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  #281  
Old 10-01-2019, 9:46 PM
Kate Kate is offline
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Originally Posted by Can'thavenuthingood
Girls, we need more girls.


Most on point comment in the entire thread. I agree with you 10000%. total sausage measuring contest here, and the fairer sex is nowhere near represented.
(Kate please come back)



I was going to tell Can't, "AMEN!!" More women would be great here, i think. But perhaps I think so for different reasons than you...

And, although my opinion should be weighed by the number of posts I have here, I sort of agree with Zorba about trying to encourage a more diverse community here. (Although, personally I don't think HOW Zorba shared his message was very effective...)

And, as a total change of thought here: If you really want more girls here, and that was not just humor, I would suggest writing in all threads should reflect that women ARE here reading and listening. MovieZombie warned me that one needed thick skin to survive on this forum. She was sooooo right...

Maybe "pleasant" is not desired here, but I think this forum would be much more pleasant if everyone pretended that their 17 year old daughter was watching every single thing one typed...

Kate
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  #282  
Old 10-02-2019, 7:06 AM
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Maybe "pleasant" is not desired here, but I think this forum would be much more pleasant if everyone pretended that their 17 year old daughter was watching every single thing one typed...

Kate
Kate, good morning.

The issue is probably the number of those posting here is right around the age of 17, maybe a bit less.
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  #283  
Old 10-02-2019, 9:56 AM
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Kate, good morning.

The issue is probably the number of those posting here is right around the age of 17, maybe a bit less.



Yes, through the years I've wondered what our demographic makeup is.
Attending the SSZS and a few Glass Factory events indicates the ages are fairly evenly spread out.
It is anecdotal evidence though, not an accurate age count.


Vick
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  #284  
Old 10-02-2019, 2:52 PM
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More women would be great here, i think. But perhaps I think so for different reasons than you...

Kate
Oh?! please expand upon this perspective.

I've met so few women shooters, though the ones I've met and/or friends with are equally or even more enthused about their choices of guns. So basically they behave exactly like us guys but are females, and their motives in owning/shooting firearms are exactly the same as everyone else's.

To be honest, I've always imagined cheesy stereotypes painting some 'damsel in distress' picture, or 'emancipated/empowered' babe types - which is sometimes fun for us guys to fantasize about, but in my reality this hasn't been the case at all. They are all as dorky/nerdy/obsessive as the guys when it comes to guns.

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I think this forum would be much more pleasant if everyone pretended that their 17 year old daughter was watching every single thing one typed...
I do have a young daughter and she'll probably think 80% of what I wrote (if she can read) is lame or mean. damn you.
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Last edited by hillsidehutz; 10-02-2019 at 3:01 PM.. Reason: typo
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  #285  
Old 10-02-2019, 6:39 PM
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I've met two rifle shooting women at Camp Pendleton events. One was national marine champ, the other a future national champ. They both won the matches. Not really damsel in distress.
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  #286  
Old 10-03-2019, 8:04 AM
Kate Kate is offline
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Originally Posted by hillsidehutz View Post
Oh?! please expand upon this perspective.

I've met so few women shooters, though the ones I've met and/or friends with are equally or even more enthused about their choices of guns. So basically they behave exactly like us guys but are females, and their motives in owning/shooting firearms are exactly the same as everyone else's.
So that is why I think more women here would be good. More people on this forum would realize that women can like guns, own guns, and shoot guns just like men can.

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Originally Posted by hillsidehutz View Post

To be honest, I've always imagined cheesy stereotypes painting some 'damsel in distress' picture, or 'emancipated/empowered' babe types - which is sometimes fun for us guys to fantasize about, but in my reality this hasn't been the case at all. They are all as dorky/nerdy/obsessive as the guys when it comes to guns.
While the motivations might be similar, I am not a gun-nut in any way. I AM dorky and nerdy, but not even close to obsessive about guns. I have (male) friends who seem to know every detail about every nuance. They talk about the ballistic differences between a .243 and a .268 bullet. Um. I don't care. I care about does it fit my hands? Does it fit where it needs to go? Can I hold the silly thing? Can I even pull the trigger without mashing down to the left?

Perhaps having more women on CG normalizes the range of motivations for being here. (And, tying to the subject of this thread, I hope CG works to grow a wider base...)


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Originally Posted by hillsidehutz View Post
I do have a young daughter and she'll probably think 80% of what I wrote (if she can read) is lame or mean. damn you.
Sorry.

And, thinking about your daughter... Over in the OT sub-forum, a police officer is found guilty of murder, and the victim's brother forgives and hugs the police officer. There is SO much to say about that. But it took perhaps 3 responses for someone to talk about the officer's "trailer" or "toilet." When your daughter reads that thread, do YOU want to explain to her where the "trailer" is in that picture?
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  #287  
Old 10-03-2019, 9:40 AM
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I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

There's no way to deny or candy coat the fact that we're in a bad place. As gun owners we're a 'safe target' for politicians, our rights are teetering on the edge of non-existence and frankly unless we're talking about social media where everyone's a 'no compromise' activist we're about as silent as a whipped dog who doesn't want to be hit again.

