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  #1  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:05 PM
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Default Where does Calguns go from here?

I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

There's no way to deny or candy coat the fact that we're in a bad place. As gun owners we're a 'safe target' for politicians, our rights are teetering on the edge of non-existence and frankly unless we're talking about social media where everyone's a 'no compromise' activist we're about as silent as a whipped dog who doesn't want to be hit again.

We've had some truly tragic events recently, Gilroy, El Paso and Dayton, and while we as gun owners mourn the senseless loss of life the politicians who see our freedoms as something 'in the way' of their ability to control our lives use these tragedies as stepping stones towards their desire for a disarmed America.

We talk a good game when we have a win, Freedom Week was great and everyone was all ready to go all Gadsden over their new magazines, but what happened a week or two later? The big discussions were over which companies hadn't delivered yet and what we'd been 'lucky enough to score'.

When it comes right down to it maybe 5-8 out of every 100 gun owners is willing to do anything more than send in a membership check and then complain that nothing is being done.

Yes, organizations like CRPA and NRA are fighting hard for us in the courts and despite the super-majority the anti-civil rights Democrats hold in California the CRPA and NRA have full time lobbyists in Sacramento trying to prevent bad bills from becoming bad laws. But the real question becomes is all we can do is let them carry our water and hope they win?

There was a time, actually not that long ago, when members of Calguns were engaged and involved in efforts to fight for our rights. We closed down the capitol switchboards, overloaded their email servers and flooded their offices with letters. We had a voice, we used it and win or lose we never let them forget we were here, watching, voting and fighting.

Things have changed, there's no denying it. The laws we face are worse than ever, many of us are 'represented' by the same Democrat anti-civil rights politicians that propose eliminating our Constitutional rights and it's very reasonable to be doubtful that they will listen to us at all. The question is do we give up and stay silent because they won't listen or do we become louder regardless of whether they listen or not?

I've stated my position numerous times, I'm going to fight until I'm dead and I don't care who listens or doesn't I'm going to yell as loud as I can. While I do think that we hit a point of diminishing returns a while ago in regards to contacting our Legislators I still think it's useful to do so to remind them we haven't gone away or given up if nothing else.

I think the future of our fight is twofold, litigation via orgs like CRPA and NRA especially now that the face of the 9th is being changed by new appointments and by working through the electoral process. Yes, we're outnumbered but there is still a LOT of us here and people are voting less each election which means win or lose our voice can stand out as something to be reckoned with. We're not going to change things quickly or everywhere all at once, we need to try to make changes locally first.


As I said I've stated my thoughts numerous times but my thoughts aren't what count, your thoughts are what I need to hear.

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
I've always tried to focus Calguns as a place where all are welcome and with a goal of working for our 2A rights, I've tried to keep Calguns workplace and family friendly so we could reach the next generation of gun owners and 2A supporters, I've tried to keep Calguns open to all points of view, Republican, Democrat, pro-2A and anti-2A with all having a voice as long as it is a civil voice.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?


We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:12 PM
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Reply being penned ...

Last edited by kmas; 08-19-2019 at 12:31 PM..
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:14 PM
jarhead714 jarhead714 is online now
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I think will be un-American to limit members who do not have a pro second amendment view of things. Not only that, it would be awfully boring.
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:20 PM
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great questions.

i am wrong to suspect open activism is low because in today's digital information age, it is too easy for our enemies to hurt us once we openly identify ourselves?
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:21 PM
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As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we don’t need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:26 PM
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Default Thank you

Oh, Elder of the Calguns Tribe,

Thanks for initiating this.

Here are my answers to your Q's from someone who is:

ex-UK (where all our parties are traditionally left of America's)
ex-active military (teaching now)
Still friendly with liberals and white supremacists (old friends who have developed these views over the years)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
YOUR QUESTIONS:

"Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path? Partially, but ...

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party? NO

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here? NO

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A? NO

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts? NO

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community? NO "

--------------------------------------------------------------------
All we need to do is take to heart your suggestions for more active involvement.

I have been "brainwashing" my hundreds of students - civilian and military - about the joys of gun ownership and shooting.

