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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
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#1
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Krag front sight blade
Hey guys,
Took the Krag Cavalry Carbine out for the first time today. I'm shooting 4-6" high at 50 yards depending on load but 6" was at 2200 fps with 165g projectile. If I go up to 2350 ish I'll probably end up a little higher. Was the battle sight when the rear sight is flipped down set for a zero of 200 or 300 yards? I saw somewhere mentioning 400-500 yards also. I see Numrich has a front sight blade .413" high and my current one is .294". I think I only need 1mm so .33" ish to get it at 100 yards but I'll have to check next week at the range to say for sure. I'm about 1 inch to the left at 50 yards also but I don't think there is a windage adjustment on the 1898 Krag. If it's supposed to be that high then maybe I'll leave it but I can always switch it back. Maybe I can finangle a piece of brass and trim it till it's right on at 100 yards. Last edited by Geofois; 04-04-2021 at 10:59 PM.. |
#3
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Hah =P.
I did check with hornady's online ballistic calculator. I ran 220 grain with bc of .294 at 2000 fps and it hits just about 6 inches high at 50 yards with a 300 zero. That's probably what it's zero is supposed to be. Looks like it will be even higher at 100 yards as its still climbing at that point. I am changing a front sight on an M1903 so maybe i can repurpose the old sight blade somehow. I was noticing the newer 1901 or something krag rear sights were upgraded with a peep. I wonder if I can get a 1903 part from that sight and see if it will fit and then use the peep. Just thinking outloud. It wouldn't be anything permanent. |
#4
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The rear sight designs are completely different, but they do use the same screw holes in the receiver (albeit different screw heights).
I just bought a 1902 rear sight to put on my 1896 carbine because it shoots 2" to the right at 50 yards, and the early model sights have no windage adjustment. I've also been having issues with the front sight because the previous owner had aftermarket Lyman sights installed. I know why he sold it. Stupid thing shot 1' low at 50 yards when I first got it home. I've been trying to get it right for a year and a half.
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#5
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Quote:
The bullet is NORMALLY high at 50yds to land on target at 100yds with an iron sighted rifle. There is 2.9" more drop occurring from line of bore from 50yds to 100yds with a 165gr sierra softpoint going 2200fps. Code:
Tabular trajectory data at Std.ICAO Atmosphere ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun / Ammunition : 223 Bullet Type : .308, 165, Sierra SPBT 2145 Bullet Weight : 165 grains or 10.69 Grams Muzzle Velocity : 2200 fps Twist Length : 11.0 in. (RH) Gyro. Stability : 1.84 Crosswind Speed : 10.0 Mph Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1) : C1_1=0.397@V>2400 fps; C1_2=0.402@V>1600 fps; C1_3=0.412@V>0 fps; C1_4=0.251@V>0 fps; Optimum trajectory information : Optimum sight-in range (X) = 155 Yds. with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 85 Yds. and max. point blank range (P)= 182 Yds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 9.144 cm/100 yd. or 3.60 in/100 yd. Height of sight above bore axis = 1.905 cm or 0.75 inch Gun is zeroed-in at 300 yds, by sighting-in at level firing ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Range Velo Time of Energy Path Spin / Wind- Total Sight correction Target city flight to dage, Wind drop for setting new lead LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds · ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | 0 2200 0.0000 1773 -0.8 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00 | 25 2157 0.0345 1705 +2.3 -0.1 -0.26 0.2 -2.5 -8.66 0.38 | 50 2115 0.0696 1639 +4.8 -0.2 -0.43 0.9 -2.7 -9.21 0.76 | 75 2074 0.1053 1575 +6.9 -0.5 -0.60 2.1 -2.6 -8.78 1.15 | 100 2032 0.1415 1513 +8.5 -0.8 -0.77 3.8 -2.4 -8.09 1.55 | 125 1992 0.1781 1453 +9.6 -1.2 -0.90 5.9 -2.1 -7.30 1.95 | 150 1951 0.2156 1394 +10.1 -1.7 -1.09 8.6 -1.9 -6.43 2.36 M 161 1933 0.2325 1369 +10.2 -2.0 -1.19 10.0 -1.8 -6.03 2.54 | 175 1911 0.2543 1338 +10.1 -2.4 -1.33 11.9 -1.6 -5.49 2.78 | 200 1872 0.2940 1284 +9.4 -3.3 -1.60 15.8 -1.3 -4.49 3.22 | 225 1834 0.3349 1232 +8.1 -4.4 -1.88 20.4 -1.0 -3.43 3.66 | 250 1796 0.3767 1181 +6.1 -5.7 -2.16 25.6 -0.7 -2.33 4.12 | 275 1759 0.4194 1133 +3.4 -7.0 -2.45 31.6 -0.3 -1.18 4.59 X 300 1722 0.4631 1086 0.0 -8.6 -2.73 38.2 0.0 0.00 5.06
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#6
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Quote:
Battle sights seem to be zeroed for 300 yards so I'll probably be 10" high at 100 but I'll report back if I go next week. We barely got to shoot for 45 min since I didn't know Burro closed early for Easter =/. I was able to chrono my 3 loads for the krag so that was good. I'll see if I get get to 2400 fps with a 168g hpbt. |
#8
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This might be cheesy but if I found a beat up ladder piece I could drill a hole and mount a piece of metal hanging down with a hole drilled in it so I can tilt a peep hole left or right then I would have windage and elevation using the original rear sight. But don't tell anyone I said that =P.