We've had some truly tragic events recently, Gilroy, El Paso and Dayton, and while we as gun owners mourn the senseless loss of life the politicians who see our freedoms as something 'in the way' of their ability to control our lives use these tragedies as stepping stones towards their desire for a disarmed America.

We talk a good game when we have a win, Freedom Week was great and everyone was all ready to go all Gadsden over their new magazines, but what happened a week or two later? The big discussions were over which companies hadn't delivered yet and what we'd been 'lucky enough to score'.

When it comes right down to it maybe 5-8 out of every 100 gun owners is willing to do anything more than send in a membership check and then complain that nothing is being done.

Yes, organizations like CRPA and NRA are fighting hard for us in the courts and despite the super-majority the anti-civil rights Democrats hold in California the CRPA and NRA have full time lobbyists in Sacramento trying to prevent bad bills from becoming bad laws. But the real question becomes is all we can do is let them carry our water and hope they win?

There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

Things have changed, there's no denying it. The laws we face are worse than ever, many of us are 'represented' by the same Democrat anti-civil rights politicians that propose eliminating our Constitutional rights and it's very reasonable to be doubtful that they will listen to us at all. The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?

I've stated my position numerous times, I'm going to fight until I'm dead and I don't care who listens or doesn't I'm going to yell as loud as I can. While I do think that we hit a point of diminishing returns a while ago in regards to contacting our Legislators I still think it's useful to do so to remind them we haven't gone away or given up if nothing else.

I think the future of our fight is twofold, litigation via orgs like CRPA and NRA especially now that the face of the 9th is being changed by new appointments and by working through the electoral process. Yes, we're outnumbered but there is still a LOT of us here and people are voting less each election which means win or lose our voice can stand out as something to be reckoned with. We're not going to change things quickly or everywhere all at once, we need to try to make changes locally first.


As I said I've stated my thoughts numerous times but my thoughts aren't what count, your thoughts are what I need to hear.

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
I've always tried to focus Calguns as a place where all are welcome and with a goal of working for our 2A rights, I've tried to keep Calguns workplace and family friendly so we could reach the next generation of gun owners and 2A supporters, I've tried to keep Calguns open to all points of view, Republican, Democrat, pro-2A and anti-2A with all having a voice as long as it is a civil voice.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?


We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.
A lot of the circumstances that you mentioned in your OP, are part of a long list of losses to the gun owners of both America and California.

Living in California, I have no hope that any activism will change the ideological hostility of a Democrat legislator. As a whole, the Democratic party stands for banning firearms. My hope is the Supreme Court, starts accepting Second Amendment cases, and that President Trump does something to push the issue of the Second Amendment onto the national stage, such as a national right to carry.

I do not see Calguns as a political force. Its a place for gunowners to hang out on the internet. The forums are appropriately labeled and organized and cover all aspects of gun ownership. The OT, is a great resource. The wide range of topics discussed can be informative. People ask for help, and there is no shortage of people giving advice. The humor is first rate. Those who do not like it, can easily avoid the forum or a specific thread or a specific post! Do not allow vulgarity or pictures that are not family friendly. In addition to the rule that posts not be rude, I would be in favor of adding that posts have to be tactful.
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  #288  
Old 10-03-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
A lot of the circumstances that you mentioned in your OP, are part of a long list of losses to the gun owners of both America and California.

Living in California, I have no hope that any activism will change the ideological hostility of a Democrat legislator. As a whole, the Democratic party stands for banning firearms. My hope is the Supreme Court, starts accepting Second Amendment cases, and that President Trump does something to push the issue of the Second Amendment onto the national stage, such as a national right to carry.

I do not see Calguns as a political force. Its a place for gunowners to hang out on the internet. The forums are appropriately labeled and organized and cover all aspects of gun ownership. The OT, is a great resource. The wide range of topics discussed can be informative. People ask for help, and there is no shortage of people giving advice. The humor is first rate. Those who do not like it, can easily avoid the forum or a specific thread or a specific post! Do not allow vulgarity or pictures that are not family friendly. In addition to the rule that posts not be rude, I would be in favor of adding that posts have to be tactful.


Gotta say, I've used CG as a resource for virtually EVERYTHING from BBQing, to sound design, to what medicine to give my kid, to almost ANYTHING you could think about. I've put funny things out there to see, questions, and so much more. I take virtually NONE of it seriously, but it IS in fact a great resource if you understand that you can't take it literally.
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  #289  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:23 AM
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I know several members have brought up "Meets and Greets" type of "get to gathers".

Since Calgun's membership is mainly state wide, practically, the state should be divided in regions and then by county or population density. More of a local activity versus an entire state.

Example: I'm in North San Diego County. If interested in any forth coming events, I check Region "X", that includes San Diego County and surrounding area and see that an event is will be held in Poway. If interested, I RSVP.

People just are not going to drive long distances for a "get together barbeque" or a show and tell firearm display/shoot on a regular basis.