My children who live on the Eastern side of our great country are often asked : "what?? you're from California and you like guns and go shooting !!?"

About a third of my students have gone to the range (I've taken a few ...) and maybe a third of those end up becoming gun owners, while others still enjoy range time with rented guns.

Of course as you mention, we also need to get involved with our govt. reps.

Last edited by kmas; 08-19-2019 at 12:30 PM..
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:33 PM
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I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:35 PM
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F bombs and insults don't win arguments or impress anyone for that matter.

How do you get the membership more involved? IDK. But I've not seen too many requests for help.

Some smart person can probably compose a list of "to do's".
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  #9  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:36 PM
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I don't post much heck I lurked for about 2 years before even joining but I like this place.

Do I agree with everything posted here ? HECK NO but i've gotten quite a bit of information too. Civil discussion is a norm on ALL message boards as well as society so yeah keep that. If some choose not to follow than yes there should be a cost.

On the political front I think if you focus on only one side you end up with what we have in the world already , a bunch of ignorant fools lol. Heck there are some ignorant fools here , some I like some I wouldn't take a leak on if on fire , if I knew them in person. Not saying there aren't some who may feel the same about me but I can live with that , can they ?

This board sometimes reminds me of the military , you know a bunch of people that don't really know each other but have something in common that brings them together. There is stuff posted here that if I knew the person i'd probably end up buying them a beer OR one of us would be injured lmao. But it doesn't keep me away because I understand differences in opinions doesn't make either party right.

I enjoy firearms and the knowledge this board has given me on things I didn't know about.

We could/should figure out some ways to attend town halls and court dates to show our strength , that may help us ?

Last edited by M60A1Rise; 08-19-2019 at 12:40 PM..
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2019, 12:42 PM
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As it is , it’s mostly people lost in their head and you have to wade through a lot of poop to find useful information. It’s already a forum where people stuck in angry thought patterns jump down anyone’s throat who isn’t a dogmatic gundamentalist. People addicted to outrage are coming to every social media platform and either looking to find something to be angry about or get others angry about. It’s unhealthy.

I got an email from CRPA about a meeting not too far from me. People are much more polite , less angry and constructive in person than on an anonymous forum. Maybe , Regional groups can meet to compare notes on what works and what doesn’t for gun rights.

When we organized our Neighborhood Watch , at first it was on line and people just posted rants , took everything personally , and nothing happened . The people eager to criticize never showed up to do anything. So we changed it. In person meetings only. It was an amazing difference . The *******s and complainers never showed up. We had a core group and we met with other groups and officials and learned what worked and what didn’t . We transformed not just our neighborhood but helped surrounding neighborhoods. We don’t text or email but to post meeting topics and times. Everything is discussed face to face. Old school but the results have been great.

I’m sure more would get done in person and comparing notes with people who have had success with 2A rights than just online . Group consensus is rough, especially with ego’s and those who have lost their resilience to encountering things they don’t like or agree with.
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  #11  
Old 08-19-2019, 1:05 PM
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I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2019, 1:06 PM
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I think we are good as is.. the only thing we need more of is, activism. The problem the pro gun, republican, right wing side, is we all have jobs and families that depend on us. If I could afford it, I’d be marching the steps every day. But the truth is many of us can’t! We work for our food, insurance, cell phones, etc.

Is there some way we can do it? I’m sure! But I not have the answer. I do know that we need more activism though. Even a promotional commercial that could be aired on tv about concealed carry and the good things that guns help with.
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  #13  
Old 08-19-2019, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUTCH 7.62 View Post
I worry we are loosing ground also, but I feel it is more due to members fleeing California and becoming refugees in free states, with that said. How do we get our out of state members more involved, or keep them involved?
I am one of which you speak. CA going down the tubes is an example of what we all can expect and reason to stay involved. For every State that fights back and wins court battles, it only strengthens CA folk's resolve. Many of us that has left the state, still belongs to Calguns as well as other gun forums. Many of us still contribute to the cause in CA as well as our new state and Nationally. I do agree with you, we need to stay involved in CA. Gun laws follow us wherever we go.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:38 PM
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We must capture the minds of the youth.
Maybe some sort of a CalGuns youth drive to gain new shooters?

