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  #1  
Old 08-05-2019, 1:43 PM
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Default loose bullet after dropping it on the floor

hello everyone I was reloading 338 lapua with some hornady 250gr bullets and after reloading my last round I dropped one on the floor and I noticed I was able to spin the bullet a little like a 22lr don't know of its safe to shoot or just pull it and start all over my dies are set up for a small crimp on it

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Old 08-05-2019, 3:28 PM
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forget about the crimp. You are not getting any/enough neck tension to start with. Better check the expanding button on your dies as it may be oversized and the die may not be sizing down the neck to start with.
Dumb question ---are you sure you loaded 338cal bullets?
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Old 08-05-2019, 4:38 PM
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yes here is a picture of the box of bullets

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Old 08-05-2019, 9:01 PM
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You should not be able to turn the bullet around or push it into the case with moderate force, better re-examine what you are doing.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:23 PM
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It was only the bullet that I dropped that has the issue the rest are fine buy the looks of the tip it landed right on the tip

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Old 08-05-2019, 11:59 PM
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pull it

like stated above

double check everything
- neck OD, ID, concentricity
- bullet OD and concentricity
- sizing die

if you dont have at least 0.002" of neck tension, one of the above is out of spec
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Old 08-06-2019, 2:19 AM
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I don’t currently reload, but based on you stating that the only one with the issue is the one you dropped, I say pull it, toss the pill and put the case back in rotation (provided it wasn’t damaged).

Good luck.
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Old 08-06-2019, 7:18 AM
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If you can spin the bullet by hand, but can't on the others, the neck has loosened up. Shouldn't have happened, but I've seen stranger stuff.

Pull the bullet. If you want to be lazy, reserve the powder charge, otherwise, throw a new charge for use later. Remove the decapping pin from your sizing die (assuming you are decapping and sizing in a single step), and resize the case. Check that the pneumatic pressure didn't unseat the primer (unlikely, but possible.) Charge the case with the powder from above, and see if you can hand-seat the bullet. If you can, your sizing die is not getting the neck small enough. If you can't, the impact of the bullet on the floor tweaked the neck and loosened it up (That's not definitive, but it's a decent guess.) Reseat the bullet, and go shoot. Since there's a possibility something is screwy with that round, use it as a sighter or fouler if your ammo is for some kind of critical accuracy use.

One other thing: The sized neck diameter should give you a decent amount of hold on the bullet, prior to crimping. I'd recheck that first, as it sounds like your neck diameter is marginal (again, a guess.)
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Old 08-06-2019, 9:56 AM
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divingin---WRONG. Just move the decap stem up so it does not punch out the primer. Then the expander will do what it needs to do when it passes thru the neck. Some stems have a straight pin and are slotted so the expander nut puts pressure on the pin to hold it in place like a collet bullet puller. If you remove the pin and tighten the nut it will collapse the stem and you will not be able to re-install the pin. Just move the whole stem up a bit and when you are done move it back down.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
You should not be able to turn the bullet around or push it into the case with moderate force, better re-examine what you are doing.
correcto mundo should be able to push bullet against ebench with no movement before any crimp is applied
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyline View Post
It was only the bullet that I dropped that has the issue the rest are fine
If dropping it caused it to loosen, you likely have a neck tension problem with ALL of your rounds loaded with the same brass/dies.
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Old 08-06-2019, 3:10 PM
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338 has enough recoil to change seating depth on loose necks. You should pull them all and start over. Primers are cheap.
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Old 08-06-2019, 3:12 PM
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Also crimping is not a replacement for proper neck tension.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
divingin---WRONG. Just move the decap stem up so it does not punch out the primer. Then the expander will do what it needs to do when it passes thru the neck. Some stems have a straight pin and are slotted so the expander nut puts pressure on the pin to hold it in place like a collet bullet puller. If you remove the pin and tighten the nut it will collapse the stem and you will not be able to re-install the pin. Just move the whole stem up a bit and when you are done move it back down.
Fair enough. None of mine are like that (that I'm aware of, anyway.) Make sure, however, that you don't have the neck in the sizing portion of the die while it's occupied by the expander.
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Old 08-07-2019, 2:33 PM
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So I pulled all bullets to be on the safe side and now I am going to inspect dies

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Old 08-07-2019, 6:21 PM
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Dies are likely fine. Id double check how they are setup.
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Old 08-07-2019, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If dropping it caused it to loosen, you likely have a neck tension problem with ALL of your rounds loaded with the same brass/dies.
This 100% dropping a round should not loosen the bullet up. You have bigger problems. I'd be worried about bullet setback if you chamber a round forcefully..
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Old 08-13-2019, 7:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If dropping it caused it to loosen, you likely have a neck tension problem with ALL of your rounds loaded with the same brass/dies.
Reloaders have become tensioners, they are infatuated with neck tension; problem, they have no way to measure tension in pounds etc. etc., I am beginning to believe they use the word tension to impress others.