Even local events soon become troublesome over time for various reasons, but mainly it's the same people doing the work and organizing.

It might be worth a try and gauge the effectiveness over a couple of years.

Yes I realize this is a large state and division into regions may be daunting in itself.

Just a thought.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #290  
Old 10-03-2019, 1:34 PM
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Gotta say, I've used CG as a resource for virtually EVERYTHING from BBQing, to sound design, to what medicine to give my kid, to almost ANYTHING you could think about. I've put funny things out there to see, questions, and so much more. I take virtually NONE of it seriously, but it IS in fact a great resource if you understand that you can't take it literally.
Same here. I have gotten good advice on situations that life throws at you, and car repair, appliance repair and a few other needs. That is why I try to contribute my expertise, which is in family law and litigation.
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  #291  
Old 10-03-2019, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
I know several members have brought up "Meets and Greets" type of "get to gathers".

Since Calgun's membership is mainly state wide, practically, the state should be divided in regions and then by county or population density. More of a local activity versus an entire state.

Example: I'm in North San Diego County. If interested in any forth coming events, I check Region "X", that includes San Diego County and surrounding area and see that an event is will be held in Poway. If interested, I RSVP.

People just are not going to drive long distances for a "get together barbeque" or a show and tell firearm display/shoot on a regular basis.

Even local events soon become troublesome over time for various reasons, but mainly it's the same people doing the work and organizing.

It might be worth a try and gauge the effectiveness over a couple of years.

Yes I realize this is a large state and division into regions may be daunting in itself.

Just a thought.

Respectfully
Kyle
I am with you on this. Meet and greets would be a good idea. Going shooting adds another couple of factors. Most shooting areas are too distant, and meeting at a range; well not everyone may be a member which is usually a requirement to shoot at the range. BTW, you are one of the calgunners that I look forward to meeting.
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  #292  
Old 10-03-2019, 1:42 PM
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Two thoughts:

1.
Broaden the base. We need to appeal and reach out to everyone of all walks of life. That means we need to keep the site clean and family friendly. Meaningful change comes from people getting together and deciding what is important, it's definitely not from divisiveness and closed-mindedness.

2.
The gun has been vilified, and that's the real problem. We need to go back to basics and remind the public what the gun's role has been in the past and its future in shaping our society.

Opponents of gun ownership would prefer society believe the police and military can solve all of our problems. We know this to be false, but arguing the case with rhetoric and anger does not win the debate.

While I agree the courts will decide what is Just, I believe public opinion matters more to reduce future Bills and litigation.

I for one would love to see campaigns celebrating the guns legacy and its practical application for everyone day to day. Does anyone remember the old Honda motorcycle ad from the 1960's? "You meet the nicest people on a Honda." That ad changed public opinion on the whole concept of who rides a motorcycle.

The same can, and should be done for gun ownership. We're nice people too. The public sees the face of gun ownership as a Hillbilly "clinging to his bible and gun." Battling gun control really starts with how others see us, and thereby our principles.

Don't get me wrong. 2A activism is great, but let's face the fact that not all members have the time or grit to take up such a fight. We need to explore and invest our time with multiple ways of combating the problem.

A good start may be to require annual membership. Then everyone on this forum would have some "skin in the game." The money can be used in ads and other such educational tools to change public perception.
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  #293  
Old 10-03-2019, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
Over in the OT sub-forum, a police officer is found guilty of murder, and the victim's brother forgives and hugs the police officer. There is SO much to say about that. But it took perhaps 3 responses for someone to talk about the officer's "trailer" or "toilet." When your daughter reads that thread, do YOU want to explain to her where the "trailer" is in that picture?
Pretty vile comments out there in OT. Some useful threads, but boy do I have to rummage through so much nonsense. I don't care about venturing that way again. Don't get me wrong, there's similar online behavior on my side of the aisle as well, so in a sense, ****-posting and trolling for the sake of trolling is the problem, not necessarily the topics of discussion. Just blatant inconsiderate behavior.

We cannot possibly expect to be family friendly here in Calguns if we can't even be genuinely friendly or at least civil toward one another.


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Originally Posted by RedDawn View Post
We're nice people too. The public sees the face of gun ownership as a Hillbilly "clinging to his bible and gun." Battling gun control really starts with how others see us, and thereby our principles.
I also find this is true. But at least in CA, I do wish shooters/gunwoners are more willing to frame and express their own identity/individuality instead of prescribing oneself onto a set stereotype. I want to believe that as individuals we are richer than that.
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  #294  
Old 10-03-2019, 7:00 PM
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So that is why I think more women here would be good. More people on this forum would realize that women can like guns, own guns, and shoot guns just like men can.







While the motivations might be similar, I am not a gun-nut in any way. I AM dorky and nerdy, but not even close to obsessive about guns. I have (male) friends who seem to know every detail about every nuance. They talk about the ballistic differences between a .243 and a .268 bullet. Um. I don't care. I care about does it fit my hands? Does it fit where it needs to go? Can I hold the silly thing? Can I even pull the trigger without mashing down to the left?