With slightly more thought maybe just a clip to snugly go over the ladder and it can be shifted left or right a couple mm so no need to drill. It would need to be a pretty snug fit. I've got my mickey mouse hat on now. Last edited by Geofois; 04-05-2021 at 10:29 AM.. |
#9
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I just shaved about 1.5mm from the bottom of and and re-pinned the front sight, so hopefully I'll be on target height wise next time. It's really hard to say.
My Carbine doesn't have an OEM front sight mount either, it's some kind of Lyman thingamadoogie that's pinned on. My last two range trips, I had to use the 400 yard rear sight adjustment to get it 3" below center at 50 yards. . . if I can hit somewhere in that range with the standard rear height (0-300), I can learn to live with it, just getting tired of sinking money into a poorly bubba'd gun.
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#12
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Here's the thing.
I don't care what it looks like. I don't care if it's mismatched parts, or a shaved stock, or a cut barrel, or any of that. I care that it goes bang, and hits what I want it to hit. It goes bang, but it don't hit what I want it to hit. Anyway, I went to a sight correction calculator: If I want to bull at 50 yards, and I'm 3" low, with a 16.25" sight radius, it looks like this: 3" low, 1800" to target, 16.35" sight radius = .027" front sight adj. SO. . . if I was able to make a 1.5mm (.059") front sight adjustment, that (ballparked) would take me from -3.0 and put me at +3.55" at 50 yards. assuming the 165gr/2200fps calculations above. Which, ballparked again, should give me a zero in the 200-225 yard range if my math doesn't totally suck. If I'm even remotely close to these theoretical numbers, it will at least be a gun I can work with, versus the dirt shooter I first took to the range.
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#13
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#14
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I have the smaller of the two brass bead sights from eBay.
They are some kind of Lyman sight. The smaller bead is a perfect fit for a stock rear sight, you just have to get the height right.
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#15
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Here is a noob question. I only ask because I read a discussion where someone said to drift the sight blade pin out from the right to the left. I always thought drift to remove things was always left to right but maybe because the dove tail drifts out left to right then the pin is opposite?
I'm dumb and realized I just need to drift the front sight base to the left to get the poi to the right. Just a tap while at the range should do it or maybe I'll use a small vice. I have some other front sight tools for an Enfield and another rifle that might work to shift it. Edit: I'm reading front sight bases would installed with a brazing. Is this true? If it is then I shouldn't just drift it. Last edited by Geofois; 04-05-2021 at 10:37 PM.. |
#16
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Quote:
Either way, if your carbine/cut down rifle, is shooting high, then you need to raise the front sight, not lower it. Stock front sight bases on Krag rifles and carbines are the same, only the height of the sight blade is different. This, along with a carbine rear sight will properly regulate the POI. Carbines have a taller sight blade than rifles and will have a "C" stamped on them. If you are dealing with a cut down rifle and you have a '03 Springfield front band on it you can also change out the sight blade for a taller one. The pins on all US sights remove from left to right. Here is a standard Krag front sight base: Here is a cut down rifle with a 03 Springfield style front base: If you have either an original front sight, or the 03 style, there is a very simple way to raise the height of the blade. I usually just put a few thousandths of an inch of weld on the blade and then file it down to regulate the point of impact to the point of aim to properly zero the elevation. Before you weld it, you can you can loop a piece of tape over the blade and adjust it until it is where you want it to be and then measure the height and have the appropriate amount welded on.
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#17
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Thanks Highpower, It's an original one just like in your picture. As stated I found out the zero is at 300 yards so shooting high at 50 is exactly what it's supposed to do. I will change the blade to get it to be zeroed at 100. You probably just read the last comment I made regarding it shooting to the left a little and I realized we just drift the dove tail for that but then I read it's brazed so I would think that's a no no.
Correct as stated in the post I think I need to raise it from .294 to like .33" but just guessing 1mm from the sight picture but I'd get the one for sale at .413" and just file down to where it is impacting zero at 100 yards. I think I read the Krag Carbine blade height was supposed to be .286". Someone must have filed it down since it looks more like a nubbin and in your picture it looks like a normal sight blade. Or maybe they didn't file it down since from what I read it should be 5-6 high at 50 yards. Even when I ran ballistic calculations it seems to be doing what it is supposed to but either way I need to raise the blade. Do you know about the braising of the front sight mount? Last edited by Geofois; 04-06-2021 at 9:51 AM.. |
#18
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Front sight bases were brazed to the barrel at the armory when rifles and carbines were manufactured and are not adjustable for windage. Maybe you could take a sight blade and bend it slightly one way or the other if it's not off too bad. I have heard of this being done on the old fixed sight revolvers to correct for point of aim.
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MLC member. Biden, proof that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote. Dumocraps suck balls. Last edited by highpower; 04-06-2021 at 12:28 PM.. |
#20
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If you jack it up, I have an OEM, undrilled Krag sight floating around somewhere.
Didn't end up using it on mine because it was taller than the Lyman sight that I ended up shaving, and I didn't want to grind down an OEM sight for a Bubba gun.
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#21
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Is it a sight blade or the whole sight base and blade? That would be awesome thank you. If too tall then I just need to adjust the rear sight so shouldn't need to file at all.
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