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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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  #12761  
Old 03-15-2021, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AR15fan View Post
I have a very hard time participating in the 4DHG class as itís soooo slow after having done the 2Day Skill Builder. I canít imagine it being satisfying being even slower due to less live fire. I can only imagine FS replaced live with Dry or Malfunctions. No fun.
Interestingly, I have really enjoyed the 4-day pace. Taking the weekend version means about the same number of days off work, but gives me a chance to work on details, which overall, I think has helped me considerably, if only to make me more consistent. And, I have DG'ed 5 of the last 6 times I have taken the 4DDHG class. (And the time I did not DG, I G'ed and was shooting off-hand.)

I think, if you can manage the time off, the 4 day version gives good value, and more fun, such as the "Fun House" simulator experience.

Katie
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  #12762  
Old 03-15-2021, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
Interestingly, I have really enjoyed the 4-day pace. Taking the weekend version means about the same number of days off work, but gives me a chance to work on details, which overall, I think has helped me considerably, if only to make me more consistent. And, I have DG'ed 5 of the last 6 times I have taken the 4DDHG class. (And the time I did not DG, I G'ed and was shooting off-hand.)

I think, if you can manage the time off, the 4 day version gives good value, and more fun, such as the "Fun House" simulator experience.

Katie
I agree. If I can improve and refine my skills and shoot less ammo during the shortage I see that all as a plus.

If I was just into going somewhere to simply put as many rounds down range as I wanted I'd go somewhere else, like the local range, BLM land, etc.
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  #12763  
Old 03-15-2021, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
And, I have DG'ed 5 of the last 6 times I have taken the 4DDHG class. (And the time I did not DG, I G'ed and was shooting off-hand.)

I think, if you can manage the time off, the 4 day version gives good value, and more fun, such as the "Fun House" simulator experience.

Katie
Katie- if you've DG'ed the 4 day course 5 times then it might be time for you to move up into the more "advanced" classes if you haven't already.
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  #12764  
Old 03-16-2021, 6:03 AM
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The 2 Day Handgun Skill builder class adds turning targets. That alone adds a challenge to your abilities.
My son and one of our friends are skilled shooters and have DGd the 4 day class multiple times , but can only G the 2 day SB
I can't DG either of them.

Last edited by TeamAllen; 03-16-2021 at 6:06 AM..
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  #12765  
Old 03-16-2021, 7:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
The 2 Day Handgun Skill builder class adds turning targets. That alone adds a challenge to your abilities.
My son and one of our friends are skilled shooters and have DGd the 4 day class multiple times , but can only G the 2 day SB
I can't DG either of them.
Ha! Well, I took he 2DDHG (was supposed to be a 4DDHG, but class got cut short that weekend when the NV governor shut down the state), then took the 4DDHG and only got a certificate of competition both times. Then I took the 2-day Skill Builder and got a Graduate certificate.

I agree that the 2-day Skill Builder is harder with the turning targets, but at the same time it really forces you to dial things in and sharpen your skills. Next week it's just the 4DDHG again, but I hope to DG.

I've only been shooting for a year, and don't even go to the range these days because of the current prices of ammo, hour+ waits to get a lane, etc. I have enough to hold me over for another year out so, but honestly just get more benefit from dry practice. I've improved more when I dry practice and fine tune my presentation/drawing from the holster, pinpointing areas where I'm sloppy or could be more efficient, practicing malfunction drills with a timer, etc. The shooting part is the easy part!

My first two classes I used a Beretta 92FS. The first class it was stock. The second time I added a lighter hammer spring and turned it into a decocker only and an oversized mag release, which really made things smoother and easier and love the gun now. The third class (2-Day Skill Builder) I took a 1911 and that's the class I G'd (I didn't enjoy using the 1911 for that class. PITA constantly having to flip that safety off and on every time since you carry it cocked and locked, and prefer the operation of the Beretta, but you can't really argue with the weight, feel and trigger of the 1911).

This time around I'll be bringing a Glock 17 and an XD9 for a backup. Kind of gone full circle and learned to appreciate and understand why a simple, striker fire handgun makes things easier. If I do ever DG in the handgun class with a striker fire my next goal will be to take it yet again with the Beretta and try to DG with it.
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  #12766  
Old 03-16-2021, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
The 2 Day Handgun Skill builder class adds turning targets. That alone adds a challenge to your abilities.
My son and one of our friends are skilled shooters and have DGd the 4 day class multiple times , but can only G the 2 day SB
I can't DG either of them.
True, a 4DDHG is easier to DG than HGSB with turning targets (Are there any HGSB without turning targets?) In 4DDHG, if the class is large, there is a good chance an instructor may miss your late shot. In HGSB, once the target turns, it is gone.