I use bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get. I measure bullet hold in pounds. I have tension gages, problem, my tension gages do not measure in tensions they measure in pounds.

Many years ago Lyman claimed crimping the neck of bottle neck cases could be a bad habit. They claimed crimping could reduce bullet hold; remember, that was before the invention of the Internet and all reloaders becoming experts.

So? When you started you were using tension to hold your bullet, you did not know how much tension because there is no gage made to measure tension. That leaves a little, just right? or too much

Lyman claimed crimping bottle neck cases could be a bad habit; I have said it is impossible to move the shoulder back when sizing. Reloaders insist they can move the shoulder back and they also claim they can bump it back by pumping. I have insisted I can not bump the shoulder of a case back with a die that has full case body support. I understand there are many reloaders that do not have a clue; the seating die does not have any case body support, that includes no support for the shoulder and or neck, meaning when over crimping the neck is shoved down. When the neck is shoved down there is no place for the shoulder and case body to go but out and that is the reason crimping could be a bad habit.

Spinning bullets in the neck can be caused by crimping, I can not pull bullets without effort, I have placed crimps on bottle neck cases that exceeded the ability of Hornady's collet bullet pullers to pull.

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Old 08-13-2019, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
Reloaders have become tensioners, they are infatuated with neck tension; problem, they have no way to measure tension in pounds etc. etc

I use bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get.
How do you get any bullet hold without tension?
If the case neck is so large that the bullet has no hold, the bullet will slide freely.
Therefore, you need tension to create hold.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:41 AM
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Also bumping a case shoulder is possible and measurable. Your post is kinda nonsensical.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:03 AM
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tomaaaato or tomahhhhto same thing
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:48 AM
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More like tomato, Volkswagen.
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Old 08-13-2019, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Also bumping a case shoulder is possible and measurable. Your post is kind of nonsensical.
The assumption? Reloaders believe they are moving the shoulder back. Reloaders do not understand it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support. If it was possible to move the shoulder back the case would look like an accordion or a Volkswagen thermostat.

Bumpers and 'tensionears'; I measure bullet hold in pounds, most reloaders talk about tensions with no way to measure tensions.

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Old 08-13-2019, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
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Also bumping a case shoulder is possible and measurable. Your post is kinda nonsensical.
He thinks that people don't understand that the brass FLOWS while being sized.
He seems to believe that people think they are moving the SAME shoulder back on the case and not creating a NEW shoulder with the sizing die.

Anyone who knows much about reloading understands that the brass is flowing in the die and that the material in the shoulder after sizing is not the exact same material that was in the shoulder before sizing.

He ignores the obvious thing which is that this is all semantics and it does not matter that the new shoulder is formed from some of the case body and the new case neck is formed from some of the old shoulder after sizing.
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Old 08-14-2019, 7:44 AM
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Same as the tension statement. Bullet hold is due to the tension placed on the bullet by the neck of the case. Tension is measured in pounds (or ounces, or kilograms; whatever unit you care to measure.) He just throws the term out there because it makes others sound stupid. I've never heard of anyone trying to measure "x number of tensions", yet there it is. Every. Damn. Time.
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Old 08-14-2019, 8:12 AM
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I set my brass to 17 tensions for best accuracy.
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Old 08-14-2019, 8:31 AM
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I set my brass to 17 tensions for best accuracy.
I had better luck at 3.152 tensions.
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Old 08-14-2019, 9:42 AM
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I had better luck at 3.152 tensions.
Metric or SAE tensions? Finnish (Lapua) brass and USA (Hornady) bullets. Hmmmm. I think I'm onto the problem.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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Metric or SAE tensions? Finnish (Lapua) brass and USA (Hornady) bullets. Hmmmm. I think I'm onto the problem.
I only use martian tensions.
I keep my reloading bench at 1 mTorr.
It also helps eliminate rust and as a side effect there is no breeze to effect my powder scale.
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Old 08-14-2019, 3:17 PM
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I only use martian tensions.
I keep my reloading bench at 1 mTorr.
It also helps eliminate rust and as a side effect there is no breeze to effect my powder scale.
Can make breathing difficult though.
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Old 08-14-2019, 4:03 PM
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Can make breathing difficult though.
Spacesuit.
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Old 08-14-2019, 6:42 PM
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Lol
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Old 08-14-2019, 7:37 PM
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I've never heard of anyone trying to measure "x number of tensions", yet there it is. Every. Damn. Time.
One more time, I use bullet hold, I measure bullet hold in pounds; reloaders are conditioned to use the term neck tension. There is not one reloader that can measure bullet hold in tensions, they can not convert bullet hold to tensions. Reloaders do not have a scale for tensions.

