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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1841  
Old 01-22-2020, 6:02 PM
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You never know. They may uphold Benitez’s ruling in a quick turnaround. Vacationing on the moon is more likely, but there is a small chance and they might expect it to go en banc anyway.
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  #1842  
Old 01-22-2020, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
You never know. They may uphold Benitez’s ruling in a quick turnaround. Vacationing on the moon is more likely, but there is a small chance and they might expect it to go en banc anyway.
With the current makeup of the ninth wouldn't that be playing with fire if they let it go en banc? Think of the possibilities, the en banc panel is made up of conservatives and rules in our favor. If it's made up of commies and rules against us, the case gets appealed, Trump gets re-elected, Ruth dies, another conservative is appointed to the Supreme Court. The case finally makes it to the SC and we win and commie heads explode.

Thoughts?
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  #1843  
Old 01-22-2020, 6:59 PM
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More complexity:

Colorado Supreme Court and the State Courts of Vermont are also opining on the issue of LCM. Depending on who comes first things may get SCOTUS-y very quickly.
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  #1844  
Old 01-22-2020, 7:39 PM
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Worman is already at SCOTUS and deals with LCMs, so when that gets disposed, however that happens - based on NYSRPA, the ninth may not have a choice in what to do.
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  #1845  
Old 01-22-2020, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
More complexity:

Colorado Supreme Court and the State Courts of Vermont are also opining on the issue of LCM. Depending on who comes first things may get SCOTUS-y very quickly.
those are both State law constitutional claims so those cases end at the state supreme court level either way.
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  #1846  
Old 01-22-2020, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
Worman is already at SCOTUS and deals with LCMs, so when that gets disposed, however that happens - based on NYSRPA, the ninth may not have a choice in what to do.
Not have a choice? It's the ninth and gun rights we are talking about. They will just make up some tortured logic and rule against us.

When has the ninth ever allowed a gun rights case to go our way?
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  #1847  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:43 AM
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When has the ninth ever allowed a gun rights case to go our way?
Not a fair question. When was the last time the 9th was at parity and heard a 2A case?
Never?

The 9th has shifted dramatically back toward the center under Trump
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  #1848  
Old 01-23-2020, 1:09 AM
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When was the last time the 9th was at parity and heard a 2A case?
Never?

The 9th has shifted dramatically back toward the center under Trump
There are currently 16 active justices appointed by Clinton and Obama vs 13 active justices appointed by Bush II and Trump.
Of the senior justices, there are 11 from Nixon, the Bush's and Reagan and 9 from Carter and Clinton.

It's as close to even as it's ever been since most of us have been alive.
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  #1849  
Old 01-23-2020, 9:07 AM
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So the next hearing is the first week of April. Wow, almost exactly 1 year since the stay. Gotta love how fast our judicial system works. I understand how the calendar can fill up with cases and there are not enough judges for all the cases, but there should be a way for us to get through all of this faster. Not just this case, but any case challenging a current law.

Now not that I know anything about the law like some folks here, but think about it. The people that wrote and passed the law, know what they did and why they did it. The people that oppose it, have their reasons. There should be no need for months of time to prepare briefs for the court. The documents should already be drafted when the create the law. If it gets challenged, the judge should simply say, get your stuff together and be here tomorrow. The documents should have a page limit. The judge reads the documents, asks questions if he has any, then rules. Done. Same Day. It should all be like small claims court or traffic court. If you lose and want to appeal, then great, the next set of judges are available tomorrow.

I know, wishful thinking.

Last edited by NorthBay Shooter; 01-23-2020 at 9:11 AM..
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  #1850  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
those are both State law constitutional claims so those cases end at the state supreme court level either way.
If we assume that the rulings are antithetical to the 2A, would SCOTUS have the option to review if the claims are brought up in Federal courts? Is that not what happened in Cateano?
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  #1851  
Old 01-23-2020, 5:51 PM
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A case must raise US Constitutional issues to be appealed from state SC to SCOTUS. IIRC both cases only challenge state law on state constitutional grounds. SCOTUS got involved in Caetano because Mass. law didn’t acknowledge a stun gun as arms, and therefore made a judgement based on their law and understanding of arms from their constitution and traditions. SCOTUS reversed the decision after interpreting arms to include electronic weapons, thereby extending 2A protections over such weapons and forcing Mass. to take notice.

Can a case introduce a 2A argument mid-stream? The lawyers on the board would have to answer that one. My understanding is no, but if both sides ended up agreeing in arguments that magazines are arms, well, then you might have a situation to appeal beyond state SC.
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  #1852  
Old 01-23-2020, 6:50 PM
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I sure am enjoying the slew of Freedom Week normal capacity magazines I purchased. I hope I get to continue to do so after all this legal dust settles.
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  #1853  
Old 01-23-2020, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
If we assume that the rulings are antithetical to the 2A, would SCOTUS have the option to review if the claims are brought up in Federal courts? Is that not what happened in Cateano?
the Supreme Court can review a state supreme court decision. In Cateano the litigant brought a challenge under the U.S. Constitution that the electric arm ban violated the Second Amendment.

In the Vermont and CO cases the claims are under their respective state constitutions so that is why the claims end with their state supreme courts.
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