Even a "Call of Duty" type shoot based on video games for young shooters to teach them about the 2nd amendment and gun safety? Like Appleseed meets Call of Duty?

More youth shooting events for IDPA, USPSA, ATA, etc? Make stages like "Grand Theft Auto" with animated graphics pasted on targets and such?

....someone younger might have better ideas on how to attract the youngsters!
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:42 PM
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It’s a car culture, not a gun culture.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:45 PM
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I definitely don’t think that the family friendly aspect should be changed.

I view this place as the old bar where I hang out with the old and middle aged folks that share most of my values and viewpoints and help me develop my views on things or put in words things that I can’t.

I act up every now and then and get put into my place with no real world repercussions.

I like this bar. Don’t go disco, keep it country.
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Old 08-19-2019, 1:52 PM
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I am very happy to see this post. I have noticed that many prominent people in the "gun community" have started to engage in political discourse, when they had totally avoided it in the past. I think that the prior avoidance was for a several reasons, but mostly due to the social stigma that the Democrats and the media have successfully but illegitimately applied to those on the Right, and also due to the nature of those who lean Right, which is generally going to be someone who respects an individual's autonomy and has a "live and let live" perspective. I am thankful that many now see how the Left's attack on free discussion with the PC culture long-game has really changed things.


Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
This is a very difficult one to answer. Many will reply with no as their answer, but it is impossible to ignore the assault on not only the Second Amendment, but also the general assault on American ideals coming from the Leftist Democrat party. Yes, of course there are many good people who are Democrats, some whom are prominent members here that present ludicrous ideas, but are probably generally good at heart. However, the Democrat party is corrupt and their agenda is antithetical to the idea of liberty. We also cannot ignore the proposed blatant infringements coming from a select few in the Republican party. The important distinction is that the entire Democrat party wants extreme if not outright gun control, and a few in the Republican party want compromise gun control. Overwhelmingly, the party that supports gun rights and freedom is clearly the Republicans. Should we make that known? Absolutely. Anything otherwise is to our detriment. We should also make it known that compromise gun control is not acceptable.


Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No. Standards are a good thing, and there's no reason to join the Left with their degradation of a good and moral society.


Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No. Let's hear all voices, and counter their bad ideas with our good ideas.


Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Many will disagree on the definition of these things, but it's probably a good idea to keep things civil so there is not a bunch of cluttered nonsense that destroys a good debate.


Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
This is a great question, and I'm sure that you know my answer based upon my responses to the previous questions. We absolutely must have a defense to the attack on our way of life. It is undeniable that we are almost ready to die the death of 1000 cuts that have been inflicted by incremental gun control over many, many years. Every major Democrat presidential candidate is now calling for gun confiscation, by force of law. The oft-quoted "All that's necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" statement seems to be quite relevant to our situation. So we either get more involved politically, or we will be railroaded by the political process.
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Old 08-19-2019, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Yes.

Quote:
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No.

Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No.

Quote:
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No.

Quote:
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No.

Quote:
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
No.

Generally speaking, I don’t think CGN should change anything. From how I understand your points, you want the members here to be more engaged in fighting for our rights. I don’t think changing the rules here will motivate more people to fight that fight. I see CGN as a place where we can discuss the issues and try to find solutions. But if you want people to engage their representatives more (even though I think our views fall on deaf ears especially with my state & federal representatives), then I think we need to hold events where we actually get away from our computers, tablets, smartphones, etc. and do something. Like have information tables at local events across the state. Pass out flyers. And maybe focus on NorCal. (I feel that SoCal-gunners are more involved here than us NorCal-gunners.). Maybe what we need is another arm to CGN that is more real-world activist than keyboard activist?
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Old 08-19-2019, 2:36 PM
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CGN ain't broke, don't fix it.

Perhaps require a NRA/CPRA membership in order to join CGN?

Thanks Kes.
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Old 08-19-2019, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we don’t need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.

There are multiple subjects I disagree with you on, but I agree with every word in this comment.
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Old 08-19-2019, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hunterb View Post
We must capture the minds of the youth.
Maybe some sort of a CalGuns youth drive to gain new shooters?

