusions than the other, for example one covers mold since the other one doesn't. Like you mention, both policies are pretty similar in coverage.

I think my biggest concern with any of these is how extensively have any of these policies been exercised? Has any of them had to defend and payout for a major self defense claim and if so, how has the process been? Just like car insurance, they might all advertise similar policy limits, but some are known to handle claims terribly while others are better.

[cbr9290318]

See the third item... disclaimer that is from CCW Safes website.

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