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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 12-18-2018, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TruOil View Post
I think everyone should send the ATF a box of rubber bands with a note: "I am hereby turning in my bump stocks for destruction."
Lol...

Or Belt Loops.


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  #42  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by audiophil2 View Post
Just chain 2 bumpstocks together and call them bumpchucks.
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  #43  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Demo2A View Post
So, it is not unlawful for CA to keep supporting sanctuary **** even though Trump gave EO saying he will cut funds, since there is a backdoor and his EO means jack? Ok, understood (not a sarcastic answer, if you took it like, just i understand now.)



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All this EO does is tell agencies to cut off funds to sanctuary states. He can do that.

He can't tell states what to do as they are not agencies of the federal government. If states want to remain or become sanctuary states and suffer the loss of federal funds, they can do that. Or they can decide they want the money more than illegals and behave properly.

So it's not a backdoor regulation and it does have meaning, although congress and the courts could step in if they believe there is something unconstitutional about it.
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Last edited by dustoff31; 12-18-2018 at 3:06 PM..
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  #44  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:04 PM
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This is why Kisor v. Wilkie is so important. As far as I can tell there's not much that can be done about this new regulation unless that goes the right way. There's a thread on it in this section too.
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  #45  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
All this EO does is tell agencies to cut off funds to sanctuary states. He can do that.



He can't tell states what to do as they are not agencies of the federal government. If states want to remain or become sanctuary states and suffer the loss of federal funds, they can do that. Or they can decide they want the money more than illegals and behave properly.



So it's not a backdoor regulation and it does have meaning, although congress and the courts could step in if they believe there is something unconstitutional about it.
Ok, thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.

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  #46  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
1st off what kind of RKBA advocate posts something from the AP which has been proud to be antigun and another media wing of the democrat party?

2nd this whole slob stock issue is being used by anti gunners on this forum and elsewhere to try and drive down the Presidents numbers.

3rd anyone who uses or would want a slob stock is not gun culture and would be unable to hit a 20 minute target@100yards unless off a bench. Maybe not even then !

4th the story here which is far above many cal gunners intelligence is why this mass murder in Las Vegas has fallen off the radar, when no answers have been provided as to motive or why response was delayed, press conferences cancelled etc,etc etc.

But hey cal gunners go back to the AP and suck in their vile propaganda and your rights will go away along with President Trump !
1st: I'm sorry, next time I'll use a source that won't trigger you.

2nd: Trump is doing a fine job of losing his base all on his own

3rd: so?

4th: this has very little to do with the shooting. The fact you are trying to conflate the two shows you're more interested in protecting Trump than standing with your fellow gun owners when there is a massive abuse of power.

Last edited by Dantedamean; 12-18-2018 at 3:12 PM.. Reason: Typo
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  #47  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:54 PM
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After Vegas and Florida Trump had a choice, do something or the Democrats and gun control groups, backed by the emotional outrage across the country would do it for him. I for one see this bump stock issue as a way to diffuse what would have been a much worse result, something like a nationwide assault weapon/high capacity ban. The reality that those who are screaming and yelling about this fail to see is that the nation and the courts are not buying your strict interpretation of the 2nd A. Trump with the backing of the NRA chose a course that would do the least harm putting the focusing not on firearms, but on a rarely used accessory and in a way that can be challenged in court.
But keep going with the win every battle, no matter how small or trivial it is. Keep ignoring the current mood of the nation and the courts. It's a good way to win some battles, but lose the war.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 12-18-2018 at 4:38 PM.. Reason: Fat fingers on small phone
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  #48  
Old 12-18-2018, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
1st: I'm sorry, next time I'll use a source that won't trigger you.

2nd: Trump is doing a fine job of losing his base all on his own

3rd: so?

4th: this has very little to do with the shooting. The fact you are trying to conflate the two shows you're more interested in protecting Trump than standing with your fellow gun owners when there is a massive abuse of power.
Good no legitimate RKBA advocate should ever use an anti gun source for anything. By promoting those entities shows a person is either anti gun or uneducated!

Wrong Trump is still at 49% approval in spite of the big democrat media and democrat cal gun trolls hammering him for everything he does or doesn't do !
No I agree with the NRA ! Throw slob stocks under the bus to placate the democrat mob!

No, slob stock shooters are not gun people but fall in an entirely different category . I will not risk another ban by pointing out that these particularly loud,obnoxious,boisterious ,poorly dressed and poorly groomed individuals are the ones who give dignified marksman and gun culture people a bad name.

