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  #1  
Old 04-29-2021, 1:06 PM
melliw melliw is offline
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Default Any ideas?

Hope your collective mind can help. I am tumbling 223 brass in a Thumler's tumbler with stainless steel pins, dawn, and Lemi-shine. It does not matter how long i wash or the usage of hot or cold water. All of the brass from my past washes end up with this thick oily paste on them. I can use a towel and some force to wipe it off but no shine to the brass. Any tips would be helpful.
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  #2  
Old 04-29-2021, 1:09 PM
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Just wondering, you change the water and retumble? No personal expierence wet tumbling but that would be my first thing to trouble shoot. Also how many cases you cleaning? Might be too full/heavy.
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Old 04-29-2021, 1:11 PM
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I have found that the first tumble after not using in a while isnít very good. Dump and refresh water, tumble again and it works.


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  #4  
Old 04-29-2021, 1:23 PM
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Thank you both. I do use fresh water and rinse the pins after each use.
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Old 04-29-2021, 1:26 PM
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I had a similar experience after using a motor oil additive (MotorKote) as a neck turning lube. For some reason, the soap didn't want to wash it off. Did you use an odd non-water-soluble lube prior to tumbling?

Try tumbling again, but add more detergent and skip the acid (Lemi-shine), at least until you get rid of the contaminant. Use as hot water as you can get to aid in cutting the oil/grease/whatever the crap is.

Alternatively, wipe the stuff off with a rag and acetone or alcohol (assuming one or the other cuts it) then re-tumble.
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2021, 1:33 PM
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I was using lanolin as a lubricant for the cases. It is similar to the Dillon lube. Maybe it has coated the SS or interior of the rubber tumbler drum.
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2021, 2:29 PM
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Maybe too much brass or dirty pins maybe. I wet tumble, no pins with a few shakes of lemishine and one drop of Dawn in my large wet tumbler. Comes out rocking everytime. I used Dillon case lube as well. No issues

You could buy some Brass Juice and try that. I bought a bottle to try and it works well.

If you are using well water, you may have some harder impurities in your water...Try distilling or filtering maybe and see if it makes a difference.

Here is my process and research if you are interested.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...6&postcount=65

Hope that helps,
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  #8  
Old 04-29-2021, 2:58 PM
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"Any ideas?" as the Subject/Topic?
THAT is not a Subj./Topic, unless you are on CRACK.
OMFG GDMFSOB

Do you work in Corp. America, and manage people?!

THAT is what THEY do...
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2021, 3:06 PM
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I shoot my 223 with Pam cooking spray and run them through my Frankford water tumbler with some dawn soap and a cap full of lemon juice. If their really dirty I pour it out after 2 hours and run a clean mix for 30 min. They look brand new. I've never used my SS pins. Dump it all in my Walmart food dehydrator for 3 hours and done Sir!
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2021, 3:37 PM
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First I see scratches on the case neck. There is probably brass pieces or some debris stuck in the die neck that is causing the scratches by galling. Brush and polish the die to stop the scratching.

Are you resizing before cleaning? Important question right here.

It appears that lube left on the case is not being removed in the tumbling process. BTW lanolin is not water soluble

More info more help.Lanolin is not soluble in water or mineral oil but is miscible without phase separation with about twice its weight of water. It is sparingly soluble in cold alcohol and more so in hot alcohol. Lanolin is highly soluble in chloroform and ether.

irh

Last edited by ironhorse1; 04-29-2021 at 3:51 PM..
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  #11  
Old 04-29-2021, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
"Any ideas?" as the Subject/Topic?
THAT is not a Subj./Topic, unless you are on CRACK.
OMFG GDMFSOB

Do you work in Corp. America, and manage people?!


THAT is what THEY do...
Wow.....just wow.
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2021, 4:31 PM
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I had the same problem. The lanolin based lube is what you are seeing. You can boil in hot water first then pour off the water and tumble with the pins, dawn and citric acid or tumble for 10-15 minutes with Simple Green or other neutral ph degreasers.
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  #13  
Old 04-29-2021, 5:18 PM
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If you're getting that much gunk buildup during tumbling, you're using too much lanoline(?).

