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  #1  
Old 07-08-2019, 7:04 PM
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Default Friends Arguing 45 vs 40 vs 9mm; Revolver vs Auto.

A recent police shooting in police footage sparked a friendly heated debate amongst friends. Here’s the YT link to the video. Be advised although it’s censored as it was aired in the news, it still shows blood and the moments shots were fired. Don’t watch it if you’re squeamish or could possibly trigger PTSD. https://youtu.be/Uy5E_cmeVVE

I’m one of the 45 fans, but willing to compromise with the 40 S&W. The youngest stuck with arguing current modern 9mm loads with high cap mags is the answer. An old timer held his ground with the nothing less than a 45 mentality. Everyone agreed a 5 shot revolver in 38 is not ideal.
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:24 PM
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The bigger the better, the more the better, but must meet shot placement requirement.
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:25 PM
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I wouldn’t trust a 38 special or a 9mm.

I go 40 SnW for myself because of cost and reloading cost.

If I can load more, then I can practice more. If I can practice more, then I get shot placement and reaction automaticity. Practice makes perfect.
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:27 PM
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The biggest caliber that you can manage to shoot with accuracy and speed.

If that be a 9mm - then so be it... If one wants to shoot a 45ACP - then one has to train for it...


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Old 07-08-2019, 7:38 PM
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I love .45, but have a variety of Glocks and others in various calibers.

Handguns from HD perspective, I like my G21 (non sf), now thanks to Judge Benitez, running a normal mag 13 + 1.

From CCW perspective, in the process of changing out the 4 allowed, and I tend to adjust based upon season, clothing, need for deep concealed, etc. 22mag, .380, 9m, and .40 cal. will be the likely mix, but may swap one for a 45.

If I was forced to carry just one, based on a balance of concealability, power and capacity, would likely go with G27 with 13 + 1. ....but would still miss my G30 with 13+1
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:48 PM
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I’m of mixed feelings in this. I am a huge supporter of by all means carry a .44 or.45 or whatever you can and want to carry. On the flip side, I’ve carried a 642 5 shot .38 with a 1.8” barrel and a boot grip for years.

Where it stands out is I’ve carried that gun with me everywhere in my pocket for many years. Even when I carry another larger gun that .38 is still in my pocket. I guess the bottom line is I’ve known a lot of dudes who’ve lectured me about what is an appropriate carry gun but don’t carry a gun 90% of the time because it’s inconvenient to carry their favored handgun.
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:55 PM
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A lot of hunters know the value of the 10mm for dangerous game backup gun. My understanding is 9mm, 40 and 45 all penetrate about 18”” into gel. The 10mm penetrates about 24” and is more powerful then a 357 mag.

The 10mm is made to stop 250 lb charging dangerous problems.
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:56 PM
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Forgot to mention, love my 340PD J frame, easy to carry, been on my permit, but 5 of .38+p (or .357 if you can take the beating) is why I'm switching it out for an autoloader on ccw.
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Old 07-08-2019, 7:58 PM
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Carry the biggest gun you can shoot well.
The argument is really misguided if based solely on the hole in the end of the barrel. Far more goes into the equation; of course if I need to put a round into another human to make them stop what they are doing, I want them to stop with a single application and immediately.
Given the choice I’d prefer 00 buckshot, but society has disallowed me from toting a coach gun everywhere. I know for a fact that I can carry my .38 snub even when I’m in flip-flops and it’s 115 degrees outside. Everything else in between is about compromising.

Personally I feel most civilians would be served well using a subcompact 9mm (Shield, G43, G26 etc).
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2019, 8:00 PM
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I'm good for 9mm in semi auto .

Great video which opens the door for allot of educational discussion. FWIW, for most LEOs their department decides which make/model/caliber gets carried. But there are some exceptions.

And watch the suspect. It's a reality check for all of us who shoot standing at a bench at stationary targets at fixed distances.
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2019, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
I'm good for 9mm in semi auto .

Great video which opens the door for allot of educational discussion. FWIW, for most LEOs their department decides which make/model/caliber gets carried. But there are some exceptions.