BTW, anyone recall my issue with a CZ Shadow 2 not passing weapons inspection? It happened again with my wife in January. The inspector said it felt too light and took it to the armorer who took it in the back and said "Nope." He said all Shadow 2's are too light for FS classes.

Here it is with an NRA-certified 4lb trigger weight:

Note the safety is off and the hammer is cocked.

Too bad my wife has moved on to a different gun, a Sarsilmaz K12 with a much stiffer trigger. Next time I take a HG class, I'll bring my NRA trigger weight in case the rifle inspector refuses to let me use his.
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  #12767  
Old 03-16-2021, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamAllen View Post
The 2 Day Handgun Skill builder class adds turning targets. That alone adds a challenge to your abilities.
My son and one of our friends are skilled shooters and have DGd the 4 day class multiple times , but can only G the 2 day SB
I can't DG either of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
True, a 4DDHG is easier to DG than HGSB with turning targets (Are there any HGSB without turning targets?) In 4DDHG, if the class is large, there is a good chance an instructor may miss your late shot. In HGSB, once the target turns, it is gone.

@beanz2 - This gives me an idea... It has been 2+ years since I did the 4DDHG, and about a year-and-a-half since THG/ATHG (mostly thanks to Covid19)... I really need to get back out there!

I am thinking of doing the 2DHGSB with a 45ACP Glock 21SF.
(Frankly, I would like to use my stash of 9s way less than the other calibers. Hence, opening up my stash of 45s)

Then follow it up with either a 2-day private OR the ATHG.



Quote:
BTW, anyone recall my issue with a CZ Shadow 2 not passing weapons inspection? It happened again with my wife in January. The inspector said it felt too light and took it to the armorer who took it in the back and said "Nope." He said all Shadow 2's are too light for FS classes.

Here it is with an NRA-certified 4lb trigger weight:
https://i.imgur.com/cetpZ1Dh.jpg
Note the safety is off and the hammer is cocked.


Too bad my wife has moved on to a different gun, a Sarsilmaz K12 with a much stiffer trigger. Next time I take a HG class, I'll bring my NRA trigger weight in case the rifle inspector refuses to let me use his.

Again??? So many issues with that gun and FS. Yeah, definitely bring the NRA weights.


_
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  #12768  
Old 03-16-2021, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post

Again??? So many issues with that gun and FS. Yeah, definitely bring the NRA weights.


_
Yes, they failed the gun the second time. The trigger measured 4+ lb with my Wheeler electronic pull gauge before we left home and still measured 4+ lb after we got back. But as they claim pull gauges are not necessarily well calibrated, I couldn't say anything until I got this NRA-certified trigger gauge.

You should see the Armorer's face when he saw Cajun Gun Works' logo on the side. I think he truly hates CZs, and CZs with CGW logo even more.
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  #12769  
Old 03-16-2021, 10:10 AM
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Yes, they failed the gun the second time. The trigger measured 4+ lb with my Wheeler electronic pull gauge before we left home and still measured 4+ lb after we got back. But as they claim pull gauges are not necessarily well calibrated, I couldn't say anything until I got this NRA-certified trigger gauge.
I really wanted to get the gauge back then... Maybe now is the time. Just for the sake of "nerdy fun."


Quote:
You should see the Armorer's face when he saw Cajun Gun Works' logo on the side. I think he truly hates CZs, and CZs with CGW logo even more.
I would loved to have seen that face...


That said - I guess they are just doing it for liability reasons...

Remember FS' motto, "ANY gun will do, if you will do..."

The fact is - handgun technology is, albeit a slow pace, is still evolving. We had those 12# revolvers, and now we have the sub 5# strikers. What is next?



Some folks will like lighter triggers, like me in competition. But in defensive weapons, a bit heavier with a wall is ideal. But not so heavy - a stock Glock at 3~5 should be good...

There was this class I took early last year - Glock's own handgun class. In the certification part of the 2-day class, I intentionally switched guns between attempts. First was a Glock 34 with stock internals; second was still a Glock 34 but with the trigger assembly from my match pistol.

There were some measurable differences BUT NOT significant to change the outcome.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9QWFlGH1jP/

In terms of the differences, splits were a bit faster with the latter setup. The trigger doesn't have the pronounced wall of the stock trigger and with very minimal creep before the break. The groups were a bit bigger with the stock setup, obviously, but still within the A-zone/0-down zone. It was still within acceptable speed/accuracy criteria.


Then again - I digress - if one is teaching thousands of students a day - I think it is all for safety/liability reasons.