Standard DIY lanoline lube is 10% lanoline and 90% of 95% IPA.

What was your mixture ratio?
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Old 04-29-2021, 5:25 PM
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Use hot water.
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  #15  
Old 04-29-2021, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
If you're getting that much gunk buildup during tumbling, you're using too much lanoline(?).

Standard DIY lanoline lube is 10% lanoline and 90% of 95% IPA.

What was your mixture ratio?
I am using your ratios with the correct Iso. The results say otherwise though.
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  #16  
Old 04-29-2021, 6:40 PM
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I use a little bit of Dawn, Simple Green, and Jet Dry in my Thumlers tumbler, my brass comes out looking like new...
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  #17  
Old 04-29-2021, 6:43 PM
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Did you use too much lemi-shine?
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  #18  
Old 04-29-2021, 6:48 PM
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^^įOK.... You may be overloading your tumbler with brass.

As mentioned, rinse everthing ,(pins, brass, and tumbler interior with very hot water and wipe off all lanoline residue.
Next tumbling session load brass to only 50% of tumbler volume. Add pins, and fill with water/soap/lemishine til 75% tumbler volume.

Lube and resize.

Somewhere, somehow you seem to be experiencing an overload of lanoline. Get it all out of the physical process (cleaning with hot water) and start over.
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Old 04-29-2021, 7:18 PM
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Thats too much work for brass cleaning.

Tumble dry in walnut media for 30 minutes. It'll look 1000x cleaner than that, and be ready to reload with no drying.
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  #20  
Old 04-29-2021, 9:47 PM
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I leave the Lemishine out of the tumbling operation.
I run the tumbler with warm water and Dawn for an hour, drain and flush most of the dirty water out and add fresh warm water and dawn and go another hour. They come out much cleaner for me that way.
Then, after flushing the brass with fresh water and tumbling in a separator to get the pins out I soak them in warm water and Lemishine for twenty minutes in a tub, then drain and flush again.
Next I roll them in a bath towel to dry them some then put in trays to bake at 170 F. for two hours. It sounds more complicated than it is.
I use the larger pins, they don't stick in the primer pockets and seem to do a better job.
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Old 04-30-2021, 6:07 AM
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I tried dry tumbling and decided it wasn't worth the effort.

However I found that no matter what I used along with the tumbling media (buckwheat groats in my case), the inside of the tumbler would collect all sorts of dirt from the cases, so I'd periodically clean it with mineral spirits.

Now I just wash brass in hot water with a bit of Dawn and Lemishine, rinse thoroughly, then dry them (on the heated shop floor in winter, on the sunny deck in summer). Good enough.
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Old 04-30-2021, 6:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
"Any ideas?" as the Subject/Topic?
THAT is not a Subj./Topic, unless you are on CRACK.
OMFG GDMFSOB

Do you work in Corp. America, and manage people?!

THAT is what THEY do...
*I'm* the resident curmudgeon around here, so cut it out!
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2021, 7:41 AM
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Dump everything out and use walnut shell to solve your issue.
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  #24  
Old 04-30-2021, 8:20 AM
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Not sure what is going on, but I just use lemi shine, dawn and water in a Thumler's Tumbler. I deprime before cleaning.
I do rinse after a few time to flush the dirty water while they are still in the tumbler.
Maybe an hour or so.


Last edited by 67Cuda; 04-30-2021 at 8:23 AM..
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2021, 9:16 AM
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Lookin' good.
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2021, 9:31 AM
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I throw in a dry tumbler with a dryer sheet. Come back in two hours. Done.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melliw View Post
I was using lanolin as a lubricant for the cases. It is similar to the Dillon lube. Maybe it has coated the SS or interior of the rubber tumbler drum.
Buy some RCBS Case Lube II it is water soluble
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Old 04-30-2021, 1:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomReloaded View Post
Thats too much work for brass cleaning.

Tumble dry in walnut media for 30 minutes. It'll look 1000x cleaner than that, and be ready to reload with no drying.
Alternatively, dry tumble for a half hour, then wet tumble again. Dry tumbling will remove the lube, then the wet tumble will clean them up the way you normally do.
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Old 05-02-2021, 7:14 PM
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Additionally to my above, I dry tumble my loaded rounds for about 30 min to remove the excess lube.
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Old 05-02-2021, 8:09 PM
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I wash everything in Vinegar and water for 30 minutes, dry, wash and tumble. There clean enough to load just after the Vinegar as it strips any oils completely out and leaves them somewhat shiny.