Even a "Call of Duty" type shoot based on video games for young shooters to teach them about the 2nd amendment and gun safety? Like Appleseed meets Call of Duty?

More youth shooting events for IDPA, USPSA, ATA, etc? Make stages like "Grand Theft Auto" with animated graphics pasted on targets and such?

....someone younger might have better ideas on how to attract the youngsters!
I too think it starts with the youth. More education about the history of our country and how firearms have played the crucial role in winning and keeping free men free.

I don't think they are teaching this in schools now, and the younger generation seems to get their gun background from video games and news on school shootings, unless they are being taught by responsible gun owning parents at an early age which seem to be dwindling as time goes on.
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Old 08-19-2019, 3:15 PM
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It seems we cannot keep up with the opposition and the courts can't either. The increasing calls to obliterate our natural rights is unnerving to the extreme.

I'm trying to act local and shape young minds and bringing new people into the fold in a holistic way (natural rights is the emphasis so not just a one trick 2A ponyshow). Until we change how our democracy works it's a simple numbers game so working on the numbers is the way to go for me.

In the meantime the only real hope for significant change are some major clarifications from SCOTUS. Those will be long in coming and meagerly incremental.
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Old 08-19-2019, 3:51 PM
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I think calguns has been great in it's moderation of the forum itself and should maintain it's current policy. However you are very right on the need for more activism, maybe outreach too? Idk maybe we can have regional meetings? Online only? To decide a gameplan?
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Old 08-19-2019, 4:06 PM
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Continue as is.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No. We have a democrat majority in this state. Without them on board we will get nothing except through the courts.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No. This site is the "face" of California gun owners. We need a good image.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Soap Box:
The MSM won't let that happen anymore.

Ballot Box:
The left is in control and they don't care about us to put it politely.
My Reps are Boxer, Feinstein, Shiff, Friedman and Portantino.
I have no representation in government at this time.

Jury Box:
We wait on the courts.
Not much else to do.
Ultimately we will prevail.

Otherwise, it's on to the next box and nobody wants that.

I wish I had more to offer, but for now we wait on the courts.
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Old 08-19-2019, 4:35 PM
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NSFW & Porn/Pork/Bacon; hell yeah! LL has gone to **** CG needs to adapt to more like 4 chan
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Old 08-19-2019, 5:35 PM
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Keep it as it is. You are doing the best you can while staying within the law in a state that is / has been reclaimed by Mexico.

Maybe when they come for your guns wholesale, people will get more charged up. Reps generally are not big on protest or demonstrations. That is the purview of the filthy dems.

CA is the model for the entire country. Moonbeam Brown (remember him) said so himself.

When I was a kid CA had the biggest gun dealer in the country right in Pasadena...Golden State Arms Corp.
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Old 08-19-2019, 6:09 PM
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I pretty much agree with all that has been said here.

Perhaps we can have a "Talking Points" forum where we learn how to talk to people who are afraid of guns, who are anti-2A, etc..

Also, "Template" forum for letter writing. Some folks have the writer's gift and can share their eloquence.

It seems that those who make the effort to talk to others have made positive progress through contact and communication one person at a time. It feels like a grassroots effort with some patience might work.
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Old 08-19-2019, 6:22 PM
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Alright, since you asked, I'll stick my neck out this ONCE, then leave it be. I'm only saying this because I've felt this way for years, and again, you asked! Probably entirely too wordy for my own good, but here goes:

I have left California as of 2-1/2 years ago, with all that that entails, including watching the California lunacy spread like the disease it is. Blah, blah, blah - which has little to do with the questions asked.

HOWEVER, I feel that this is going to generate some eye rolls, and that's part of the problem AS I SEE IT.

When I *was* a California resident, I thought "Cal Guns" was divisive, contentious, non-inclusive, and completely ineffectual. You need to have EVERY SINGLE CALIFORNIA GUN OWNING RESIDENT ON YOUR SIDE. This forum is full of right wing rhetoric, which is, to me and many others, JUST AS BAD AS THE LEFT. The ONLY thing the GOP has going for it is that it isn't the Democrats. Both of the major parties are parties of slavery, they both want to control the populace and suppress those they don't like. The only difference is the what and the who of it.