Perhaps having more women on CG normalizes the range of motivations for being here. (And, tying to the subject of this thread, I hope CG works to grow a wider base...)









Sorry.



And, thinking about your daughter... Over in the OT sub-forum, a police officer is found guilty of murder, and the victim's brother forgives and hugs the police officer. There is SO much to say about that. But it took perhaps 3 responses for someone to talk about the officer's "trailer" or "toilet." When your daughter reads that thread, do YOU want to explain to her where the "trailer" is in that picture?
So, curious here. In your eyes, are we supposed to completely change CGN to be more inclusive to liberal women like you?
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  #295  
Old 10-03-2019, 8:24 PM
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So, curious here. In your eyes, are we supposed to completely change CGN to be more inclusive to liberal women like you?

That, and if you look HONESTLY in the liberal forums, places they congregate and such, you'll find that most of them are VILE people who only think about themselves and their ideology.

The comments and fetishes about killing nazis, the way they talk about dragging repubs through the mud, and generally just foul language, it's kind of funny. They wear dirty vagina hats, scream about killing babies, and constantly drop f-bombs throughout their threads. I don't even want to HEAR about guys being so nice it hurts, being these purposely aware men who are conscious about their every thought. Libs do everything they can to make sure they gross out the conservatives with the gay agenda (yes it is an agenda) curse words, vag hats, and whose dirty hole they are putting it in and where, and what gender they're going to be while doing it. SO over it!!!
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  #296  
Old 10-03-2019, 8:49 PM
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Over the past month have been reading everything that's been posted here, but held back from responding because I didn't want to influence anything but now I think it's time to respond.



First off I am glad to see so many want to stay the course, I'll be honest I was hoping for that but wasn't sure that would be the consensus. I'd like to address everything that has been brought up but that would take a very long post so I'm going to stick with the high points.



Focus on a single ideology/limit discussion and interaction to strictly pro 2A:



This is deceptively attractive, it's easy to listen to those we agree with and even easier to dismiss or lock out those we disagree with. Not only does this avoid having our views challenged it 'reinforces' them.

It also blinds us and denies us opportunities to educate and share our views outside our circle.

However this openness comes with a cost and responsibility. We have to actually be willing to listen to other views, respond in a civil and articulate manner and remember that what we post isn't just read by the person we're responding to. I have continued what felt like pointless debates with people I knew were never going to listen to anything but their own points because I knew other who might have been more willing to to hear were reading too.

We need to remember that even the more innocuous discussion will be read by someone not openly involved in it and use that as an opportunity to teach.







Family friendly and SFW:



It seems that the overwhelming opinion is that we keep these two attributes and I very much agree. I believe that a significant aspect of fighting for our 2A rights is being overlooked or at least under-served and that is training and raising up the next generation of 2A advocates. We know we want to pass along not only our love of the shooting sports and hunting to our kids but also the right to engage in these activities.

This means we need to not only teach them firearms safety, hunting and shooting but the importance of the right to do so and how to hold the line against the loss of the right to keep and bear arms.



I know most of us do so with our family but we need more than that, we need to reach out. I'm really not sure how it would shape up but an idea I've had is to follow the model used in various other aspects of life and develop a '2A advocate' mentoring system. Teach people, young or not, how to engage in both the political and public appearance aspects of working to defend and regain our 2A rights. As I said I'm not sure how it would work but I do know we have a lot of smart and creative people here who can come up with ideas.







Focus on 2A vs. being a social community:



This one is sort of a trick question and many saw through it. We need to do both and I am damn glad to see so many responses adamantly advocating maintaining and even increasing our stance as a civil rights community.

We need to keep and grow our pro 2A position and efforts, it is the reason we exist, but we can't do that without the social community being strong too.



This brings up two responses to things mentioned in this thread.

First is the lack of organized real world meetings among our community. I don't just mean 'Let have a meeting to discuss..' I mean even the basic social 'Hey let's get together and..' type of stuff.

Yes, we're all (mostly) shooters in some form and meeting at the range is always fun but sometimes it's an effort as well. Sometimes it's just about meeting with friends to grab lunch or dinner or to just hang out and have a drink. And to be honest the hang out and have fun kinds of meetings have almost always been more productive than the organized meetings I've been to.

A lot of gun owners think they are 'alone'; either in their hobby, in their belief in and fight for 2A rights or even just in life. It's hard to keep fighting in any arena when you think you're standing alone, knowing not only are there others out there like me but knowing and several of them are just a mile or two away can be huge.

This has the added possibility of offering a fellow Calgunner who is having a hard time people they can talk to before getting any more down.



The idea has been mentioned in this thread of local meet and greets and get togethers, this is an awesome idea in my opinion. We've had a few here in the San Fernando Valley, Palmaris has opened his house to Calgunners a couple of times for what was essentially a backyard BBQ to hang out, eat and even show off some interesting firearms. These were great because we put faces to names and found out there's other interests we share as well.



