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  #1  
Old 01-12-2021, 9:09 PM
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Default ar15 eating gas rings

The 1st set of rings didn't last too long. Maybe 1k rounds before I noticed 1 out of the 3 rings was completely gone. Where it went is up to the imagination.

I replaced the rings with a random set I had laying around.

That set of rings maybe lasted about 1k. I went to clean up the bcg/bolt and it was just flopping around like a dead fish in the carrier. They were very much worn down.

The funny thing is that the rifle [even with 2 rings] never stopped operating. Still cycled just fine.

When I was cleaning up the carrier I noticed a lot of scoring marks within the bcg run [picture attached].

Is the carrier itself just f'd or should I just replace the rings with a quality set [like Sprinco] and hope for the best?
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:27 PM
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Do the test like the youtube SOTAR videos show. Stand the bcg up on the bolt on a table and see if gravity is enough to make it slide down on the bolt. If it does, it's out of spec and you prob need a new carrier.
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Old 01-12-2021, 11:09 PM
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The bore of that carrier is crap.
It looks like it never got honed.
The rings are getting slowly abraded away by the bore roughness.
I would replace the carrier.

What brand/make/manufacturer is it?
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Old 01-12-2021, 11:10 PM
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Whoes bolt and carrier? Mystery gunshow bcg? I would start by mic'ing thebolt and carrier to see if they are the proper size. Then compare the surface finish of the carrier to a know good one to see if it is excessively rough. My money is on the carrier being oversized or rough.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2021, 11:11 PM
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That's pretty low round count. Who made that BCG?
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2021, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
Whoes bolt and carrier? Mystery gunshow bcg? I would start by mic'ing thebolt and carrier to see if they are the proper size. Then compare the surface finish of the carrier to a know good one to see if it is excessively rough. My money is on the carrier being oversized or rough.
From the photo, it looks like it was never honed.
The bore looks reamed.
The carrier looks like one of the crappy nickel plated ones.
A legit milspec carrier would be honed before it was chrome lined.
They use the less expensive nickel plating on the whole carrier to avoid having to chrome line the bore and then parkerize the exterior.
Skipping honing also reduces the cost.
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  #7  
Old 01-13-2021, 9:08 AM
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It's a PSA premium bcg, got it on sale back in the day (it was like 75 bucks). I kind of regret that decision now...
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2021, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jdewolf View Post
It's a PSA premium bcg, got it on sale back in the day (it was like 75 bucks). I kind of regret that decision now...
That's "PREMIUM?!"

PSA is nice, and friendly, but they are NOT, "top tier." FYI.
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Old 01-13-2021, 4:02 PM
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Lol. Their name/description, not mine.
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2021, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
From the photo, it looks like it was never honed.
The bore looks reamed.
The carrier looks like one of the crappy nickel plated ones.
A legit milspec carrier would be honed before it was chrome lined.
They use the less expensive nickel plating on the whole carrier to avoid having to chrome line the bore and then parkerize the exterior.
Skipping honing also reduces the cost.
Thanks for the response. It's a PSA "Premium" MPI/HPT BCG. It's advertised as phosphate ext/chrome lined int. I sent a message to PSA to see if they will remedy the situation. I purchased it as a backup assembly when it was on sale like 6yrs ago. It recently got put into service and that's when all the problems started making themselves evident.
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Old 01-13-2021, 6:25 PM
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I have one of those and it's fine. Any individual part can be bad, even big money stuff. You should see the crappy KAC parts examined by SOTAR.
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2021, 6:50 PM
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PSA has a good warranty, send it back.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2021, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
PSA has a good warranty, send it back.
Submitted a request for repair/replacement. With the massive run on parts... I don't see myself getting a replacement. We'll see tho
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Old 01-13-2021, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I have one of those and it's fine. Any individual part can be bad, even big money stuff. You should see the crappy KAC parts examined by SOTAR.
I like watching SOTAR videos. I have no idea why... but it's somewhat relaxing.
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Old 01-14-2021, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdewolf View Post
Submitted a request for repair/replacement. With the massive run on parts... I don't see myself getting a replacement. We'll see tho
If this doesn't work out, you could try honing it.
Maybe a car brake hone?
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2021, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pofoo View Post
If this doesn't work out, you could try honing it.
Maybe a car brake hone?
Sunnen hone with a Y series mandrel because of the cam pin cutout.
The problem with honing it is that you are removing the chrome lining.
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Old 01-14-2021, 10:02 AM
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While it sure does look like shat, the gas rings don't seal on the portion of the bore shown in the picture. What does the rest of it look like?
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Old 01-14-2021, 2:25 PM
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Unhappy More cleaning

