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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'. |
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Southern California Hospitals rationing personal protective equipment
I work for a large group of hospitals ...our ER doctors and nurses are reporting they are rationing masks and protective gowns to staff as the number of cases of patients with coronavirus infection go up. We have not received new shipments of these needed equipment and we are worried we will not be ready if "Italy levels" of sick patients arrive. We might get a portion of supplies being released from the National Strategic Reserves but that's a big if. Some of our staff have bought protective equipment on their own for exorbitant prices. I do get to talk to our northern California er doctors and they have the same issues. As of now we agree that we are not ready for a surge of cases . Unless State and Federal government rally and help provide resources to our hospitals there will be a continued shortage until SHTF. Just a heads up... 2 weeks we'll know if it does go to the "Italy levels".
Last edited by 24mech; 03-16-2020 at 1:28 AM.. Reason: proofreading |
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I have been blowing that same whistle for awhile.
America has been caught with its pants down. Where are the masks? One Hospital getting it from another Hospital because the supplier has none. Is not comforting. Last edited by tsmithson; 03-16-2020 at 2:02 AM.. |
#3
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The masks and gowns were sold off to china for profit last January at the height of their crisis. . And now we're paying for it. We're paying for it also that a lot of the production lines for Personal protection equipment is in china.
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SF Bay Area is calling shelter-in-place. This needs to be national, but we’ll wait until the horse has left the barn if the politics are any indication. |
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Realistically we feel that we are in Italy levels. We believe we should have locked down a while ago and the current actions now being done it's just trying to flatten the curve as fast as possible. The real numbers are not showing because of the lack of testing kits. We are dealing with a lot more PUIs for the past 3 nights i've been on duty than the previous days last week. We haven't gone on a "War Footing " yet in the area hospitals...only Cedar Sinai and Kaiser is the one i know that ordered non essential support staff to work from home.
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#7
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My daughter is in Medical School, a week ago, the M3's doing clinical were put on the sidelines because the hospital was hoarding PPE's and only issued them for active workers, M3's are dividing by zero with nothing to do. Not a good situation if we get a big spike and they need body's with medical training.
My buddy in a Big SoCal hospital, because of all the kids out school, is having staffing problems, day care, tween and teen care has become an issue as both parents work in the medical field. Quote:
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez Last edited by Californio; 03-17-2020 at 9:29 AM.. |
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Mojave Lever Crew Member "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris Slava Ukraini (Слава Україні) |
#12
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That's what you signed up for when you took the oath of office. Doesn't matter if you're a Republican (See W and 9/11, Katrina) or a Democrat (See O and Louisiana, ISIS). If it happened on your watch, you're to blame. It's not an easy job.
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My oldest daughter is married to a Marine who is stationed at Quantico, VA. She is a licensed Pharmacist Assistant and works at a chemotherapy clinic nearby.
She is required to wear a mask while working. Her employer is providing only one package of (disposable) masks per month to support 5 people. Ridiculous.
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Just taking up space in (what is no longer) the second-worst small town in California. |
#15
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He has referred to the coronavirus as “their new hoax” the democrats are using to demonize him.
The president has consistently minimized the virus and the problem, he has talked about expectations that it the virus count would go down when every reputable doctor and epidemiologist told him it wouldn’t, and he indicated there was never a shortage of supplies or testing kits (when those in the healthcare system who know have been ringing the alarm). He only stopped minimizing the problem when the markets tanked and he saw that he couldn’t reverse them, so now he’s positioning himself as a “wartime president.” But he’s STILL not taking decisive action and we’re losing lives. I work in an ER. Most ERs and ICUs are not using the level of protection we need because of supply shortages in which most PPEs will be exhausted in a matter of weeks. Trump can pivot all he wants on this one, his denials of the problem, lack of attention to shortages and needs, and late acknowledgment of the scope has put us WAY behind the 8-ball on this and the death toll is going to reflect it. |
#16
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Well. We’ve reached 10k cases. A bit earlier than Italy’s case surge so **** Hit the Fans already. We’re gonna be all in the trenches soon. My group of hospitals recently retired ER docs have been told to get ready to get called back. I’ve been told to get ready to go back. Good luck NoNamethanks since you work in the ER. I’ll keep you guys posted from our perspective as the cases pile up. BTW we still are rationing PPEs. State promised major shipments of supplies but not till next week- no determined date .
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I have be told that they are discussing M4, fourth year Med Students, may not have to that their boards because of the virus and be immediately pressed into service, if this actually takes place, we will all know how scared, underprepared and overwelmed the hospital system really is.