_
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  #12770  
Old 03-16-2021, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
True, a 4DDHG is easier to DG than HGSB with turning targets (Are there any HGSB without turning targets?) In 4DDHG, if the class is large, there is a good chance an instructor may miss your late shot. In HGSB, once the target turns, it is gone.

BTW, anyone recall my issue with a CZ Shadow 2 not passing weapons inspection? It happened again with my wife in January. The inspector said it felt too light and took it to the armorer who took it in the back and said "Nope." He said all Shadow 2's are too light for FS classes.

Here it is with an NRA-certified 4lb trigger weight:

Note the safety is off and the hammer is cocked.

Too bad my wife has moved on to a different gun, a Sarsilmaz K12 with a much stiffer trigger. Next time I take a HG class, I'll bring my NRA trigger weight in case the rifle inspector refuses to let me use his.

So you think they will believe your trigger weight over the gunsmith's gauge?
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  #12771  
Old 03-16-2021, 10:38 AM
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So you think they will believe your trigger weight over the gunsmith's gauge?
Right? And if it failed inspection once, why the surprise when it failed a second time?!
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  #12772  
Old 03-16-2021, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
I really wanted to get the gauge back then... Maybe now is the time. Just for the sake of "nerdy fun."




I would loved to have seen that face...


That said - I guess they are just doing it for liability reasons...

Remember FS' motto, "ANY gun will do, if you will do..."

The fact is - handgun technology is, albeit a slow pace, is still evolving. We had those 12# revolvers, and now we have the sub 5# strikers. What is next?



Some folks will like lighter triggers, like me in competition. But in defensive weapons, a bit heavier with a wall is ideal. But not so heavy - a stock Glock at 3~5 should be good...

There was this class I took early last year - Glock's own handgun class. In the certification part of the 2-day class, I intentionally switched guns between attempts. First was a Glock 34 with stock internals; second was still a Glock 34 but with the trigger assembly from my match pistol.

There were some measurable differences BUT NOT significant to change the outcome.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9QWFlGH1jP/

In terms of the differences, splits were a bit faster with the latter setup. The trigger doesn't have the pronounced wall of the stock trigger and with very minimal creep before the break. The groups were a bit bigger with the stock setup, obviously, but still within the A-zone/0-down zone. It was still within acceptable speed/accuracy criteria.


Then again - I digress - if one is teaching thousands of students a day - I think it is all for safety/liability reasons.


_
I understand. They have to draw the line somewhere. That video of the 8 year old shooting her instructor in the face with the full auto Uzi is still fresh on my mind.

But then Uzis have 11 lb triggers too.
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  #12773  
Old 03-16-2021, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
So you think they will believe your trigger weight over the gunsmith's gauge?
The FS weapon inspectors are using the exact same gauge to check rifle triggers. NRA certified is certified. The fact that the gunsmith refused to show us his pull gauge reading tells me something.


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Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Right? And if it failed inspection once, why the surprise when it failed a second time?!
We sent it back to Cajun Gun Works to have the hammer and trigger spring replaced. Cajun sent it back with their readings. Cajun says it was 4 lb 3 oz.

Yes, I trust Cajun’s work more than a FS gunsmith who never worked on CZs.
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  #12774  
Old 03-17-2021, 7:00 AM
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Beanz,
it sounds like the gunsmith might just have something against "gamer" guns in their opinion. I mean, no one would carry a shadow 2, it's too big and too heavy. But 1911's another story. Lots of 1911's in 45 on the line with triggers less than 4lbs. Last time I was there my M&P with an apex trigger was about 3.5. At inspection, the guy pulled it a couple of times, said sweet trigger, and handed it back. Not sure they would say the same about my Tanfoglio Stock 2.

But at the end of the day, their place, their rules.
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  #12775  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Beanz,
it sounds like the gunsmith might just have something against "gamer" guns in their opinion. I mean, no one would carry a shadow 2, it's too big and too heavy. But 1911's another story. Lots of 1911's in 45 on the line with triggers less than 4lbs. Last time I was there my M&P with an apex trigger was about 3.5. At inspection, the guy pulled it a couple of times, said sweet trigger, and handed it back. Not sure they would say the same about my Tanfoglio Stock 2.
@Beanz, Here is the solution... Get someone to overwrite that Shadow 2 logo... Say it is the CZ 75 SP-01 2...!
I will bet that you will pass inspection. They won't even measure the pull...



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  #12776  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:35 AM
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either that or take the inspector guy to the next range and have a quick little first hit wins with him/her. Once they know you can shoot they might leave you alone
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  #12777  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
@Beanz, Here is the solution... Get someone to overwrite that Shadow 2 logo... Say it is the CZ 75 SP-01 2...!
I will bet that you will pass inspection. They won't even measure the pull...

