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  #1  
Old 12-14-2018, 6:21 PM
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Default pattern and shot disbursement - Testing Results

Well I had my first day out today for this experiment and below are the days results.
I will say this up front based on my criteria #6, 10, 3 anything in between is out as off 5 yards.
* My criteria "pattern at 15 yards of 4" or 5" from center of group".

Today i used a Mossberg 590A1 18.5 inch shotgun.


Ammunition varied based on what I could easily find at Alamo Pawn, Turners and Sportsmans Warehouse

Ammunition List below:
Kent 2 3/4" 12G #6 Turkey
Hornandy Black 2 3/4" 12G 00 Buck 8 pellet
Winchester 2 3/4" 12G #1 Buck 16 pellets
Remington 2 3/4" 12G 00 Buck 8 pellet - Managed Recoil
Royal Buck 2 3/4" 12G 00 Buck 9 pellet
Royal Buck 2 3/4" 12G 00 Buck 9 pellet - Low Recoil
Federal 2 3/4" 12G 00 Buck 8 pellet - Flight Control
Winchester 2 3/4" 12G 00 Buck 9 pellet - Low Recoil
Fiocchi 2 3/4" 12G #3 Bird
Remington 2 3/4" 12G #6 Bird







The target setup was 5 yards, 10 yards and 15 yards with steel at 20 yards.


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Last edited by pennys dad; 12-14-2018 at 6:29 PM..
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Old 12-14-2018, 6:21 PM
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Todays results. WOW There is going to be a looooooooooooonnnnng post....

Bird shot may be a suitable option with a full choke shotgun but for this cylinder bore 590 A1 it is a BIG NO. Remember my criteria is 4 to 5" from center to edge.

5 yards



10 yards



15 yards



Results of Royal Buck, Royal Buck Low recoil

5 yards



10 yards



15 yards



20 yards



Moving this to next thread only 10 images allowed per post.
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Ps 25:4-5 NLT Show me the right path, O Lord; point out the road for me to follow. Lead me by your truth and teach me, for you are the God who saves me. All day long I put my hope in you.

Last edited by pennys dad; 12-14-2018 at 8:04 PM..
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2018, 6:22 PM
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Kind of a surprise but bombed at 15 yards
Win #1 Buck 16 Pellet


5 yard


10 yards



15 yards



20 yards



Winchester Low Recoil 00 Buck 9 Pellet and Federal 8 Pellet 00 buck Flight Control. Federal FC of course was super awesome.
Winchester Low Recoil was interesting and did well up to 15 yards.

5 yards



10 yards



15 yards



20 yards
Winchester


and

Federal - WALLOPED the steel at 20 yards, that stain in low left is one solid hit.
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Last edited by pennys dad; 12-14-2018 at 8:31 PM..
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Old 12-14-2018, 6:22 PM
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and one more
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Old 12-14-2018, 8:32 PM
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holding another
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:39 AM
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PD: the only groups I saw that were good were the Flite Control Feds.

You really need to look at sending the 590 barrels to Vang Comp They will work you a deal on multiples.

My M500 patterns 00 into 3" at 15 yards and 7" at 25,, without FC wads.

#8 is 7" at 15 yards.

That's just with having the barrels worked on.

Randy


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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 12-15-2018 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
PD: the only groups I saw that were good were the Flite Control Feds.

You really need to look at sending the 590 barrels to Vang Comp They will work you a deal on multiples.

My M500 patterns 00 into 3" at 15 yards and 7" at 25,, without FC wads.

#8 is 7" at 15 yards.

That's just with having the barrels worked on.

Randy


I was just about to recommend Vang Comp. I bought a custom 870 & an extra unported barrel from him back when he was in Santa Barbara. Great 15-yd. patterns - all on a silhouette head.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2018, 1:40 AM
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Interesting.

You're far more ambitious than me though. When I was trying to find a defensive load for my m4, I simply started with Federal FC. I was more than pleased at it's patterning out to 25 yards so I ran 100 rounds through to make sure it would cycle reliably and called it good.