Focus on Gun Rights and Gun Rights ONLY. Do not promote the GOP - which admittedly has a vastly better record on this matter, but far from perfect - as being "The party of Freedom" as they are NOT any more than the Democrats are. Only a fool believes any politician.

Reach out to those who are not right wing Christians, and for Goddess' sake, stop thumping the Bible! Stop the "Bible-speak", and using outdated words like "mock" that should have been left in the 19th century. This is, or should be, Cal GUNS, not Cal BIBLE, regardless of what anyone's individual religion may or may not be.

I'm not saying this is "offensive" - it takes a lot more than that to "offend" me - I'm saying its divisive and non-inclusive and is DRIVING AWAY POTENTIAL ALLIES. The NRA is starting to have this exact same issue, with the same results - their internal problems not withstanding. If people don't feel welcome, they certainly won't ally with you.

I go to a shooting event every year in the deep south, and there are NONE of these issues there. The result: 3 Pagans, 2 Liberals, and at least 1 atheist join all the Christians every year and we all have a grand old time - because everybody goes out of their way to keep it focused on guns, shooting, food, and camaraderie and leave both the politics and their religion at home where it belongs. We all agree on gun rights, and that's all we need to agree on. Frankly, that isn't the atmosphere here, and I'd guess, not so much at California shooting events either; although I'll give the latter the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't involved when I was a Californian.

Now if this is "mocking" something or someone, well one last time, you asked. I have spoken, and will speak no more.
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  #29  
Old 08-19-2019, 6:58 PM
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I'm pretty sure you already knew the answers before you posted the questions. Having said that, opening up Pandora's box and turning this site into the wild west will accomplish nothing. Other forms have a pretty much "anything goes" sub-forum, maybe locking that forum out to over-18 or parent permission required to log in might be an option (not sure if that is supported by the software).
As far as the vision, THIS is where I come when I need to know what is going on in this state and what I can do about it. John Lovell made a good point about "political activists" and "social activists". We need both, I think we have both here. Of course, we also have the whiners, naysayers, pessimists, and (seemingly) antis here as well, but any society has that. If we can't deal with that section of society on this forum, how are we going to do so in the real world when we can't hide behind the anonymity of a keyboard and monitor?
I don't post much because I'd rather shut up and learn,but I do direct people to this forum and I do share what I learn. I'm not sure how much that means (if anything), but it's what I am able to contribute. I am NOT a political activist, but I contribute where I can and when I can, this forum makes that possible. That's just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-19-2019, 7:31 PM
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Calguns has had its better days, but has slipped due to its participants and not its leadership. Too many keyboard warriors.

IMHO, Calguns could be restored through the following credentialing:

1. Require NRA Membership
2. Require CRPA Membership
3. Prohibit members that are affiliated with Unions or Employee Associations...these folks cowardly support organizations that are aggressively anti 2A because of their chasing a few pennies for their members.
4. Require a membership fee or $25 per year to cover the checking of credentials.

Sure, Calguns will lose some participant keyboard warriors that just want to post deals for Gummybears on Amazon from their mother's basement, but what is lost in numbers will be made up in quality of the organization.

Thanks to the Calguns leadership for taking things this far and for having the wisdom to ask what users are thinking in looking to the future.
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Last edited by Jeepergeo; 08-19-2019 at 7:34 PM..
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  #31  
Old 08-19-2019, 7:36 PM
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So here's where fall on it. I joined in 2012, and calguns was instrumental in educating me on the scope of my 2A rights, and also the pressure it was under even then. It was where I stumbled across a post about ARs and realized "holy crap, I can own one of those here? I'm buying one!"

Opening up the language or NSFW images isn't going to change anything for the better. I've gotten a temp ban or two myself for comments I made that were unintentionally attacking people with strongly held religious beliefs. It certainly made me pause and consider the content of what I was putting out here and who was on the other end of the screen- my brothers & sisters in arms.