If I did that I could get banned for a personal attack which this is not.
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  #49  
Old 12-18-2018, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Now that there is just about the funniest thing I have read in a long time.

How exactly could the Democrats pass nationwide legislation when the Republicans control both houses of congress and if by some feat of magic they managed to do so could they sneak it by Trump without him vetoing it?

Please help me, I can't stop laughing.

Also what's a "may ban" is that where we go directly from April to June?
I also find your lack of reading comprehension amusing, it's almost as funny as your claims to be a supporter of gun rights.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #50  
Old 12-18-2018, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
This thread is a pretty good indicator of who owns guns and is an advocate for the Second Amendment and those who are only using gun rights to advance their political objectives. I doubt some of the people posting here even own guns.
Were you looking in the mirror when you posted this?
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #51  
Old 12-18-2018, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Hey I'm not the one claiming Emperor Cheeto is saving the Fudds from Bumpybois!
Herr Goebbels, what are you mumbling about now.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #52  
Old 12-18-2018, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by code_blue View Post


I think this picture is missing couple drawings. According to this cartoon, it says in order for a bill to become law, it needs support from some colorful people in dc, 1 signature (presumably that's the President's hand), and then becomes law

*i am only basing off the 6 segment cartoon drawings*



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  #53  
Old 12-18-2018, 6:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
This thread is a pretty good indicator of who owns guns and is an advocate for the Second Amendment and those who are only using gun rights to advance their political objectives. I doubt some of the people posting here even own guns.
If you think anyone with a pulse thinks YOU fall on the correct side of that line, comrade, your interpersonal skills are as wanting as your persuasive writing "skills"
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  #54  
Old 12-18-2018, 7:02 PM
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Russian user name. Pushing off the wall theories.
Spreading misinformation.
I think I discovered someones real identity.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...der_trump.html
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #55  
Old 12-18-2018, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Oh, I understand your position perfectly. You defense is that it is good that the president who hid under the bed so he wouldn't have to serve in the military but is a great patriot nonetheless, took away some of your gun rights because the Democrats even though they don't control either house of Congress or the presidency might have taken away even more of your gun rights.

Now I have to admit, I find that a strange argument to begin with but what makes it really incredible is that for eight years the Democrats controlled the executive branch and for two of those years they also controlled both houses of Congress and yet they did not take away any gun rights. As a matter of fact they determined that bump stocks were legal.
As I said, your lack of reading comprehension is amusing as is your refusal to directly address the points made and instead distract from the points made with various straw men. But I am not surprised to see that you continue with your Goebbels like post.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #56  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:07 PM
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This is much more about bumpstocks. Take a moment and stop fighting amongst each other and read, investigate what's going on. Next up - red flag laws.
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  #57  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:13 PM
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Soooo back on topic...

Runs afoul of the takings clause in the 5th right?

I also will go out there and say that as useless as some some of us or most of us might think these slide fire stocks are.. they could potentially be useful.. if not only for fun but also for the main reason behind the 2A...


Still in stock
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Last edited by Ninety; 12-18-2018 at 9:25 PM..
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  #58  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by EvoXguy View Post
This is much more about bumpstocks.
I don't think this is a big deal at all.
Quote:
“The term ‘machine gun’ includes bump-stock devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semi-automatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.”
The "single pull of the trigger" ends when the "trigger resets". No amount of hand-waving can make it otherwise. This is going to be the most brain-dead overturn in history.
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  #59  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
This thread is a pretty good indicator of who owns guns and is an advocate for the Second Amendment and those who are only using gun rights to advance their political objectives. I doubt some of the people posting here even own guns.
How is that so? I for one have several guns, many of witch are CA BBAWs.
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  #60  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
If you think anyone with a pulse thinks YOU fall on the correct side of that line, comrade, your interpersonal skills are as wanting as your persuasive writing "skills"
Yes, he is not clear on what side of the line he truly stands.
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  #61  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
I don't think this is a big deal at all.

The "single pull of the trigger" ends when the "trigger resets". No amount of hand-waving can make it otherwise. This is going to be the most brain-dead overturn in history.
Yep, this is why I believe that putting out a bump stock ban in this manner was a way for Trump and the NRA to defuse a very emotional and dangerous anti-gun sentiment running through the country after Vegas and Florida. It appeased peoples emotions without doing serious lasting damage.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #62  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Now that there is just about the funniest thing I have read in a long time.