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez |
#18
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My hospital is also contacting retired folks. And I’ve been touched by how many calls we’ve had from retired folks looking to help. We’re trying to work on contingency plans and have retired folks help out with telehealth and the like. I don’t like the idea of putting a 75 year old retired doc in what the ERs are about to look like, but if we can have them help out with the lower acuity outpatient stuff and put the outpatient FP and internist into the ED, that would be awesome. The PPE issue is very interesting and the reaction shows the geographic differences. I’m on a few online medical forums and hearing about docs and nurses using N95s for every visit in some rural areas and saying they would NEVER see a COVID-19 case with anything less (and would contact OSHA if asked to). In California, at least up my way, we are treating COVID-19 cases with surgical masks and reserving N95s for central lines, intubation and prolonged close contact. Is this ideal? No. But neither is running out of N95s in another week. Take good care, 24mech. |
#19
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#20
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Trump took a lot of criticism for stopping travel from China to the US early in the crisis. In January, President Trump banned all foreign nationals who were in China during the time of the coronavirus outbreak from entering the United States. Many pundits and health experts have since credited this decision with helping to slow the coronavirus pandemic on American shores.Even the WHO Chief was critical of travel bans. From a Feb 3 article: WHO chief says widespread travel bans not needed to beat China virusThat decision to restrict travel is why we are seeing less spread of the disease here in the states than in much of Europe. He has not minimized the virus as much as he has tried to contain the panic the media is spreading. You see the results of that panic anytime you go to a grocery store. As for masks, 5 million were to be distributed by the DOD announced yesterday with 1 million immediately released. The administration has implemented the Defense Production Act to increase production of PPE and announced today getting rid of roadblocks where hospitals could not buy such products directly from the manufacturers. China did not announce the new virus until January 7 and they have been all that forthcoming since. WHO announced an emergency on January 30 and Trump announced his China travel ban the next day. Fauci has said over and over that he has never seen the system work as rapidly as it has in this case, we are just about a month and a half since this was declared to be an emergency. We are seeing a spread of low post count people on this board. You are not here because of guns. You are just here to spout unfounded anti-Trump rhetoric.
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Mojave Lever Crew Member "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris Slava Ukraini (Слава Україні) |
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Mojave Lever Crew Member "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris Slava Ukraini (Слава Україні) |
#22
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I'm curious why the President has a responsibility regarding PPE for hospital staff. A pandemic of one sort or another has been talked about for decades. Seems to me that the hospital and/or their networked facilities should bear the responsibility for adequately stocking PPE amongst other necessary supplies and material for just such a situations. Same goes for the grocery business, etc. True, the government has a obligation for aiding state and local agencies for disaster relief issues, but running out of PPE after a few weeks would appear as poor planning on the part of the hospital (medical community at-large).
I could be full of horse feathers for sure of my observations here, but having been the Disaster Preparedness Officer for the largest naval base in the US (many years ago), emergency plans are based on worse case scenarios and an additional percentage for loss, defect and damage. We planned for contingencies of months and years, not weeks/months. Leaders and administrators are likely to fail when profits take precedence over mission readiness. Please help me understand if I'm missing something here. Great discussion thus far.
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Lead, Follow or get the Hell out of the way! "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." PATRICK HENRY Last edited by BB-Stacker; 03-19-2020 at 12:08 PM.. |
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Producing product where it’s neededAs a business owner I do understand that supply cannot always keep up demand. Back in 2007 I was routinely telling customers there was a six week backorder for my products. You simply cannot count on being able to ramp up production at the drop of the hat. You are limited to the capital in workforce (Human Capital), raw materials (Natural Capital) and the machines/equipment required to produce the product (Physical Capital), that you have on hand as well as the time you have available each day for production. You don't build a successful business model by converting Financial Capital to those above to the point where you can easily over-saturate the market. https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/...el-coronavirus
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Mojave Lever Crew Member "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris Slava Ukraini (Слава Україні) Last edited by Den60; 03-19-2020 at 12:30 PM.. |
#24
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Trump latest move deregulated millions of N95 masks that previously were limited to construction work uses, think paint respirators. Additionally, they have found more ventilators and a way to repurpose others slated for elective surgery. They now have directed private industry to produce PPEs, including ventilators. Within a couple of weeks there should be ample supply. I am happy they moved so quick and aggressively, if Hillary was at the helm they would still be arguing about which identity of person should be the face of the gov't response, a fat black lady, a fat gay black guy, a soy boy millennial with ear rings and tatoos. Love the Trump transparency. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5EHxsuPSl8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qm_6TXnWhM
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Protect public lands access http://www.backcountryhunters.org/ |
#25
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My wife(rn) got into a argument with her supervisor. Her hospital is telling staff to not use masks and to ration them out... please sign this petition!!!