the first tension gage I worked with measured in thousands of pounds, we had one attached to one cable of 16; that was the first tension gage that skipped measuring tension and went straight to pounds, I also have strain gages, it does not seem fair to reloaders, my strain gage does not measure in strains, it measures in hundreds of pounds.

I have a deflection gage, it does not measure in deflections, it measure in thousandths, with a tension gage the deflection gage can converted to pounds.

reloaders are infatuated with neck tension, reloaders can not measure neck tension, reloader can not convert tension to pounds, some reloaders believe they understand interference fit/crush fit and when asked how many tensions they use they start the tacky talk.

I have a tension gage, it does not measure tensions, it measures in pounds, I use bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get. But there has to be a limit, I believe 45 pounds is a good number.

And then? There is always another tool. I can create enough bullet hold to exceed the ability of the Hornady collet bullet puller to pull bullets. I know, there are reloaders that get all giggly about the Hornady pullet puller. And then there are a few reoladers like me that believe it does not take much bullet hold to exceed the ability of the Hornady collet bullet to pull bullets.

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Old 08-14-2019, 10:35 PM
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Spacesuit.
The right stuff.....sweet.
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Old 08-15-2019, 5:03 PM
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If this thread has taught us anything, it's that we shouldn't smoke crack.
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Old 08-16-2019, 7:38 AM
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So I cant measure pressure in pressures? Only PSI's?

You can and do measure tension which is reflected in a unit of measurement. Nobody likes a semantics nazi.
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Old 08-17-2019, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
You can and do measure tension which is reflected in a unit of measurement. Nobody likes a semantics nazi.
You can? No, I can't, I am the only reloaders on this forum that has a tension gage' my tension gage measures in pounds. Because of the infatuation reloaders have with neck tension I have to believe you have someway of measuring neck tension.

No one here has a conversion for tensions to pounds; again, a manufacturer designed a bullet seating press, the press measures in pounds on a hydraulic gage. If there was something called tensions and could be measured I am sure the gage manufacturer would have designed the gage with two scales.

I have A/C gages, some go back 60 tears, all of my A/C gages measure in pounds with one scale and as many as 5 scales for temperature conversions.

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Old 08-17-2019, 10:38 AM
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Of course you can. Everything is measurable. And its not incorrect to describe brass as having "little tension" or "a lot of tension". In the same way I can describe something as having " little pressure" or "a lot of pressure.

Claiming its not possible to measure the tension of anything is silly.
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Old 08-19-2019, 7:16 AM
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Quote:
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No one here has a conversion for tensions to pounds;
Can you measure weight in weights? Can you measure temperature in temperatures?
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Claiming its not possible to measure the tension of anything is silly.
I am the only fan of bullet hold, I can measure bullet hold in pounds, I can not measure bullet hold in tensions.

One more time: I have tension gages; none of my tension gages measure in tensions; it is simple enough, my tension gages are marked off in pounds. The part that just locks the reloader up is the fact there is no conversion for tensions to pounds.

One more time; there is a hydraulic bullet seating press with a gage. the gage is marked off in pounds. If there was such a thing as seating bullets and measuring in tensions the gage would be marked off in tensions. If there was such a thing as a conversion chart for tensions to pounds at least one reloader out of all the Internet reloaders on the Internet could come up with a conversion and or gage that measures tensions.

At 14 I started working in the oil field, my first job was working the inside tongs. Above my head was a gage that was called a tension gage, The tension gage was marked off in pounds, thousands of pounds. If we wanted to know how much pipe/weight we had in the hole we multiplied the reading on the gage X the number of cables.

Again, I want all the bullet hold I can get, For me a good number for bottle neck cases is 45 pounds, I have exceeded that to the point the Hodgdon collet bullet puller was not able to pull the bullets.

Please do not take this an endorsement of the Hodgdon collet cam operated bullet puller, to me the Hodgdon Bullet puller is down next to not having a bullet puller at all.

F. Guffey
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