_


Too late. My wife "rifled" through my safe and found this:



She took it to the range and fell in love with it. What is also great is that her Shadow 2 holster fits perfectly. With some shaving of the base plates, I think her CZ75/S2 magazines would work.

I might even get my Shadow 2 back.

I think I'll write FS leadership an e-mail with those pics attached and see what they say about the S2 trigger.
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  #12778  
Old 03-17-2021, 8:26 PM
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Katie- if you've DG'ed the 4 day course 5 times then it might be time for you to move up into the more "advanced" classes if you haven't already.

HA!

Yes, I have taken the next two "advanced" classes. They were the most fun I have ever had in firearms training. (Shooting from a car??? OMG!)

And, except for the first time I took the 4DDHG class, probably the most I have ever learned in a single class. If the advanced classes were taught virtually every weekend, I would take those more. But I still like the 4DDHG "Tune up..."

Katie
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  #12779  
Old 03-20-2021, 3:17 PM
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last week, FS shipped our Knights of FS program guns, they are Calf Approved RIA 45 cal Match/target guns, looked on line, and 1911 Forum, got good ratings. Will PU this Tuesday and take them to the range and see how they go.

the slides are supposed to be engraved w/ our names, but were not done due to some Calf BS, but, they have a sheet to mail the slides back to FS and have them engraved after DROS. Well see.

I am curious, did any other "Knights" outside California (who follow this forum) get their RIA 1911 program guns, and what type did they get??
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  #12780  
Old 03-20-2021, 3:54 PM
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I bet they couldn't engrave them b/c this would make the gun different than the gun that is on roster.
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Old 03-21-2021, 4:19 AM
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I bet they couldn't engrave them b/c this would make the gun different than the gun that is on roster.

This.


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  #12782  
Old 03-21-2021, 8:20 AM
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4d Shotgun course. Any issues with using a AR style shotgun like the Rock Island VR-80 and being eligible for the exam? I assume I would do the malfunctions and reloads the same way as the rifle course and want to be able to G/DG the course.
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  #12783  
Old 03-21-2021, 12:03 PM
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How did they inform you about it? I haven't seen anything yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
last week, FS shipped our Knights of FS program guns, they are Calf Approved RIA 45 cal Match/target guns, looked on line, and 1911 Forum, got good ratings. Will PU this Tuesday and take them to the range and see how they go.

the slides are supposed to be engraved w/ our names, but were not done due to some Calf BS, but, they have a sheet to mail the slides back to FS and have them engraved after DROS. Well see.

I am curious, did any other "Knights" outside California (who follow this forum) get their RIA 1911 program guns, and what type did they get??
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  #12784  
Old 03-21-2021, 12:04 PM
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Fine with me. Would prefer to not have my name engraved on it.

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I bet they couldn't engrave them b/c this would make the gun different than the gun that is on roster.
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  #12785  
Old 03-21-2021, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
last week, FS shipped our Knights of FS program guns, they are Calf Approved RIA 45 cal Match/target guns, looked on line, and 1911 Forum, got good ratings. Will PU this Tuesday and take them to the range and see how they go.

the slides are supposed to be engraved w/ our names, but were not done due to some Calf BS, but, they have a sheet to mail the slides back to FS and have them engraved after DROS. Well see.

I am curious, did any other "Knights" outside California (who follow this forum) get their RIA 1911 program guns, and what type did they get??
Have you been Knighted and presented with a sword during a Day 1 morning lecture? I saw Brad Ackman and Rick Green get Knighted and presented with their swords.
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  #12786  
Old 03-21-2021, 10:28 PM
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Are Diamond memberships still available? I bought one several years ago and would like to get one for my teenage son now that he is old enough. Thank you.
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Old 03-22-2021, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
last week, FS shipped our Knights of FS program guns, they are Calf Approved RIA 45 cal Match/target guns, looked on line, and 1911 Forum, got good ratings. Will PU this Tuesday and take them to the range and see how they go.

the slides are supposed to be engraved w/ our names, but were not done due to some Calf BS, but, they have a sheet to mail the slides back to FS and have them engraved after DROS. Well see.

I am curious, did any other "Knights" outside California (who follow this forum) get their RIA 1911 program guns, and what type did they get??
Got the same type. UPS'd slide yesterday and FS should have it by Wed.

I read the instructions while in the gun shop and the shop didn't have a barrel bushing wrench. Customers helped me partially rotate it, as i haven't done that before (not being into full-size), but i think because of match tight tolerances it was especially difficult to turn. I did have a cheap plastic bushing wrench at home, which the Knight gun destroyed (again, because of tight tolerances). Later, i watched Jon's video (link in instructions) where he says just send the whole slide in without removing barrel etc.