And watch the suspect. It's a reality check for all of us who shoot standing at a bench at stationary targets at fixed distances.
Yeah, I was amazed at how far the cops quick walked backwards. Knife guy certainly wanted suicide by cop, and one of the cops almost lost his life in the process.
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Old 07-08-2019, 8:10 PM
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I vote for a 22 caliber pistol...





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  #13  
Old 07-08-2019, 8:16 PM
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What a new and refreshing debate
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2019, 8:25 PM
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I’m in the boat with use what you can shoot well. I also believe shot placement counts a lot, if I was in the situation those cops were in and the guy was getting that close after taking a few rounds I’d be aiming a bit higher to make sure the threat was stoped.
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2019, 8:29 PM
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Default ><

Pick up any handgun magazine since 1965, any month, and its the same story with a few different words
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2019, 9:02 PM
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Oh thank god somebody finally brought up the issue of handgun calibers to debate! I can't believe that's NEVER been discussed on any gun forum and I'm certain we will come up with a positive and mutually agreed resolution to this VERY pressing question.



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  #17  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:06 PM
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I counted 13 shots fired by the officer. Not sure how many connected. If he had a 45 acp, he would've ran out of bullets before having to reload. With a 9mm standard capacity, he still has bullets left. I would go with 9mm.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:09 PM
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Call bs. Tell 40 guy to stand ten paces from 45 guy. Turn and draw. First one to die, loses.
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  #19  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:16 PM
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I think Manny Mansfield sums it up nicely.

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  #20  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:46 PM
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Great shot placement by the 2nd officer.
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  #21  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:49 PM
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From the video what I can take from it is whatever you can aim with the best, you should use. When the knife guy got the other cop and his partner had to take shots, that is pretty stress inducing. I'm impressed he didn't hit his partner.

Personally I go with bigger the bullet the better. but that's just me.
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:02 PM
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I've had the same SW1911 as my night stand gun for years. Cocked and locked with Speer Gold Dot .45's. And a Mossberg 5900A1 very close by.

Now someday if 3 masked guys came knocking, or rather blasting through my sliding glass door, maybe I would have wished I had put some of those 20rd MecGar freedom mags I bought for my Sig P226 9mm to use. And replaced my Mossberg 12 gauge with a AK47 and 30 rd mag.

But I haven't made the change yet.
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:36 AM
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timbo399

This is the attitude you would hear in the 1970s about carrying a double stack 9mm or in the 1980s and halfway thru the 1990s about LEOs having an AR in the patrol car.
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  #24  
Old 07-09-2019, 1:12 AM
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Gotta love my 10mm’s. I carry a Glock 29sf.
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  #25  
Old 07-09-2019, 1:45 AM
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It's like arguing religion and no one can ever prove the other wrong. So to be diplomatic and defuse the situation, when I hear my friends arguing and one says "I've seen too many stories about cops shooting people over and over with a 9mm and not stopping them so I'm going to a .40SW since I'm not a woman or European", and the other says the same thing, but is going to a .45, I say "calm down fellas; you're both right!"
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  #26  
Old 07-09-2019, 7:32 AM
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I agree this argument will keep going until phased plasma pulse small arms become a reality.

It’s just funny listening to all the reasons why their beloved caliber is the choice.
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Old 07-09-2019, 8:25 AM
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Friends don't let friends arguing over caliber choices
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Old 07-09-2019, 8:35 AM
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Another 45acp vs blah blah caliber verbal slap fest!!! About damn time.

Carry on people.
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Old 07-09-2019, 8:36 AM
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I’ll take my 9mm and 10mm over my 45acp everyday of the week.
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Old 07-09-2019, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbo399 View Post
I've had the same SW1911 as my night stand gun for years. Cocked and locked with Speer Gold Dot .45's. And a Mossberg 5900A1 very close by.

Now someday if 3 masked guys came knocking, or rather blasting through my sliding glass door, maybe I would have wished I had put some of those 20rd MecGar freedom mags I bought for my Sig P226 9mm to use. And replaced my Mossberg 12 gauge with a AK47 and 30 rd mag.