I think the idea of local Calgunner groups is really interesting, it wouldn't have to be something formal, it could be if people wanted it but that's up to the people in the area. It could be as simple as posting 'BBQ in my backyard this weekend, bring something to throw on the grill and your most obscure firearm!' to a semi-formal monthly get together at a local place to hang out and discuss guns and 2A issues and actions.





These are just a few thoughts on how to move forward from here, since we seem to have chosen a course let me hear what you think.





As far as re-engaging in 2A activism, that's going to need a whole 'nuther post.

I have a few ideas to throw out and it will depend on how much you want to step in to the ring.
We already meet up in Sacramento every month. Sunrise blvd at round table pizza in Rancho Cordova near hw 50. We had a strong 20 turn out but it kinda died down to 2 to 5 of us over the last 2 years. Its posted in the reloading forum.

As for range meet ups, we had some very interesting characters that show up. I stopped going to those unless I know them.

Our booth vendor items are still missing. I wonder if that person returned the hats and tshirts.

Now for the political differences. Not bother me much, but you know they vote for people that want to disarm everyone.

There's no fracture here but people are tired of CA beating us down.

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Old 10-03-2019, 8:59 PM
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I kind of like the rowdiness of OT. I’m around little kids ALL day, everyday. It’s not like I’m trying to hold in a sailor’s amount of profanity, but it is nice that I don’t really have to watch what I say here.

The pictures some of the guys post, while sometimes “risquť” don’t bother me because A) I’ve pretty much seen it all, B) I can always hit the back arrow or not even click on a thread if it sounds too weird, and C) I’ve been known to post a sexy fireman meme or two.

If Emily Post starts getting enforced here, it would mean I’d have to clean up my act, too. I think it’s nice that this site is around where guys can talk as if they were in a garage laughing over a beer. With all the #metoo stuff, guys have to walk on eggshells at work, in public, some even at home.

Society has been especially unkind to those straight White males who so many people love to assume what they’re thinking. People assume they’re racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. How is that fair or kind?

Oh, and side note, the only person to shout at me in ALLCAPS on this site was a woman. Sooo...


Anyway, if I did have any suggestion, it would just be another vote for the idea of making meet-ups more of a thing. I know it’s hard to coordinate a dozen different schedules, but I’ve enjoyed meeting a few calgunners in real life.
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Old 10-03-2019, 9:05 PM
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We already meet up in Sacramento every month. Sunrise blvd at round table pizza in Rancho Cordova near hw 50. We had a strong 20 turn out but it kinda died down to 2 to 5 of us over the last 2 years. Its posted in the reloading forum.

As for range meet ups, we had some very interesting characters that show up. I stopped going to those unless I know them.

Our booth vendor items are still missing. I wonder if that person returned the hats and tshirts.

Now for the political differences. Not bother me much, but you know they vote for people that want to disarm everyone.

There's no fracture here but people are tired of CA beating us down.

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Unfortunately Iím busy that day of the week. Any chance of doing/adding one later in the month on a different weekday?
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Old 10-03-2019, 9:07 PM
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For those of you motivated to meet other Calguns members, I'll once again direct you to the SSZS, where you'll meet hundreds of CG members.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...6#post23471526
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Old 10-03-2019, 9:31 PM
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Unfortunately Iím busy that day of the week. Any chance of doing/adding one later in the month on a different weekday?
not sure, you'll have to ask the group.
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Old 10-03-2019, 9:43 PM
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So, curious here. In your eyes, are we supposed to completely change CGN to be more inclusive to liberal women like you?
Do you want to survive in today's world? If so, then yes, CG should be more inclusive. Of liberal women like me? Well, let's not go overboard, OK?

But @Kestryll asked if CG should change. I posited that CG should change so far as to understand that gun owners include liberal women like me. Do you want to influence my demographic, or do you want to alienate as many "groups" as you can until you stand alone? If the former, well, let's just say that I don't think CG is currently all that friendly a place for ALL California Gun owners...

Kate
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:01 PM
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Do you want to survive in today's world? If so, then yes, CG should be more inclusive. Of liberal women like me? Well, let's not go overboard, OK?



But @Kestryll asked if CG should change. I posited that CG should change so far as to understand that gun owners include liberal women like me. Do you want to influence my demographic, or do you want to alienate as many "groups" as you can until you stand alone? If the former, well, let's just say that I don't think CG is currently all that friendly a place for ALL California Gun owners...



Kate
I think this is a fine place for all gun owners. I've participated here for years, disagreed with folks and never asked anyone to change to suit my feelings. This site has, and will continue to soldier on. I have always found it is important to reach out and get as many anti-gun folks to understand the importance of their Constitutional, God-given, natural rights. This site is as much a lifestyle site as it is a 2nd amendment gathering place. In fact, the lifestyle aspect has kept me around, allowed me to meet hundreds of other members and make lifelong friends here.

Your suggestion in the post above that Calguns won't survive without liberal involvement is unfounded. I'm sure it feels like numbers are on your side because of elections. Time will tell if the conservatives in California, wake up, organize, educate and destroy the socialism that has gripped our state leadership.