Never had brass that nasty, there are so many once fired .223 I stopped picking them up.
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Old 05-02-2021, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melliw View Post
I am using your ratios with the correct Iso.
A couple 6 packs of IPA will make it so you don't care as much about the ISO.
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Old 05-02-2021, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
I tried dry tumbling and decided it wasn't worth the effort.
Yeah.
All the chemistry lessons and and answering all the "why is my brass messed up while wet tumbling" threads is much easier...
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Old 05-03-2021, 12:53 AM
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This happens when the detergent is completly loaded with suspended dirt and all the soil falls out of solution. This can also happen with engines using detergent oils. Old non-detergent oils would require frequent filter changes. Detergent oils need less frequent changes, but IF the detergent is used up, all that glop appears everywhere in the engine.
Do not re-use cleaning water
Use more Dawn
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  #34  
Old 05-03-2021, 8:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Yeah.
All the chemistry lessons and and answering all the "why is my brass messed up while wet tumbling" threads is much easier...
Gotta agree with this. Since dry tumbling is a mechanical process it doesnít matter if I tumble for 30 minutes or forget about it & leave it on overnight. Likewise after tumbling, I can leave the brass in the walnut for months at a time without issue. No recipe, no ratios, no chemical reactions. And no dust, Iíve always wondered what the people complaining about dust are talking about.
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Old 05-03-2021, 9:03 AM
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Iíve always wondered what the people complaining about dust are talking about.
I think I figured it out in another thread.
There is a vibratory tumbler that has an OPEN top.
It makes a bunch of dust of course because it's not covered!

I think that the myth of dust is derived from people that bought that tumbler.
Of course as you and I know, most vibratory tumblers do NOT have an open top and don't cause dust to get all over the place...
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  #36  
Old 05-03-2021, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomReloaded View Post
Thats too much work for brass cleaning.

Tumble dry in walnut media for 30 minutes. It'll look 1000x cleaner than that, and be ready to reload with no drying.
When you do that, do they come out of the dry media ready to go? Does the media fall off by itself?
Asking because I've never dry tumbled brass.
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  #37  
Old 05-03-2021, 10:04 AM
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Dry tumbling is just that, dry. Its usually crushed corn cob or walnut and the vibratory action cleans the cases. Tou can add brass polish to it to make them shiny. Only draw back is that if you decide to deprime first and tumble, it does not clean primer pockets and you have to inspect the flash holes and clear any obstruction. For me I dry tumble before deprime and the action of depriving after clears any possible obstruction.

Dry tumbling creates dust you need to be aware of as well. But yes. You van dry tumble and immediately reload it with no drying time.
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Old 05-03-2021, 12:20 PM
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The reptile walnut bedding I use is similar in grain size to sand. It falls out of the flash hole, so no worries there.

Gotta dump out the media from the brass. Either by hand or with the collander looking separator thing.

It's so ridiculously easier, faster, and problem free compared to wet tumbling. The finish it gives has lower friction than mirror polished slick brass, so it runs smoother in dies too. It does a satisfactory job cleaning primer pockets too. If you're chasing benchrest accuracy that's another matter. I don't decap first anyway.
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Old 05-03-2021, 12:38 PM
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So, the cartridges will still have some dust/debree left in them, but nothing to worry about. Correct?
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Old 05-03-2021, 1:47 PM
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Interestingly enough, I used to dry tumble in walnut or corncob, using Midway's Frankford Arsenal polish, and if the media was old enough and overloaded with polish, I'd get cases with dirty looking crud on them that was hard to remove, plus even worse buildup inside the tumbler bowl.

I guess either method requires the right technique.

I went to wet tumbling. Even with keeping the lid on the tumbler, using dryer cloths, dampening the media and separating the media in a covered bin to keep the dust down there was still a lot of dust that was likely contributing to my elevated lead levels. The lead levels improved after the switch.
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