Sit outside while children are being shot

[yzErnie]

Originally Posted by Tyke8319

^^^
Copy all...
30 years of being "second guessed" and the PTSD sneaks back up on me. Makes me

I get it.

This may sound odd to some here but...I enjoyed the challenge of being second guessed by my superiors. Because then, they would ask me for comments about the training and the actions needed. I would always preface my reply(s) with this, "You asked me a question, do you want me to tell you the truth or do you want me to lie to you". We all know what their answer would be so that gave me the opportunity to be brutally honest with them. Most took it as an afront to their manhood/womanhood but they knew I was right with my training and formats for the training. Shame on them for not being smart enough to do their own research before asking me anything related to the training. Second guess me bosses, this will be fun!!!!

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by Tyke8319

I suppose I learned somewhere along in my 30 years as a LEO (and after embarrassing myself on occasion with authoritative opinions) not to judge anything until all the facts were in or unless I was a witness or participant in an event.
I'm still standing by till the fat lady sings before I form an opinion as to the circumstances surrounding the events at Uvalde, TX.

That was 10 days ago. So please share just who you consider the "FAT LADY" to be? Because if she happens to be TDPS. Who was/is in charge of the investigation. She sang the day before you made that statement. https://www.cbsnews.com/dfw/news/liv...investigation/

Texas DPS on Uvalde shooting: 'It was the wrong decision,' not to breach classroom

Or do you consider the FAT LADY to be Chief Pete Arredondo? Who contradicted literally everything that every other, of the over 100 officers on site, and TDPS, said concerning his actions?

Wait till the facts are in before you go spouting off...

Since when is asking questions considered "spouting off"?

I ask, WHO'S FACTS can WE believe? The "facts" presented by the mother who was berating cops for standing around, doing nothing. While children were dying. Who was handcuffed by US Marshals and led away for "obstructing"... [caught on camera and witnessed by dozens of other parents] ... Which later, after her release by the Marshals, climbed over the back fence of Robb Elementary School and got her 2 daughters out herself.

Or the Marshals Service, who said "they did no such thing"?

How about 2 sets of irrefutable KNOWN FACTS.

Parkland ... 4 yrs ago. Attack lasted 7 minutes, entry to exit of shooter. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...chool-shooting

Uvalde ... 3 wks ago. Attack lasted 70 minutes, first 911 call to death of shooter.

Parkland ... One cop did nothing, for those 7 min.

Uvalde ... Over 100 cops did nothing, for those 70 min.

Until 4 did.

Hats off to the valiant BORTAC agents who finally put a stop to the insane carnage. [yes pun intended]

https://twitter.com/BillFOXLA/status...illing-shooter

[1911su16b870]

Originally Posted by yzErnie

...The bottom line for me when these kinds of things are happening you HAVE to act, regardless of who is in charge.

^YES!!! Testify Brother!

[1911su16b870]

CNN...so just know... IMO a good editorial piece.

First I have learned in a news interview they were busting out windows and extracting kids. Some footage of the day also showed this.

[Che762x39]

Interesting thread.

LE did a great job on the Duncanville, TX Summer Camp, two days ago. Bad Guy down and no innocents injured.

In the LE Community we have "heroes and zeroes" and I always encourage everyone to be a "hero".

[esy]

After the TX State Police Director’s briefing, that really pisses me off. I was doing my best to give them the benefit of the doubt. Absolutely horrible.

[Russian Bot]

Its a really bad situation. As I have come to understand LE does not have the legal obligation to do anything, horrible optics like this will likely lead to a sacrificial officer (hopefully the Chief). I find it morally reprehensible that they did nothing especially after seeing posts about them acquiring body armor designed to deal with such a threat as well as the photos of them in the hallway with ARs and a ballistic shield.

As a person I like to hope that I'd have gone in and stopped this guy, but until you've been there nobody knows how they will react in this situation.

Didn't realize this was LE forum, sorry if I'm not supposed to post here.