I'm not saying you, or any liberal, shouldn't be here. Far from it, in fact. I welcome you here. I'm not sure how accepted your leftist ideas will be received by others, since this site tends to be right-leading and bent towards our freedoms and civil rights. In that regard, you may find it a bit uncomfortable. I am respectfully suggesting that you shouldn't expect this site to change and cater those who, while preaching inclusiveness, vote and organize to limit and destroy our civil rights.
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Old 10-04-2019, 7:35 AM
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I am disappointed in myself for not having read this post until now, And what I have avoided over the years reading and getting agitated by what seem to be just plain agitators replying to just any discussion to (in my opinion) stir up and derail the original posters question or statement, maybe not deliberately or maybe to do so, Not in just political posts but in almost any forum, That is what has kept me from being more involved here in my own state and on Cal Guns where I live.

So from today on I will do more, I have felt the tug from CRAPA emails as of late so time to get off the pot, Guess it would not hurt to much to contribute here either
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Old 10-04-2019, 7:47 AM
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done and did,
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Old 10-04-2019, 8:53 AM
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Do you want to survive in today's world? If so, then yes, CG should be more inclusive. Of liberal women like me? Well, let's not go overboard, OK?

But @Kestryll asked if CG should change. I posited that CG should change so far as to understand that gun owners include liberal women like me. Do you want to influence my demographic, or do you want to alienate as many "groups" as you can until you stand alone? If the former, well, let's just say that I don't think CG is currently all that friendly a place for ALL California Gun owners...

Kate
Dude, thereís already a womenís sub-forum. How much more accommodating can they be? ďThey,Ē meaning the men who run Calguns. (Iím assuming itís mostly men who started and run this site.)

Should the men be barred from OT and confined to a ďmenís sub-forum?Ē Then OT can be ďmy left boob hurtsĒ instead of ďmy left ball hurts.Ē I know thatís not what youíre suggesting, so please donít say Iím putting words in your mouth, Iím just trying to toss out a hypothetical situation to see how changes you suggest could be logistically enforced.

My point is, if calguns changes to be more inclusive, itís going to alienate people who belong the very group who I owe ALL my firearms knowledge to. It doesnít take long to get to know these men, and when you do, you see how big their hearts truly are. My blood family isnít the greatest, so I love having ďadoptedĒ brothers, uncles, and grandpas.

I love you Gaston Glock, love you John Browning, love you Eugene Stoner! Especially you, Mr. Stoner, thank you for designing the perfect gun for a small woman like me!
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Old 10-04-2019, 9:48 AM
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be more inclusive? who is denied in? no one. i think you mean we have to censor our speech to not trigger, annoy, offend the liberals?
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Anyone not voting Brown is putting other things above gun rights.
Whitman + Cooley or Harris = a rash of gun control California has never seen the likes of.
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If you're not voting why are you even opining?
Brown has a track record of not bowing to Dem pressure on guns.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:06 AM
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I don't know if you were actually expecting a response. These seem more like hypothetical questions. But just in case...

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Dude, thereís already a womenís sub-forum. How much more accommodating can they be?
Ouch. So, a shared space with "Women" in the title is all that is needed to be accommodating? Really? I think that "accommodating" would be more like less hostility to those who think differently.


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Should the men be barred from OT and confined to a ďmenís sub-forum?Ē
Iím just trying to toss out a hypothetical situation to see how changes you suggest could be logistically enforced.
No. I was not suggesting that anyone be barred from any forum. My point was that perhaps people who post should think before they post. A possible thought is: When my 17 year old daughter reads this, will I be proud?


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My point is, if calguns changes to be more inclusive, itís going to alienate people who belong the very group who I owe ALL my firearms knowledge to.
No question here, but I categorically disagree with this. And, if it is actually true that all the knowledgeable people are the jerks, AND they will leave if CG tries to be more family friendly, that would sort of support what "The Left" has been saying about gun owners all along. Let us both hope you are incorrect.


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It doesnít take long to get to know these men, and when you do, you see how big their hearts truly are.
I was not making any comment about anyone's heart or internal motivations...

Kate
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:09 AM
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be more inclusive? who is denied in? no one. i think you mean we have to censor our speech to not trigger, annoy, offend the liberals?
Nobody is denied, some people just donít feel welcome so my question is, how do you change that without creating some new rules that exclude certain behavior?
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:31 AM
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I don't know if you were actually expecting a response. These seem more like hypothetical questions. But just in case...



Ouch. So, a shared space with "Women" in the title is all that is needed to be accommodating? Really? I think that "accommodating" would be more like less hostility to those who think differently.




No. I was not suggesting that anyone be barred from any forum. My point was that perhaps people who post should think before they post. A possible thought is: When my 17 year old daughter reads this, will I be proud?




No question here, but I categorically disagree with this. And, if it is actually true that all the knowledgeable people are the jerks, AND they will leave if CG tries to be more family friendly, that would sort of support what "The Left" has been saying about gun owners all along. Let us both hope you are incorrect.



I was not making any comment about anyone's heart or internal motivations...