https://www.change.org/p/hospital-ad...5231975db54079 |
#26
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Propane |
#27
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Many comments about the stock market and focus on how to inject money into the local economy but complete failure on supporting medical efforts. repeated promise about testing kids imminent and millions to be done and instead we got a half-baked federal response without emphasis or plans. The lack of testing (which continues) is going to result in many thousands or tens of thousands more lives. As is the failure to implement federal-level restrictions rather than wait for local governments (not that local governments are given that guidance, see lack of leadership). Quote:
I’d disagree on ANY hospital, medical or otherwise, being prepped to handle something like this. No hospital system can maintain staffing or equipment to manage it. We rely on mitigation and suppression so that the system isn’t overwhelmed. And we never got that. Not a single federal restriction for stay-at-home, which would have saved tens of thousands of lives. This is not an anti-Trump screed. It’s an anti-this-administrations response screed. I’m not aware of any other country’s government (including Italy) that has handled it as poorly as ours. And we’ll see the results in the next couple of weeks. I’d be delighted to be wrong. Anywho, just supplying information. No desire to debate. If other frontline docs have differing takes or recommendations, I’d be happy to hear them. I’m not hearing anyone praise the administrations response that I know of that’s actually trying to fix this mess of our own creation. |
#28
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Come back here in 2 weeks and tell me about all the N95’s everyone is using in the ERs. I’ll be delighted to be proven wrong. Quick and aggressive would have been decisive action weeks ago for testing and supplies. He waited until we created an unnecessary crisis. Oi. The scene on the ground is very different from Fox News and Breitbart. |
#29
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I work for a city that has its own health department. There are only three in the state. Therefore we get pretty quick notification on status of stuff.
With the state of emergency, all supply orders go through the county health department, or in my case, the city. That is for all the hospitals, clinics etc have to request supplies through the new chain of command. Her supervisors are stupidvisors, and dont know how to operate under these conditions. So yes they are running low, they have to request through the chain, and use the supplies wisely. They cant just "mask" us like they used to.
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Propane |
#30
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No. As someone who orders EMS, and emergency supplies I can tell you that once you put EMS, or RESCUE on an item, it doubles in price. I have ordered N95 masks online suppliers that have a different SKU number, but is the EXACT same product that is sold in lowes for 1/2 the price.
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Propane Last edited by Jongage; 03-19-2020 at 6:49 PM.. |
#31
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My daughter has been online only, for two weeks, the M3's and M4's are dividing by zero because of the PPE shortage in her AO. The discussion of putting M4's directly in the line of fire was this week, I would assume some negotiations with the licensing board and insurance companies are happening? If it does happen, I will post it.
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez Last edited by Californio; 03-19-2020 at 4:25 PM.. |
#32
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My wife gets one mask a day, which means going from patient to patient with the same outfit. Someone sneezed on her today and they refused to give her a new mask. I bought a few boxes after the last fire.
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#33
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Here is the important part: While 3M manufactures millions of respirators per month at its production facilities, we expect demand for respirators and other supplies to outpace supply for the foreseeable future.You can, once again, ignore the link below. https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/...el-coronavirus
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Mojave Lever Crew Member "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris Slava Ukraini (Слава Україні) |
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And interesting math. |
#37
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Back to work. Still the same issues- from private hospitals, to the big group of hospitals, and also the far flung isolated ones it's the same problem...no masks/PPEs yet. Some hospitals are telling their staff not to bring their own masks on penalty of termination because they are not hospital approved. They are rationing out the masks / PPEs. One good thing is ERs are still reporting lower than normal bull**** cases and they are dedicating whole units as covid areas. Test kits are slowly becoming more common. Sooooo... if those damned PPEs and masks come in then our frontliners have a chance and so does our patients.
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#38
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You can thank Obama for not replenishing the supplies.
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#39
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I get it the hospital systems are a mess right now due to a ton of fear. I'm also a doc for a major hospital system up north. We are practically locking out clinicians that want to visit us due to lack of PPE and limiting exposure. Everyone is scared and everyone is pissed off at China. Last edited by miglo; 03-26-2020 at 2:24 AM.. |
#40
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You are being ridiculous with your expectations. You ignore the fact China and the WHO has been hiding just how dangerous this actually was. I suppose Hillary or Biden would have been a better choice in your mind on handling this. I'm sure if Trump came up with a 100% cure you would complain he is putting infectious disease out of business. |
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