How exactly could the Democrats pass nationwide legislation when the Republicans control both houses of congress and if by some feat of magic they managed to do so could they sneak it by Trump without him vetoing it?

Please help me, I can't stop laughing.

Also what's a "may ban" is that where we go directly from April to June?
Both houses? Did you miss the last election?
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  #63  
Old 12-19-2018, 6:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Demo2A View Post
I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it, if it comes across his desk*

There fixed it for you. You angry little man.

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You ignorant little man....it's a DOJ regulation..not a law. It was never voted on and passed in congress. It is also not a Executive Order....it is simply a DOJ regulation. Learn the difference.

Don't get me started on the legality of Regulations.....which carry the weight of laws without the due process of being written like a law.....
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  #64  
Old 12-19-2018, 7:36 AM
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Anyone who supports this ban and thinks compromise is good and necessary; I question your motives and passion for protecting our rights as gun owners. You will never convince me otherwise. Not. One. More. Inch.
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  #65  
Old 12-19-2018, 7:44 AM
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Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
Anyone who supports this ban and thinks compromise is good and necessary; I question your motives and passion for protecting our rights as gun owners. You will never convince me otherwise. Not. One. More. Inch.
And how exactly do you propose implementing your "not one more inch" strategy without the support of the public and the courts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #66  
Old 12-19-2018, 7:53 AM
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This reg is simply a half-hearted, disingenuous way to try to show distance between Trump and the NRA. They (Trump and the NRA) needed to do something after it was posited that the NRA was taking Russian money and funneling it into Trump's campaign.
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  #67  
Old 12-19-2018, 7:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Oh, I understand your position perfectly. You defense is that it is good that the president who hid under the bed so he wouldn't have to serve in the military but is a great patriot nonetheless, took away some of your gun rights because the Democrats even though they don't control either house of Congress or the presidency might have taken away even more of your gun rights.

Now I have to admit, I find that a strange argument to begin with but what makes it really incredible is that for eight years the Democrats controlled the executive branch and for two of those years they also controlled both houses of Congress and yet they did not take away any gun rights. As a matter of fact they determined that bump stocks were legal.
Yep, that sums up Trickster perfectly. Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.

Trump had to do this so the Democrats, who have neither the presidency, nor congress, would have somehow magically legislated this themselves.

How delusional to you have to be to actually believe this?
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  #68  
Old 12-19-2018, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Yep, that sums up Trickster perfectly. Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.

Trump had to do this so the Democrats, who have neither the presidency, nor congress, would have somehow magically legislated this themselves.

How delusional to you have to be to actually believe this?
How delusional do you have to be to call this a gun confiscation order?
Please tell us, where can we find a list of specific gun models that are being confiscated?
And please show us where Trump signed anything like what you just stated.

You really aren't very good at this troll stuff are you. Heck, you make Carlos look like a genius.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 12-19-2018 at 8:14 AM..
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  #69  
Old 12-19-2018, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
And how exactly do you propose implementing your "not one more inch" strategy without the support of the public and the courts?
Yellow jackets and MOPP suits?
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  #70  
Old 12-19-2018, 9:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
I believe that "shall not be infringed" means just that and that includes bump stocks. I am frankly amazed at the number of people on here who are happily passing around the lube because there is an R in the White House. I thought this was a gun rights forum not a Republican convention.
Theres your problem. Most people on here are religious Republicans first, and gun rights are second.
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  #71  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:00 AM
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In simple terms, the pro-gun people are considered always lumped together with Republicans in the same pro-choice are considered Democrats. In an age of red/blue and no green/yellow/purple, you have people divided into camps over few wedge issues: abortion, guns, immigration, race, economy, etc. I would reckon that moderates are simply not driven by gun issues in general. On an issue like bump stocks, we come to a place where federal bureaucracy, and not legislative discourse, making the rules and where even gun owners don’t all care. The bumpstocks might lead to other bans or other ramifications, but for now, the Courts will deal with this not on 2A grounds. So what next?

In the greater scheme of CA, you see a mixture of people here: the old farts (:P), the people leaving CA for good, maybe a few temporary tech geeks, the “LA/SF caused gun control”, and those waiting for the Courts to solve all the issues. Not sure how this vibes with the current and future mix of CA in terms of demographics, etc. Maybe CA will always be driving lawsuits on the 2A, but for real changes to happen maybe the key is to teach your gay, start-up CEO, Asian-Latino American, living in SF how to plink and empower them to protect themselves with a handgun if that is what CA will "look" like. If you can’t get people to appreciate shooting, you’ll never the ability to own a bumpstock nor will you have anything resembling common sense unless Federally-appointed judges say so. CA is changing, so “join or die” may involve bringing on-board new types of people and extending a hand, forgoing assumptions, and getting more people involved.