As for the state of CG, I don't think that this is something Kestryll can take the blame for. Honestly, it's damned hard to be an active, involved, and positive 2A supporter in California, especially in the liberal strongholds where most of the people reside. I've run the Burbank meet & shoot for nearly 3 years now and I'm EXHAUSTED. Not from the meets, but from talking to other gun owners and seeing how demoralized and beaten down we are.

Every new proposed law puts the screws to us. "Oh that legally owned thing you have, pay us yet another fee to keep it, and we'll tack on another one in a year or so." It's frustrating and hard not to feel like a kicked puppy. Prior to the most recent changes to the AW laws and added features to the ban, I just gave up. Rather than register I just said "screw it" and took apart everything I didn't feel like spending hundreds of dollars PER GUN to bring into compliance with laws that are wholly unconstitutional, and completely ineffective at their stated goal while fully effective at the hidden one- disarming the populace.

People asked what I was going to do. Which compliance device was I buying. I quit telling people to research it and pick one and just said "eff the state government, I'm done tossing my wallet across constantly moving goal lines." I've done as much compliance as I care to.

I got involved in gun and 3d printing subs on reddit before they were banned, information put out there by the guys that designed the liberator and the first 3d printed AR lowers. I can fire off Glock pistol frames all day long for under $2 apiece and the state can kiss my man-sized butt.

theLBC has a great point that anything on social media can immediately make you a target for hostile intentions and attacks on your internet presence. It's something I consider, working in a very liberal university where my opinions are definitely in the minority. But it's important to know, especially as things seem really dark right now, that PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP.

I'm active on nextdoor (basically Facebook for local neighborhoods, you have to be vetted as a resident to be added to your group) and let me tell you, people are sick to death of the condition of this state and especially the city. The homeless are screaming, crapping, trash-hoarding zombies that are seemingly immune from arrest or police action unless it's something pretty serious. I've seen quite a lot of people voice on there that the police can't help because their hands are tied, and you need to be armed and protect you and yours.

The democratic socialist elites that have been systematically destroying the state got what they wanted, but the effect on the population isn't entirely in line with their intentions. They thought they'd disarm us all and turn this state into a socialist blueprint for the country; instead, people are shaking off the blinders of their leftist echo chambers and actually seeing what's happening around them. You can virtue signal all you want about being fine with illegals streaming into the city, but when they shoot YOUR wife, or the homeless you're so compassionate about park their meth-lair RV on your street, it's a different story.

Take heart guys, we're still in the fight. This past year we've had a lot more people show up at the Burbank shoot than the previous two years. Most of those are tag-alongs that people are bringing. Coworkers, friends, spouses, that finally asked "hey you know how you're always offering to take me shooting, I think I'd like to try it." Across the board they leave happy, better informed, and a little more likely to challenge someone that's towing the democratic party line.

Think about it this way. Your leftie coworker that finally came shooting with you isn't necessarily going to run out and buy their first pistol. But the next time they're in a group and gun control comes up, they might not vehemently defend the 2A but they can chime in and say "hold on now, I went shooting and every one of the people there was friendly, welcoming, and super helpful and ready to teach me how to get better." They might not scream for the repeal of the NFA, but when their cohorts start talking about guns being magic one-touch death machines, they can shut that down and say "that's BS, shooting a gun is WAY harder than that and it's something that takes discipline and practice to be good at."

I've definitely felt pretty hopeless at times, but to be honest with you, things have changed a lot since Trump took office. It was a huge monkey-wrench in the plans of the Power That Be since everyone was ramming HRC into position like she was an inevitability. We're not finished here by a long shot, and things are sliding our way slowly, yes, but it's happening. Provided the Democrats continue putting their identity politics idiot puppets up for candidacy, 2020 is a slam dunk for Trump and that will further stack the odds in our favor both in the Supreme Court and the 9th circuit.

WE'RE NOT DONE YET BY A LONG SHOT.

