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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#961
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And Obumma is from Kenya/Hawaii. Didn't stop his political corrupt career in Chitcago/DC did it?
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#962
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How is it that the parties are not allowed to submit their respective positions, but the court is asked to to delay to for further briefings to allow more current and complete information about the matter in front of them? |
#963
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As I said upthread, it’s not a delay tactic, it’s a “who gets the last word” tactic. They want SCOTUS to speak first and then they want to dance around whatever SCOTUS says to acheive their ends. They think they are better than SCOTUS.
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#964
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If the SCOTUS decision is broad, Hawaii goes back and tweaks their laws slightly to “make them consistent with NYSRPA”. Ok, we are “must issue”, but you may only carry a single shot flintlock on the 3rd Wednesday of the month not within 3 miles of a school. Oh, and you need $1 million in liability insurance and 90 hours of training (and it will take 2 years to write a curriculum and certify trainers). ...and the 9th circuit declares Young moot because the law on which the case is based changed. The truth is 1 Supreme Court case isn’t going to matter. States and courts hostile to the 2A will tap dance around any ruling. The only thing that will make a difference is if SCOTUS gets active in smacking down these rulings. |
#965
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That’s what I think is the only upside as well. Though I think SCOTUS is going to rule more broadly anyway.
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#966
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__________________
NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#967
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Huh? I don't know about purchasing but I thought the ccw process in dc is fairly easy these days.
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In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice. |
#968
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__________________
In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice. |
#969
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It's late and I'm tired and I can't remember (and there's not a Wiki page re. Young), but did they ask for cert for it? If CA9 thinks it's close enough to NYSRPA to wait for a decision in it before going en banc, maybe use that as an argument that it should be granted cert.?
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#970
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You have to be able to buy it before you can carry it. The Heller case wasn't just about carrying, it was about the fact that even getting a license to purchase was pretty much impossible. Research Emily Miller and how long it took her AFTER the Heller decision.
__________________
NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#971
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__________________
WTB: Magazines for S&W M&P 9c Last edited by Kukuforguns; 02-17-2019 at 9:44 AM.. |
#972
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How would that play out, if we get a decision in one or both of those in our favor after orals in Young en banc? Cut it off at the knees? ETA: I guess that if Rogers or Gould is granted cert, CA9 will update Young en banc saying it is stayed for not only the NYSRPA decision, but also their decision/s.
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 02-18-2019 at 11:32 PM.. |
#973
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So, not a legalese speaker/reader here. So for those like me:
What do the latest rulings/decisions actually mean? Does the current standing of this case, and/or its prospective outcome, actually help us, or hurt us?
__________________
Sorry, not sorry. 🎺 Dear autocorrect, I'm really getting tired of your shirt! |
#974
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It's hard to say there is a prospective outcome right now in Young. Basically this isn't the case to watch for the time being. The case in New York that the Supreme Court has agreed to hear is where the action is now at, and how they write their decision in that case will shape the 9th circuit's next move here. The 9th circuit wants the status quo (no carry) so this case will have to go to SCOTUS for it to help us. How tight of a corner they end up tiled into after the New York case will determine how long that takes. |
#975
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#976
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__________________
240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#978
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What is really interesting to me, is what SCOTUS is going to do on Friday in Rogers. If the Court asks NJ to file a response, that is very good news as it suggests the Court is willing to consider granting cert to a second 2d Amendment case for next term. CJ Roberts has a strong desire to preserve/promote the legitimacy of SCOTUS. I'm afraid he will try to obstruct efforts to consider multiple 2d Amendment cases during any given term because anti-civil liberty advocates will perceive this as moving too fast.
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WTB: Magazines for S&W M&P 9c |
#979
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__________________
240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#980
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Here is a debate between Dr. Halbrook and the Council for the Defendants (i.e., Massachusetts) about Gould v. Morgan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmuN-En_1Pw At the end, Council for the Defendants states they do not want this case to get cert and (also including his views throughout) that clearly the right exists outside but the question is regulation. They also talk about how Kavanaugh, in another DC case argued by Halbrook, dissented on the ruling (registration and semi-autos) by adding that strict scrutiny is not going to help them (Dr. Halbrook argued for strict!!!) and then Kav went on to history, text, and tradition. They also talk about "long-standing" which might be bad news bears if it means anything ~ 100 years which Council for Defense argues. |
#981
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Your concern, that the Ninth Circuit gamed the selection process for the en banc court, is a different concern than the stay itself and my comment was not intended to minimize that concern. The Ninth Circuit, if it believes SCOTUS' decision in NYSRPA may help resolve Young, had two options after SCOTUS granted cert in NYSRPA: 1) Issue an order staying the petition for en banc review pending the decision from SCOTUS; or 2) Grant the petition for en banc reconsideration and then stay the en banc proceedings. Both options would have stopped further proceedings in Young (i.e., the case would not be remanded to the district court). There are two main differences between those two options. If option 1 had been chosen, the Ninth Circuit could have denied or granted the petition for en banc review after it had a chance to review the NYSRPA opinion. Choosing option 2 changes the pool of judges eligible for participation on the en banc court. You can draw your own conclusions about why option 2 was chosen.