Last edited by BryMan92; 12-19-2018 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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There is a reason why politics is considered a game. It's not so cut and dry or hardlined as one my assume. Strategies must be employed to ensure the most efficient path to complete the mission with minimal casualties. That does not mean there won't be casualties or setbacks.

Shoot, look at the politics at play in your workplace alone.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:33 AM
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There is a reason why politics is considered a game. It's not so cut and dry or hardlined as one my assume. Strategies must be employed to ensure the most efficient path to complete the mission with minimal casualties. That does not mean there won't be casualties or setbacks.

Shoot, look at the politics at play in your workplace alone.
And that is why pragmatists are generally not thrilled by what is going on in the political arena these days. I used to be republican, now I am a straight up constitutionalist and am fed up with both red and blue trampling on it. We need a new party.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:11 PM
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Theres your problem. Most people on here are religious Republicans first, and gun rights are second.
Doubtful. This is a gun forum, not a GOP forum. Which do you think is the selecting factor? I spent 6 years loathing Rs under Bush before being abused worse by Ds under 'Bummer. It's not that I like republicans. It's that I despise democrats. And I'm curious to know if you really think Trump is either.
And religious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Jesus... you could not be more wrong on my account.

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Yep, that sums up Trickster perfectly. Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
And there it is. Peak exaggeration. Or is it peak delusion? I can't tell anymore. But yes, yes, "Orange Man Bad". There, there... stop hyperventilating. Bump stocks will be okay. This isn't remotely legal/enforceable. They'll be back on store shelves before your menarche
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Old 12-19-2018, 3:42 PM
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Today Trump is pushing Red Flag gun confiscation. A court can secretly decide to take your guns. Fighting it will be expensive or dangerous depending on the route you take.

"The Commission endorses Extreme Risk Protection Order laws, which give authorities a temporary way to keep those who threaten society from possessing or purchasing firearms."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...schools-safer/
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Old 12-19-2018, 3:43 PM
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Theres your problem. Most people on here are religious Republicans first, and gun rights are second.
Interesting to see Trump's new Justices ruling in favor of Planned Parenthood.
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Old 12-19-2018, 4:02 PM
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Today Trump is pushing Red Flag gun confiscation. A court can secretly decide to take your guns. Fighting it will be expensive or dangerous depending on the route you take.
Citation desperately needed. I saw nothing of the sort at the link you provided. This just looks like more doom porn
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Old 12-19-2018, 5:28 PM
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Please.

Regulations like this get tossed out routinely for runnign afoul of the constitution. Good OLD America, where the courts get to have the final say.

Its been like this since the beginning.
You are 100% correct. The only point I was trying to make is that nowadays things are implemented and constitutional rights seem to be overlooked rather quickly, due process doesn't seem to exist any longer, and all common sense seems to be thrown out the window simply to Garner a vote. very sad what is happening. Yes, this will be tied up in the courts for quite some time, sadly it should never have to get there in the first place.
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Old 12-19-2018, 7:15 PM
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It is meant to be a parody of those on this forum who seem to believe that if you disagree with them politically then you must not be a gun owner.
OK, I can agree with that.
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Heavens no, I did not miss the last election. Did you think that this was January?
No, but it did not sound like you were limiting you comments to what could possibly happen in the next couple or weeks.
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I believe that "shall not be infringed" means just that and that includes bump stocks.
Not sure that bump stocks are protected by the 2A but I do agree that "shall not be infringed" means just that.
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I am frankly amazed at the number of people on here who are happily passing around the lube because there is an R in the White House. I thought this was a gun rights forum not a Republican convention.
It is a gun rights forum and although I am registered as a Republican and support Trump, there are some issues that the Republicans support that I do not support (I am profoundly pro choice). I do not have to agree with everything that Trump does to support him. Just think how much worse it would be if HRC had been elected. On this basis, I can give Trump a fair amount of latitude.
As far as the bump stock issue goes, I think that he screwed up and maybe he is not quite as smart as I thought he was. But this is not enough for me to stop supporting him because the other options are more than I could stomach.
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Old 12-19-2018, 7:57 PM
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Sure. You seem all broken up about it. Thats why you posted.
If you're on facebook you should see all the crying about it.
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