So he shoots a thousand rounds before he takes it apart and then wonders why stuff is wore out so soon??? That carbon builds up. Maybe I'm being to harsh with this.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2021, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
While it sure does look like shat, the gas rings don't seal on the portion of the bore shown in the picture. What does the rest of it look like?
It's only that ~1/4" stroke at the bottom of the bore than needs to be smooth.
I'm going to guess the operating area is similar if the gas rings are wearing away in 1000 rounds.
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2021, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
While it sure does look like shat, the gas rings don't seal on the portion of the bore shown in the picture. What does the rest of it look like?
The rest of the bore looks the same. I just couldn't photograph it properly because my phone camera wouldn't focus unfortunately.
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Old 01-14-2021, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunsrruss View Post
So he shoots a thousand rounds before he takes it apart and then wonders why stuff is wore out so soon??? That carbon builds up. Maybe I'm being to harsh with this.
You're somehow implying that I don't break down my rifle and clean it. My shooting might range from a few mags at the range to 500-1000 outdoors. So clearly when I'm shooting outdoors and there are no failures...
I continue to shoot...
and then I come home...
and then I clean everything...
and then I find some issues...
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Old 01-24-2021, 2:03 PM
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Dont know how many old timers are on the board, but back in the days a company called Nesard used to sell AR parts in Shotgun News. Had my 1st AR built off a cheap Nesard parts kit.

I have to say, Randall is right on the money with his assessment of an out of spec bolt carrier causing the problem. The bolt in my cheap kit headspaceed ok, but I wore out gas rings after 200 rounds. Had to get a new bolt carrier and it stopped the problem.

The bore of the Nesard carrier had a lot of rough machining marks, but it was also too big. With the bolt in the carrier, you could grab the bolt head and there was a significant amount of movement.
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptmn View Post
Dont know how many old timers are on the board, but back in the days a company called Nesard used to sell AR parts in Shotgun News. Had my 1st AR built off a cheap Nesard parts kit.

I have to say, Randall is right on the money with his assessment of an out of spec bolt carrier causing the problem. The bolt in my cheap kit headspaceed ok, but I wore out gas rings after 200 rounds. Had to get a new bolt carrier and it stopped the problem.

The bore of the Nesard carrier had a lot of rough machining marks, but it was also too big. With the bolt in the carrier, you could grab the bolt head and there was a significant amount of movement.
Ah yes, Nesard. Bought my 1st AR kit from them back in 1989. The mag release button was plastic. When I installed it, the threads stripped out and it went shooting across the room. Never did find it but did find the spring. The handguard retaining ring was also plastic. The upper receiver and fcg were junk. After about 20 rounds, it would start firing bursts. However, I had no problems with the barrel and bcg other than a weak extractor spring which caused many jams. Thanks to the Great Western Gun Show, I was able to replace the upper, fcg, and other misc. parts. I'm still shooting it with no problems of concern. Back then, we didn't have the internet so I had to work through the problems myself. It took me a few months.
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Old 02-24-2021, 7:24 AM
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Nesard was Jerry Drasen. He kept changing the letters of his name for each new company. Drasen, Nesard, Sendra, and probably many others. Also had some association with SGW, Olympic Arms, Model 1 and others. Just like back in the early sixties with commercial carbine production. Golden State, Natl Ord, Fed Ord, AR Sales and others were just different phones across the desk or across the street.
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Old 02-24-2021, 8:01 AM
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Yup, more than my Nesard bolt carrier in that parts kit were junk. The disconnect was soft and wore out real fast, causing doubling. The range master at the public range heard it and had me stop firing so he could take a look at the cause. I was able to get a new disconnect immediately upon the range master's recommendation of legal consequences.