Thank you for posting though!
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Old 12-15-2018, 7:09 AM
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good info thanks fc is good for the money
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Old 12-15-2018, 7:52 AM
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I agree I need to get a shotgun done by Vang and while Karen and I are out and about looking for yard sales this morning, I will also be looking for his shop.
There is a great deal of need that drives this kind of work.
To teach HD shotgun I need to understand it and experience what I can so I am ready to have discussions. So i take classes, study practices, experiment and pull together what makes sense to the journey I am on with this subject.
I am also a firm believer that I should be able to run with off the shelf, mainly because a regular student will bring whats off the shelf. Plus it's fun and I get to shoot alot.
That's why I am doing this. It's the same thing that drives me with 22lr, 5.56, 9mm and soon 6.5 and .308, maybe even .45.
But for now it's 12G through a 590 A1.
Sunday after Church will be the 870 Wingmaster.
I may drop the 20" 590 from the experiment because that gun will go to Vang.
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Old 12-15-2018, 9:10 AM
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Good on you for taking the time to do it. It's remarkable that most shooters don't. Now the only sucky part is when your preferred load is changed or discontinued five years from now
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Old 12-15-2018, 9:45 AM
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That's weird. My 590A1 shoot far tighter groups with everything compared to yours. at 5 yards, everything is basically smaller than a fist sized hole. At 10 yards, it's about a 7" to 8" spread. At 15 yards, it's about a foot.
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Old 12-15-2018, 10:14 AM
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Generally you can expect about a 1" increase in pattern size for every yard of distance from a cylinder bore shotgun.

If you are looking at teaching Tactical Shotgun you probably should go to a Front Sight Tactical Shotgun class a few times to see how they teach it and how to actually run the gun. You should note that the class is conducted off a set of cards that go thru every topic and done the same way every time. It is pretty important to do it like this.

You will also need to familiarize yourself with many different platforms including Pump, Semi Auto and even the single and multi barrel shotguns.

People at entry levels are going to want to learn to run what they brung and you need to be able to answer their questions and act like you know what you are talking about.

I know you are probably familiar with these different guns but if you are teaching "Tactical" use you need to know how to run all those guns accordingly. The biggest problem with shotguns is the lack of ammo on board and so Port Loading and Tactical Reloading is Key. Also just the method of holding the rounds is something that has to be learned until it is second nature. It is 90% of the battle. If you can't manipulate the rounds in an efficient manner you can't get them into the gun. See Pic

At the very least if you go online you can buy a Front Sight Dry Practice Manual for Shotguns, that will cover all needed subjects.

Lots to know here. And there are lots of people here that are members, there are also some here put the place down as some substandard Ship Show that is ran by a Snake Oil Salesman.

I say with 220,000 members and 80,000 per year going thru classes at a 550 AC site with 50+ ranges, that the haters are FOS, and don't know what they are talking about! If it wasn't First Rate,,, nobody would be there!

And they probably have never been there either..

Go look at www.frontsight.com

Get trained! You might need it sooner than you think.

As far as the Flight Control Ammunition Federal has discontinued it and anything out there is all that is out there.

I will be talking to them about this dumb marketing decision at SHOT next month. They had the best over the counter pattern control out there and they just decided to stop making it? Sounds real smart to me. Especially with the upsurge in Tactical Shotgunning and 3 gun competitions.

Gotta love bean counters.

Good Luck on your quest.

Randy

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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 12-15-2018 at 10:24 AM..
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
I agree I need to get a shotgun done by Vang and while Karen and I are out and about looking for yard sales this morning, I will also be looking for his shop.
There is a great deal of need that drives this kind of work.
To teach HD shotgun I need to understand it and experience what I can so I am ready to have discussions. So i take classes, study practices, experiment and pull together what makes sense to the journey I am on with this subject.
I am also a firm believer that I should be able to run with off the shelf, mainly because a regular student will bring whats off the shelf. Plus it's fun and I get to shoot alot.
That's why I am doing this. It's the same thing that drives me with 22lr, 5.56, 9mm and soon 6.5 and .308, maybe even .45.
But for now it's 12G through a 590 A1.
Sunday after Church will be the 870 Wingmaster.
I may drop the 20" 590 from the experiment because that gun will go to Vang.
Here ya go https://vangcomp.com/contact/
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Old 12-15-2018, 1:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langss View Post
Yes PD; the Vang Comped gun will shoot better than the other one, but you don't want to drop using it just because nobody else on the block has one. You need to show them how good it works so they will get it done too.