Last edited by billofrights; 08-19-2019 at 7:41 PM..
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  #32  
Old 08-19-2019, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
3. Prohibit members that are affiliated with Unions or Employee Associations...these folks cowardly support organizations that are aggressively anti 2A because of their chasing a few pennies for their members.
My late father was a lifetime union member, and a firearms owner. This kind of comment is "exhibit A" of EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
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Old 08-19-2019, 7:54 PM
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The information garnered from CGN and its various sub forums has a pretty significant reach that many may lose sight of. There are the silent lurkers that are the vast majority of the folks using this site. Right now there are about 2300 active site users of which there are about 1025 members and 1275 visitors of which maybe 20-30 are activily posting. They are some of the core, active posters that keep the forum alive and give it direction for the most part.

The impact and influence on the lurkers can't be measured or known but rest assured this forum is doing a great service. As one of those mostly lurkers, I know it's moved my opinions and views both politically and on firearm rights. So there's that....

I like the idea of a "Template" and "Talking Points" forums. But for the most part keep it as it is.
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Old 08-19-2019, 8:14 PM
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My late father was a lifetime union member, and a firearms owner. This kind of comment is "exhibit A" of EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
100% Agree.. all I could think when reading that post was, “Okay Mr. Holier than thou!”
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Old 08-19-2019, 8:21 PM
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I’m not super active on these forums, but as someone whose political and 2a interpretations differ from the norm on this forum, i’ve always adopted the policy of “when in Rome, don’t talk down fans of Italian food.”

I do own a number of firearms, not huge, and mostly lurk on the for sale portions of the forums. Embracing a more unilateral approach will certainly impact my potential greater involvement here. Winning people like me over is a chance for you to create greater support for your cause, and at the least keeping me around makes it more likely for me to be more agreeable to your views.

It’s your playground, i’m definitely an outsider here, and will of course abide by whatever decisions the forum leadership makes. Just my 2c from a slightly nearer position across the divide.
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Old 08-19-2019, 9:22 PM
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Tagged for further reading


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Old 08-19-2019, 9:43 PM
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In the few months I've been a member of this forum I've learned a lot and became more conscious on several gun related topics. Whatever changes around here, I will adhere to those changes.
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Old 08-19-2019, 9:49 PM
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Pen for though. This will be a good thread.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:47 PM
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What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
I want the State to stop using guns as a scapegoat for the varied ills of humanity. Mental health, bullying, emotional trauma, disenfranchisement, and lack of support and lack of direction are not the fault of gun owners, and guns shouldnt be punished for it. I want the community to use our knowledge, if we have it, to engage in meaningful discussion to help move more people to our side. Name calling and patronizing language does nothing to help our cause--it is simply ego candy.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No, any party can go pathological, we should be 2nd Amendment--and reality-- focused, not party focused.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
I like that requirement. I can go to 4chan if i want to see all that. This website lacks anonymity, and I prefer that here.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No, if someone has an anti 2A view, let them voice it, so that we can address their concerns. Censorship only breeds resentment and martyrdom.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No, again, I can go to 4chan for that. This site isnt anonymous, and I dont think it should move towards that.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
I dont think separating those two issues is wise, nor possible. Guns and politics are woven together, just as the 2A creators knew. Until the 2A stops getting eroded, and we get back to "shall not be infringed," gun owners should be speaking out and convincing people to join our side as best we can. Not everyone is the best at persuasion, but everyone can do their part in their friend groups and communities. Speak the truth, say it gently when needed, and strongly when needed; the truth by itself may not convince people--persuade them.

As far as organized events? That I do not know what would be done. There's a program in my area called GALS (guns and ladies) that does a great job helping women get into the activity. I think that it is activities like that, and the leading by example, and helping new shooters, that gets people on our side.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Yes! No new path needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No. In fact we should have open arms and ask for solutions from our opponents. However we should always be prepared to provide our own solutions which may or may not be in line with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No. Principles are important. Without them, you will lose your core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
If you are suggesting that OT should be gone, that's your decision, however there are quite a few threads that appear to be worthy from time to time even though there is a lot of garbage. IMO the solution is to get rid of the users who consistently create threads and post replies that are designed to bait/troll. IMO they are easy to identify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
Hard to answer as some will insult to make a point. I am one of them. Foul language has no place here, but calling out idiots/people whose values are clearly against what this website is about has merit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
No. Allow both!
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