The finish on the upper receiver reminded me of drywall texture with a black finish over it and the charging handle had a purplish/black hue.

Several years later, I replaced the entire FCG with Bushmaster parts, since they listed them in Shotgun News(pre internet).

I still have the CAR-15 A1 upper from that kit, but I use it strictly as a 22lr upper with a subcaliber conversion kit.

That old Nesard kit was my first learning experience about not buying cheap firearms parts. I bought it back in 1989 or 1990 when I was a young private that was appalled by the Army standard of only going to the range 1x a year to qualify, not train. 3 years later I got away from that madness when I went to and passed tryouts to get a spot on the Special Warfare Training Detachment and never looked back at the conventional Army again.
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Old 02-24-2021, 8:20 AM
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Assuming you're starting out with a decent milspec upper, always buy a quality barrel & BCG. You can skimp on any other part but these. Stay away from anything not Milspec. There is a reason the military wants things hard chrome-lined.
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Old 02-24-2021, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Nesard was Jerry Drasen. He kept changing the letters of his name for each new company. Drasen, Nesard, Sendra, and probably many others. Also had some association with SGW, Olympic Arms, Model 1 and others. Just like back in the early sixties with commercial carbine production. Golden State, Natl Ord, Fed Ord, AR Sales and others were just different phones across the desk or across the street.
Sendra was a manufacturer. Among other stuff, they made registered M-16's, or at least the lowers.

Model 1 was called something else too, can't remember what. They had old beat-to-crap M16 parts sets that nobody wanted. Of course, these days those "vintage" parts would be worth a fortune.
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Old 02-24-2021, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptmn View Post
Yup, more than my Nesard bolt carrier in that parts kit were junk. The disconnect was soft and wore out real fast, causing doubling. The range master at the public range heard it and had me stop firing so he could take a look at the cause. I was able to get a new disconnect immediately upon the range master's recommendation of legal consequences.
Ya, I got that lecture also at the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club though it wasn't the range master. It was some guy shooting a few benches away. He wasn't even nice about it. I think he was jealous. I wasn't very knowledgeable about how the AR worked back then and was just scratching my head trying to figure out what was going on. I ended up shooting the rest of the day by dropping in 1 round at a time. My upper didn't fit too well on my lower but was able to make it work with some filing. The outer wall of the forward assist was thin and my mission at the next gun show was to see if it was normal. I found a Colt upper and couldn't get my credit card out fast enough. That cheap $400 AR kit ended up costing me about $600 after replacing junk parts but finally ended up with a solid rifle. When I called Nesard, not really knowing what to ask and what to look for in a kit, I asked what was the source of the parts. They told me that the parts were surplus from a military contractor. Probably Fabrique Nationale (FN). Sounded good enough for me. I realized later on that the parts may have been mil surplus, but were probably the rejects.

Now to get back to the OP, the lesson learned is beware of cheap parts. However, cheap doesn't always mean junk. Sometimes you get lucky.

Last edited by george223; 02-24-2021 at 11:29 AM..
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  #29  
Old 02-24-2021, 5:35 PM
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Apologies for a thread hijack, but what is a decent quality bolt and carrier group these days?
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  #30  
Old 02-25-2021, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c good View Post
Apologies for a thread hijack, but what is a decent quality bolt and carrier group these days?
EDIT: This is not my list, but a good reference - and if you want a quality part, QC standards are the most important thing to inspect.

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  #31  
Old 02-25-2021, 10:49 PM
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Dang, that list is pretty harsh. Just about every rifle I own is in the poverty section. I must be lucky because all of them run like poop through a goose. Basic PMCS goes a long way.
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