And both of the M 590 barrels need it as they are both going to be used for the same purpose.

As far as your quest to find the best patterning Shot Loads, you already have.

The Federal Flight Control ammo is "THE " tightest patterning Factory Loaded ammo there is. Nothing else is close.

All the rest is pretty much the same and works as good as the individual gun works.

I haven't been able to do better with any of my reloads and I load 4 different slugs and buckshot as well. Nobody makes a Wad that duplicates FC performance, and that's where the whole problem lies. The FC wad is the Key to the performance.

Randy
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Old 12-15-2018, 2:57 PM
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Yeah with your criteria stick with slugs.
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Old 12-17-2018, 6:13 PM
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Yep! thats exactly why I choose the Federal FC

Dunno if you saw this link in the locked thread or not OP

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...0&postcount=99
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Old 12-17-2018, 7:08 PM
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Didn't see it, buuuuuttttt this was an experiment that I need to go through.
Now on the Federal FC. Yes it is great stuff but it's no longer made which means (For Me Only) the ammunition must be easily attainable Alamo had it in the back, but neither Turners nor Sportsmans had it.

The winner for me is Hornandy Black. I will follow up later with more results.
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Old 12-18-2018, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Generally you can expect about a 1" increase in pattern size for every yard of distance from a cylinder bore shotgun.

If you are looking at teaching Tactical Shotgun you probably should go to a Front Sight Tactical Shotgun class a few times to see how they teach it and how to actually run the gun. You should note that the class is conducted off a set of cards that go thru every topic and done the same way every time. It is pretty important to do it like this.

You will also need to familiarize yourself with many different platforms including Pump, Semi Auto and even the single and multi barrel shotguns.

People at entry levels are going to want to learn to run what they brung and you need to be able to answer their questions and act like you know what you are talking about.

I know you are probably familiar with these different guns but if you are teaching "Tactical" use you need to know how to run all those guns accordingly. The biggest problem with shotguns is the lack of ammo on board and so Port Loading and Tactical Reloading is Key. Also just the method of holding the rounds is something that has to be learned until it is second nature. It is 90% of the battle. If you can't manipulate the rounds in an efficient manner you can't get them into the gun. See Pic

At the very least if you go online you can buy a Front Sight Dry Practice Manual for Shotguns, that will cover all needed subjects.

Lots to know here. And there are lots of people here that are members, there are also some here put the place down as some substandard Ship Show that is ran by a Snake Oil Salesman.

I say with 220,000 members and 80,000 per year going thru classes at a 550 AC site with 50+ ranges, that the haters are FOS, and don't know what they are talking about! If it wasn't First Rate,,, nobody would be there!

And they probably have never been there either..

Go look at www.frontsight.com

Get trained! You might need it sooner than you think.

As far as the Flight Control Ammunition Federal has discontinued it and anything out there is all that is out there.

I will be talking to them about this dumb marketing decision at SHOT next month. They had the best over the counter pattern control out there and they just decided to stop making it? Sounds real smart to me. Especially with the upsurge in Tactical Shotgunning and 3 gun competitions.

Gotta love bean counters.

Good Luck on your quest.

Randy

The hell they completely discontinued ALL of Flight control!? I thought they might have discontinued #1 cuz I can't find that anywhere but to discountinue 00 is Ludacris.

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
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Old 12-25-2018, 2:18 PM
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I guess to really tune patterns, should have choke tubes that you can interchange. Mossberg actually makes one 590A1 in 18.5" that is setup for choke tubes. I was looking at that model myself, until I saw a 20" 590A1 on sale with the XS sights anyway.
Contemplating sending the barrel off to have it setup for screw in chokes. Have and over/under I'm contemplating having done also.
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Old 12-25-2018, 8:27 PM
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And everyone always thinks I’m weird when I say I use a 20” barrel with chokes. Usually run a modified with buckshot. A decent barrel with chokes is also cheaper than anything Vang Comp.

Great post OP!

Last edited by deckhandmike; 12-25-2018 at 8:30 PM..
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Old 01-09-2019, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
Now on the Federal FC. Yes it is great stuff but it's no longer made.

https://www.sgammo.com/site_search?p...=FLITE-CONTROL
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:57 AM
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SGA ammo won't ship anything to CA period. Already had it out with him.

Pretty disappointed with his response.

Randy
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Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

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