Kate
Yes, mostly just asking hypothetically how you make this site more family friendly. Assuming the ďguysĒ donít want change their posting habits voluntarily, you would (Kes would) have to impose new rules.

When it comes to guns, itís hard to accommodate people who want to restrict gun rights. So, yeah, anybody who wants to disarm me or restrict what I can buy, I will not be welcoming.

My point is these guys arenít that big of jerks, and even those who are, arenít bad enough to scare me off. For example, I think OCEquestrian is a jerk, but he is right when it comes to the 2A and how all these laws are b.s. Iím going to keep my cat far away from him, but he is right when it comes to my freedom/right to protect myself and my family.

Maybe Iím naive, or just have thick skin, but I think a lot of people (men and women) just get ďsaltyĒ with age. I look at it like a personality quirk, not really as a bad thing. Somebody mentioned Gran Torino. I agree with that. Salty old dude, but would literally die for a noble reason. Those are the exact type of people I like.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:47 AM
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Nobody is denied, some people just donít feel welcome so my question is, how do you change that without creating some new rules that exclude certain behavior?
bp and neil are already out of OT, rules are more strict in the other subs since you have to be on topic. seems only certain people with a very specific background feel unwelcome.
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Anyone not voting Brown is putting other things above gun rights.
Whitman + Cooley or Harris = a rash of gun control California has never seen the likes of.
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If you're not voting why are you even opining?
Brown has a track record of not bowing to Dem pressure on guns.
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  #311  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:51 AM
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When it comes to guns, itís hard to accommodate people who want to restrict gun rights. So, yeah, anybody who wants to disarm me or restrict what I can buy, I will not be welcoming.
One challenge for citizens of a state hostile to 2A rights and privileges is their .gov operatives using this site to collect personal information on members and their .gov power to collate and coordinate actions against individuals in real life. That puts a chill on any open and free discussion of both gun rights and one's personal gun interests. 1984 stuff with a bent on guns. The prog uses such tactics all the time on social media and forums like CG can be considered a subset of social media if a bit more opaque. There's really no way around obvious lurking not to mention NSA collecting packet information. In the future, perhaps present, I see more open discussions bypassing the internet altogether. None of it is on CG I think they do an excellent job. Its more our country and what's going on in it and the humans involved.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:03 AM
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Seems like most of the rants can be boiled down to "Calguns should be more inclusive." (If you have to use the phrase "the Queen's English" three times in one post to make this point, you've blown it)

For those who think Calguns "should be more inclusive," what exactly should Calguns do to accomplish that?
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:19 AM
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I have only been a member here for 1 year but really like what I see going on. It may seem stale to some but I think because over time anything can to a point. I think CG is just about right, open to all and very inclusive already.

Some feel it is too political but trust me if the other party had won the election for president we would be like a tiny boat floating out in the Pacific ocean. This President has given me hope that we will not just survive as a country but maybe we can turn this state around, but after 30 years of only one party rule here, it is all uphill. I wanted to leave but decided I will stay and fight! If any body should be excluded from this forum it should be those that have fled and do not live here anymore!! It's called CALCUNS.NET for a reason.

We just need one strong person to help make California Great Again. That can only be done by someone who can point out the obvious that put Cali into the toilet, time to wake up the voters just like Trump did.
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Old 10-04-2019, 1:00 PM
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What keeps California "great" is the taxes rolling in from Silicon Valley. If that slips and the tide goes out we shall see who's swimming naked in the swamp. You can cover up a lot of issues with cash....
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Old 10-04-2019, 1:04 PM
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bp and neil are already out of OT, rules are more strict in the other subs since you have to be on topic. seems only certain people with a very specific background feel unwelcome.
Exactly, and if the rules got more strict, that would affect me too. I can be a little crude as well.

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Originally Posted by user120312 View Post
One challenge for citizens of a state hostile to 2A rights and privileges is their .gov operatives using this site to collect personal information on members and their .gov power to collate and coordinate actions against individuals in real life. That puts a chill on any open and free discussion of both gun rights and one's personal gun interests. 1984 stuff with a bent on guns. The prog uses such tactics all the time on social media and forums like CG can be considered a subset of social media if a bit more opaque. There's really no way around obvious lurking not to mention NSA collecting packet information. In the future, perhaps present, I see more open discussions bypassing the internet altogether. None of it is on CG I think they do an excellent job. Its more our country and what's going on in it and the humans involved.
Well, I already have 10+ guns registered to me, Iím already on a few lists, Iím sure. So, do you hear that government? I donít like my rights infringed. These laws suck, letís roll em all back.

Anyway, I donít really have any more suggestions. If off topic really is too bad, then perhaps when people join and enter their birthdate, if they are under 18, then off topic should be inaccessible? When my daughter was 4 she already said stuff like, ďtwo guns arenít enough, you need like 100,Ē so who knows what will come out of her mouth when she is 17.
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Old 10-04-2019, 1:08 PM
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Actually, for Christians, it is part of their personal identity; similar to how you choose to portray yourself in your avatar. If you feel this is not the place for personal identity, then you are, perhaps, also guilty of...