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Old 03-22-2021, 8:19 AM
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Got the same type. UPS'd slide yesterday and FS should have it by Wed.

I read the instructions while in the gun shop and the shop didn't have a barrel bushing wrench. Customers helped me partially rotate it, as i haven't done that before (not being into full-size), but i think because of match tight tolerances it was especially difficult to turn. I did have a cheap plastic bushing wrench at home, which the Knight gun destroyed (again, because of tight tolerances). Later, i watched Jon's video (link in instructions) where he says just send the whole slide in without removing barrel etc.

Sir Shootsalot
Did it come engraved with anything at all?
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Old 03-22-2021, 4:07 PM
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Are Diamond memberships still available? I bought one several years ago and would like to get one for my teenage son now that he is old enough. Thank you.
Many members have them available for purchase.
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Old 03-22-2021, 4:30 PM
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How did they inform you about it? I haven't seen anything yet.
Got an email and call at the same time. Pick them up tomarow, hope to take them to the range, but may be too windy.
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Old 03-22-2021, 4:34 PM
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Have you been Knighted and presented with a sword during a Day 1 morning lecture? I saw Brad Ackman and Rick Green get Knighted and presented with their swords.
Supposedly when we go to FS, we signed up for classes this June - July, so it will happen then. We got an email from FS about it a month or two ago.
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Old 03-22-2021, 4:39 PM
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Got the same type. UPS'd slide yesterday and FS should have it by Wed.

I read the instructions while in the gun shop and the shop didn't have a barrel bushing wrench. Customers helped me partially rotate it, as i haven't done that before (not being into full-size), but i think because of match tight tolerances it was especially difficult to turn. I did have a cheap plastic bushing wrench at home, which the Knight gun destroyed (again, because of tight tolerances). Later, i watched Jon's video (link in instructions) where he says just send the whole slide in without removing barrel etc.

Sir Shootsalot
Weird, I have a lot of 1911's, even two Ed Brown's, never had a problem with a bushing like that, I guess I'll see (and swear a lot) tomorrow evening.
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Old 03-22-2021, 4:40 PM
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Many members have them available for purchase.
Not many, HUNDREDS!
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Old 03-22-2021, 5:04 PM
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Not many, HUNDREDS!
Some only have hundreds!
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Old 03-22-2021, 5:21 PM
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Weird, I have a lot of 1911's, even two Ed Brown's, never had a problem with a bushing like that, I guess I'll see (and swear a lot) tomorrow evening.
Googled, read an article about this, it states to put the gun out of battery, i.e. have the barrel stick out a little, that will allow the bushing to more easily turn.
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Old 03-23-2021, 8:13 AM
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Many members have them available for purchase.
FS prohibits advertising of memberships. But i do give away (completely FREE) virtually unlimited free Front Sight training. Did i say free? Yes, FREE.

See link in my sig.
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Old 03-23-2021, 1:22 PM
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last week, FS shipped our Knights of FS program guns, they are Calf Approved RIA 45 cal Match/target guns, looked on line, and 1911 Forum, got good ratings. Will PU this Tuesday and take them to the range and see how they go.

the slides are supposed to be engraved w/ our names, but were not done due to some Calf BS, but, they have a sheet to mail the slides back to FS and have them engraved after DROS. Well see.

I am curious, did any other "Knights" outside California (who follow this forum) get their RIA 1911 program guns, and what type did they get??
Took them straight to the range, 150 rounds each, no malfunctions or problems, triggers a little heavy though.

20210323_141521.jpg

Now clean and of to FS to be engraved.
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Old 03-23-2021, 2:57 PM
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This is why I'll never attend FS.

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Defensive Handguns
What Handguns We DO NOT ALLOW

A handgun with a trigger press weight of less than 4 lbs.
All my 1911's are sub 4lbs and most of my glock pistols are sub 4lbs. My OOB Steyr M40 and M9 are around 3lbs.
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Old 03-23-2021, 3:35 PM
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This is why I'll never attend FS.



All my 1911's are sub 4lbs and most of my glock pistols are sub 4lbs. My OOB Steyr M40 and M9 are around 3lbs.
If that is the only you holding you back, it seems like a silly reason.
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Old 03-23-2021, 3:46 PM
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Took them straight to the range, 150 rounds each, no malfunctions or problems, triggers a little heavy though.

Attachment 999230

Now clean and of to FS to be engraved.
Is that rear sight sharp or did they "de-horn" it?
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