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WTB: Magazines for S&W M&P 9c |
#982
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__________________
Sorry, not sorry. 🎺 Dear autocorrect, I'm really getting tired of your shirt! |
#983
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#985
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Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
__________________
WTB: Magazines for S&W M&P 9c |
#986
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#987
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This can go both ways. Another perspective is that his concern with SCOTUS legitimacy has him itchy since so many lower courts are refusing to make an honest read of Heller and McDonald, two cases he signed onto. So it's potentially personal (not that such matters ever play a role...) as well as an opportunity to clarify the sanctity of SCOTUS rulings to lower courts--yes, we mean what we say. Plus, it would be pretty hard to argue that SCOTUS favors hearing 2A cases above others seeing as they've heard only three in ten years or so.
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#988
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That should certainly be offensive to the Chief Justice. After all, did those anti-civil-liberty advocates claim the Roberts Courts has been moving too fast on 1A or 4A issues? Because AFAICT, the Roberts Courts have averaged over 3 4A cases per year and almost 4 1A cases per year: and the 4A cases:
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#989
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How many networks have a strong animus towards the Second Amendment? CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN? I think they do.
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#990
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It's instructive to read the GOA amicus brief in NYSRPA. It basically responds to every argument raised by NYC in defense of their law by quoting Kavanaugh's previous opinions/dissents in which he all but screams "SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED!" at identical arguments. The GOA guys troll hard. |
#991
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Since you mentioned some concern on the parts of these entities about "moving too quickly" wrt civil rights opinions from SCOTUS, I thought it would be interesting to see how "quickly" (can't believe we're using that word in the same sentence as SCOTUS or our judicial system in general) SCOTUS moved wrt other enumerated civil rights, and as I think is shown in the graphics, SCOTUS moves at near-light speed when it comes to the 1A and 4A, at least by comparison with the 2A. Long way of getting to my real question, sorry... So we can see that the anti-2A media, whining about "moving too quickly" wrt the 2A, would have no leg to stand on, given that they haven't complained about the Court moving too quickly wrt the 1A or 4A. So Roberts giving them credence is based on what? Their claim being easily shown to be arbitrary? If Roberts was truly concerned about the Courts' legitimacy, that would be one thing if the media was shown to be a source of legitimacy, but you mention merely the influence of the media, not their legitimacy, and thus are claiming that Roberts is swayed by a media popularity contest, not by true concerns about legitimacy. Since we have plenty of time before SCOTUS touches another 2A case, let me run a contrary idea up the flagpole, one which, like yours, also hinges on Roberts' concerns about his Courts' legitimacy. Since, as Roberts maintains, the Court is apolitical, a true threat to the legitimacy of the Court can only come from complaints within the Court itself that the Court was behaving illegitimately, by, in this case, neglecting its duties and disfavoring certain enumerated civil rights. How could such complaints exist from within the Court itself? As you well know -- dissents to denial of cert from more than one Justice. Who better to judge the legitimacy of the Court than the members of the Court themselves? And we have a growing number of them who have gone public in voicing their concerns. My position is that these complaints are the true bee in Roberts' bonnet WRT to the legitimacy of the Court, not any amount of noise from outside. So... what if Roberts' concerns about legitimacy are founded in these complaints from his own Associate Justices? If my position here is correct, then he will take steps to address these complaints. But until now, he hasn't had a conservative majority, so granting cert will only lead to further destruction of the 2A. Not saying Roberts wants Constitutional Carry or anything even remotely close to that, but he signed on to Heller, so let's say he is very mildly pro-2A. NYSRPA would then be a perfect vehicle -- increment the count of 2A cases taken, but not do anything that gets grenade launchers into the hands of babies. And it's also the perfect incremental step -- a case like Caetano, where you can make a broader claim but not have to bear the brunt of the backlash. Modern weapons are protected, re-iterates Caetano, but all it really did was give a taser to an at-risk woman. Still, the fact that we have that stepping stone could be critical to future decisions, right? So NYSRPA -- 2 dudes in Manhattan can go shooting on their hunting properties in Pennsylvania or whatever. Who cares, right? Media can't cry too much about blood in the streets. But transporting gets protected, maybe as much as the Right exists outside the home. So then you combine the two harmless decisions, Caetano and NYSRPA, and we get cert to Rogers or etc, and suddenly the 2A protects carrying your modern weapon outside the home. The Court's legitimacy is addressed, the 2A is in the best position it's been in for a long time, and the media couldn't even whine about the coming checkmate, because it's too abstruse for their readers to grasp... I admit combining the two decisions is very possibly a Bridge Too Far for Roberts, too much coffee...somebody print a retraction...
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#992
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Not the worst thing that can come out of a case. I think this is ATLEAST better than getting struck down entirely. Hopefully the case vs NYC will yield positive results and we can be affirmed right to carry.
__________________
Welcome to California; Where the liberals are liberals and the conservatives are too! |
#993
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__________________
WTB: Magazines for S&W M&P 9c |
#995
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It's annoying but it makes perfect sense. No one knows what's going to be the result of the NYSPRA case and obviously that case is highly likely to touch on public and "bear" issues which are the same issues as in Young. Makes no sense to go through an en banc when the entire landscape might change during the process.
__________________
"Weakness is provocative." Senator Tom Cotton, president in 2024 Victoria "Tori" Rose Smith's life mattered. |
#996
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#997
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It does if you don't like the result and can punt another year or so.
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#999
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Bingo. Vacating the panel opinion means that the prior status quo returns until...until....sometime. The longer that is the better. But ti also suggest that the SCOTUS will clarify/specify the standard of review that applies in these cases, and that the Ninth's (obvious) sliding scale intermediate scrutiny is facing the dustbin of history. At least one would hope so.
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#1000
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__________________
“We are twice armed if we fight with faith.” ― Plato |
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