[yzErnie]

Originally Posted by Russian Bot

Its a really bad situation. As I have come to understand LE does not have the legal obligation to do anything,

That is correct but there is also an ethical and moral obligation to act. IMO, it goes well beyond even that and starts with uneducated, untrained or ball-less first arrivers who should have taken the initiative to deliver an immediate and forceful reaction to what was happening. The solace I have is the truth is being released to the press and the "Chief" onscene supervisors are being revealed for what they truly are.

[esy]

Originally Posted by yzErnie

That is correct but there is also an ethical and moral obligation to act. IMO, it goes well beyond even that and starts with uneducated, untrained or ball-less first arrivers….

I would just go with the latter.

Ball-less, gutless, cowards, etc.

First arrivers are correct. Doesn’t matter if you got there first. What have you done to resolve the situation? Being first means nothing.

I have gone through mental preparation and as many “what if” scenarios as I can think of on an everyday basis. In all of the active shooter training and scenarios that I’ve done (I’ve done a lot from small settings to multi-agency University/College settings), I’ve reacted similarly.

Get a call, start hearing screaming, blanks going off, I start hoofing it to where the indicators point me, and I lay as much hate as I possibly can at the person(s) trying to hurt others.

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by esy

After the TX State Police Director’s briefing, that really pisses me off. I was doing my best to give them the benefit of the doubt. Absolutely horrible.

As was I. But sadly, the more "official reports", and previously unreleased accounts, that are made public. Paint an ever darker picture of what transpired that terrible day.

Originally Posted by yzErnie

That is correct but there is also an ethical and moral obligation to act. IMO, it goes well beyond even that and starts with uneducated, untrained or ball-less first arrivers who should have taken the initiative to deliver an immediate and forceful reaction to what was happening. The solace I have is the truth is being released to the press and the "Chief" onscene supervisors are being revealed for what they truly are.

After Colombine in 99. It is my understanding that General Policy from coast to coast became "ACT, AND ACT FAST", in these type scenarios. Especially after the well deserved vilification of The Broward Coward.

Now this https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/uv...id=hplocalnews

To little, too late, IMO. Especially since such as this. Is now being released as to just how bad the response really was. https://www.thedailybeast.com/slain-...-to-rescue-her

A Uvalde school district police officer married to a teacher killed in the Uvalde school shooting last month was detained and had his gun taken away from him as he attempted to reach her, according to a top official. Speaking to the Texas Senate, the state’s Department of Public Safety director Steve McCraw said Ruben Ruiz had known his wife, Eva Mireles, had been injured by the gunman but that he was forcibly moved away from the classroom in which she was trapped. “We got an officer whose wife called him and said she’d been shot and she’s dying,” McCraw said. “He tried to move forward into the hallway. He was detained, and they took his gun away from him and escorted him off the scene.” The director did not specify which agency was responsible for detaining Ruiz. Mireles, a fourth-grade teacher, was one of two teachers killed by the shooter, along with 19 students. McCraw also said on Tuesday that the classroom door had not been locked, as the embattled Uvalde school district police chief had previously maintained, and that officers could have neutralized the gunman in three minutes had they chosen to breach the door.

[Devilock04]

This article has some snapshots from surveillance footage showing they had ballistic shields and patrol rifles outside the classroom approximately 45 minutes before the BORTAC guys finally made entry.

It also came out in the hearing that there was a Halligan tool on scene but the school police Chief decided to wait for keys. And the DPS representative testified that it was not possible to lock the door from inside the classroom without using the key on the outside handle.

The article also seems to show that the DPS agents on scene were wanting to make entry but were told to hold back by the local agencies.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/22/photos...exas-shooting/

Someone may have found a way to remove him from the city council too. He hasn’t shown his face since being sworn in but has not been granted a leave of absence from the city council. After missing three council meetings, the other councilmembers can vote to remove him.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/we-wa...council-member