But I haven't made the change yet.
3 masked guys come blasting through my door I’m going straight for my loaded 12 gauge pump and I’m grabbing my #4 buckshots in case I need to reload.
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Old 07-09-2019, 8:49 AM
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i like the bigger the better but shoot what you are able to handle. my wife shoots 9mm and i shoot 40 s&w.
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Old 07-09-2019, 8:57 AM
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Placement is King, penetration Queen, and all else is angels dancing on the head of a pin.

That said, I prefer 45.

It's a personal thing, I just happen to like it for my own reasons.

All bullet advancement that makes smaller calibers (9mm) more effective are available for all calibers (45), so it comes down to your preference of more ammo or bigger bullets.

My hand doesn't fit well around a standard capacity double stack wonder nine, so for me it's a single stack and a bigger bullet.
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Old 07-09-2019, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTROKS View Post
I agree this argument will keep going until phased plasma pulse small arms become a reality.

It’s just funny listening to all the reasons why their beloved caliber is the choice.
Will that phased plasma rifle be in the 40-watt range? Because real men don't carry any plasma rifle that doesn't start with a "4"...….
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Old 07-09-2019, 9:02 AM
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A homeowner fired 39 shots at a naked women in his home

Then started punching her
The 12 year old son finally stabbed her in the next with a socket set

39 misses

Hits to center if available mass work
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Old 07-09-2019, 9:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTROKS View Post
3 masked guys come blasting through my door I’m going straight for my loaded 12 gauge pump and I’m grabbing my #4 buckshots in case I need to reload.
Yes. I only stated I'm sticking with my trusty 1911 because I have trained with it for many years. I have a lot of freedom mags for various 9mm's but still hasn't changed my HD set up.

Any home disturbance, the main job of my 1911 is to get me to my Mossberg 590A1 loaded with 00 buck and more on the side saddle (which is only 5 ft from our bed). Trained extensively with that Mossberg as well. Zero neighbors on either side of our house so over penetration not an issue.

I don't think that's living in the 70's, or 80's-- it's plenty of firepower and platforms I have trained with extensively.

Last edited by timbo399; 07-09-2019 at 9:23 AM..
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  #36  
Old 07-09-2019, 9:44 AM
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Wait... you mean you folks don't throw on your full kit (plate carrier, warbelt, etc..), safety equipment (eye/electronic ear pro), and tricked out rifle/pistol combo before running out to see what's going on?

Dammit, my internet research has failed me.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:01 AM
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Funny how many hall monitors on a 'Merica freedom! board want to tell us what we can discuss. Maybe next you can go to a car racing forum and tell people they can't debate Ford vs Chevy because that's been done.

I carry a p365 because it's small and fits in my waistband comfortably and I can shoot it well and the ammo is cheap and in the apocalypse 9mm is the caliber that will be in most dead people's/turned zombies' ammo lockers that I will be looting.

At home a 12 gauge, because you only need one shot and I don't want to kill my neighbors (well I do some of them but I cannot do so legally unless they force entry into my home in a riotous or tumultuous manner).

That Lucky Gunner Ammo guy toured Federal and one of their techs said caliber and energy are irrelevant because all handguns are below the velocities for permanent cavity. But my problem with the ballistic gel argument is that humans are not bags of 100% gel. If you look at a person from the front, what percentage of their body is not protected by bone? Other than the stomach, I want a lot of energy, and dare I say, penetration?

Well, glad I solved that debate once and for all. Off to the Ford vs Chevy threads to resolve more arguments!
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:12 AM
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My bedside gun is a Glock 21SF. It holds 13+1 so it's only 2 rounds less than a Glock 19.
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  #39  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:23 AM
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I have a P-14 .45 in the nightstand. For CCW, though, I do rely upon 9mm as the P-14 is just too big.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:25 AM
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In the example video..A 12 ga would have been ideal. Hard to approach without a knee... As far as 9 vs 40 vs 45...After a decade of keeping a 9mm Sig in my nightstand...I switched to a P220....with an extra mag.
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