<snip for bandwidth>
THANK YOU for a well thought out post that addresses the issues (from your perspective, of course) instead of ad hominum attacks. The idea here (in this thread, at least to my thinking) is a transfer of ideas. Some seem to think they have to "win" regardless of the consequences - and then everybody loses. Hence my comments about "the Queen's English".

My point again, simply is, waving a religious flag, Christian or otherwise has nothing to do with firearms. Again, FOCUS on firearms, firearm rights, etc - ONLY. I'm a Pagan as most have probably figured out by now - and I think I may have slipped up once or twice and referred to "Goddess", but I don't make a point of telling everybody here that they need to worship *my* pantheon, or refer to my religion much of the time, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

Again - Christians talking about their religion does NOT bother me - but it DOES bother some/many. Heck, I even partake of Christian rituals and prayers from time-to-time, much like I do those of Wicca - and I'm not Wiccan either. I'm pretty eclectic that way.

But regardless of all that, to my mind its just a simple matter focusing on "the problem". Religion has nothing to do with firearms or firearm rights. If California gun owners weren't forced into a corner it wouldn't matter so much, but again: You need every man on deck to avert the coming disaster - if it isn't already too late. As I said before, I'm a right leaning Libertarian, which means I don't like either of the major parties - they're BOTH 1/3rd right, and 2/3rds wrong as I see it. There are certain so-called "liberal" talking points that I agree with - mostly to do with the environment - but even there, they've gone WAAAAAAY too far into lunacy. I guess the Liberals think anything that's worth doing is worth over doing and they certainly have with most environmental issues.

But the collective "you" in California NEED the Liberals along with EVERYBODY else to join you in "the battle", and the best way to team up with a diverse crowd is to FOCUS on gun "stuff" only. Bible-speak and far right rhetoric will alienate them - so don't do it, concentrate on the task at hand. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

ETA: The above, of course, goes for Liberals et al as well. They too need to focus on firearms "stuff" and leave the un-related rhetoric at home. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and all that.
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Last edited by Zorba; 10-04-2019 at 1:11 PM.. Reason: Clarification on Liberals.
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Old 10-04-2019, 5:23 PM
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I think I get it now. As bad as it is for Californian gun owners, I can only imagine trying to overcome the prejudices surrounding "Pagan Gun Owners!" Enough to make anyone frazzled, I'm sure.

I think you're confusing Calguns with hypothetical Calguns users--you're preaching to users you disagree with. Calguns is simply providing the forum, or the medium with which to exchange ideas, and as far as I can tell, it's 95%+ focused on firearms and related topics.
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Old 10-04-2019, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kate View Post
Do you want to survive in today's world? If so, then yes, CG should be more inclusive. Of liberal women like me? Well, let's not go overboard, OK?

But @Kestryll asked if CG should change. I posited that CG should change so far as to understand that gun owners include liberal women like me. Do you want to influence my demographic, or do you want to alienate as many "groups" as you can until you stand alone? If the former, well, let's just say that I don't think CG is currently all that friendly a place for ALL California Gun owners...

Kate
If you liberal women keep voting for democratic candidates, there will be no CA gun owners. Can't see the sky with your skirt over your head there missy.
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  #319  
Old 10-04-2019, 5:55 PM
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I was a long time Calgunner. I actually did a transaction with Kestryll. A year ago I fled Cal for tax, cost of living, anti 2A, and expanding socialist government reasons. Cal liberals are expertly executing a civil war on unfortunate residents. Examples are SF classifying NRA a domestic terrorist, recent ammo and gun restrictions, demonizing gun owners and free speech, etc. My fear is Cal is the precursor for the rest of the US. The liberal college indoctrination centers, the ultimate undocumented aliens amnesty citizenship, open boarders, red flag laws, major lending banks discriminating 2A businesses and individuals and migration of liberals from Cal to other states (Texas, Or, Wa, Az, etc) will eventually turn red states blue throughout the US. I fear in 12-16 years all of the US will be left of Cal.

Last edited by LMT4ME; 10-04-2019 at 5:59 PM..
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  #320  
Old 10-04-2019, 7:54 PM
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M.O.G.U.E.R.A. M.O.G.U.E.R.A. is offline
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Originally Posted by HUTCH 7.62 View Post
I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
I left California back in June and now live in Arizona; needless to say, I still am active here since I frequently visit California and might even one day return. I like to stay up to date with all 2A issues in California because every time I return, I return with pistols to go shoot at my old local ranges, and I too was under that strict Californian firearm steel curtain before leaving.

I just became a member of CRPA on Saturday in an effort to be more up to date and support as much as I can. I think people out of state that hate California because of its strict gun laws and liberal laws fail to realize that if California was more 2A friendly, the whole firearm community would benefit from it in that sales would skyrocket due to the huge numbers of firearm supporters we have in the state. Also, in being more 2A friendly, the firearm community from other states would dare venture more to California knowing that the law would not deviate as much as it does currently from their home state.

It is just a shame that this state, once part of the wild wild west and very pro gun, has become a shell of its former self......
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