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-   -   Consequences in CA--domestic vio (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1476086)

robertkjjj 09-11-2018 11:16 AM

Consequences in CA--domestic vio
 
A relative of mine is being railroaded on some trumped-up domestic violence charges. I believe it is all false. Yeah, he has an attorney.

Reading up, I see that a misdemeanor conviction of this, results in loss of gun ownership rights for 10 years.

Wow, that's an insane penalty. An entire decade.

Anyway, the relative owns around 20 firearms, bought at various times between 1995 and 2016.

His case won't fully play out for several months. I was looking to see if I could advise him, on how to be proactive re the guns.

For example, couldn't he simply drive all his guns out of state, and go store them in AZ? Would that protect the guns from the courts in CA, and if not, why not?

Another question: if a person in CA loses their gun rights for 10 years, can't they just move to another state and start buying guns there?

fiddletown 09-11-2018 11:32 AM

While under California law a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction is a ten year disqualification, under federal law it’s a lifetime prohibition against possessing a gun or ammunition.

dustoff31 09-11-2018 12:20 PM

What fiddletown said.

If he gets convicted of DV, he's done with regard to firearms.

Skip_Dog 09-11-2018 1:07 PM

If he is NOT convicted and wants to store his guns out of state for the trial, he can not bring back any Ca banned AW or any legally owned 11+ mags.
I suggest asking his attorney. He is paying that guy for legal advice.

Best of luck to him if he is innocent.

G-forceJunkie 09-11-2018 11:20 PM

If he is convicted of any DV, he is banned from firearms for the rest of his life. I hope his lawyer understands this. In fact, i would hire a firearms lawyer to educate the family law lawyer. If you friend likes guns, he needs to fight this with every penny he has to win it or get the charges dropped.

cockedandglocked 09-12-2018 11:19 AM

If he's really innocent and there isn't any evidence besides "he said she said" (no injuries, no other witnesses, etc), his lawyer should pretty easily be able to either negotiate a plea bargain down to a lesser charge or get it dropped completely.

EMP3 09-13-2018 8:17 AM

And Americans think they're a free people. They're a ruled people, and "law" is the weapon that's used to rule them.

Never confuse law with justice.

What's sad is Americans are duped in to militating against themselves.

Domestic violence is a con. It has created an illegitimate industry. It's purpose is to steal money from "defendants".

Penalties are back door gun control.

Family law is an oxymoron. There is no justice in family law. It's a pettifogger's paradise of last resort. Only pettifoggers who can't pull off gigs doing legit legal work hustle in the diabolical system of destroying families. Most family law pettifoggers are sociopaths. With few exceptions, pettifoggers of non-accredited law schools and bottom tier ABA law schools prevaricate in marsupial menageries where perjury and subornation of perjury are more common than outhouse rats in the Beltway swamp. The most inept judges are assigned to family law. Family law is a confluence of ineptitude and legal malfeasance resulting in injustice.

This "judge" was the direct cause of the murder of a child. He was a principal in the child's murder. He should be in Pelican Bay. Yet liars of the veil of black (judicial robes) not only defended him, they endorsed him for reelection: https://angelzfury.blogspot.com/2010...r-of-baby.html Judges will lie to protect each other.

Family law decisions are directly responsible for a high rate of suicide of fathers who were victims of morons cloaked in shear black nylon.

Family law must be made an administrative process without pettifogger intervention. It would cause tens of thousands of otherwise inept pettifoggers to take jobs at Walmart greeters and as burger flippers. That's their authentic highest and best use.

What type of person would want to work in the diabolical system of family destruction? Who could rationalize denying a person of his Second Amendment rights over a illegitimate accusation of domestic violence, the definition of which expands yearly.

Americans screwed up by allowing government within the sanctity of families. Courts do not mete out justice. They mete out agendas and rationalized bad behavior.

Denial of Second Amendment rights as a consequence of familial discord is a horrible injustice. Yet Americans put up with it.

According to Thomas Jefferson, our government has become illegitimate a century ago. We are not governed. We are ruled. The list of those who will be denied Second Amendment rights will grow larger. Those on it should be everyone who swindles within family law and anything tangential to it. Since one has to be a sociopath to work in such an injustice, they must be denied Second Amendment rights because they're a proved danger to others, especially children.

EMP3 09-13-2018 8:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie (Post 22103935)
If he is convicted of any DV, he is banned from firearms for the rest of his life. I hope his lawyer understands this. In fact, i would hire a firearms lawyer to educate the family law lawyer. If you friend likes guns, he needs to fight this with every penny he has to win it or get the charges dropped.


What exactly is a firearms lawyer?

G-forceJunkie 09-13-2018 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMP3 (Post 22108252)
What exactly is a firearms lawyer?



One that specializes in the complexities of state and federal firearms laws. “General purpose” or “family law” lawyers probably don’t have the experience negotiating the land mine of gun laws that can get a person prohibited for life. The typical story I have seen over and over is a guy that 20 years ago took a plea deal down to a misdemeanor dv to avoid jail time that his divorce lawyer said was a good deal and not worth fighting, not realizing he is now prohibited from ever touching a gun for the rest of his life.

ajb78 09-14-2018 5:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockedandglocked (Post 22105263)
If he's really innocent and there isn't any evidence besides "he said she said" (no injuries, no other witnesses, etc), his lawyer should pretty easily be able to either negotiate a plea bargain down to a lesser charge or get it dropped completely.

Good luck with that even, as they'll only see and focus on the DV arrest even if it's plead down to something lesser.

EMP3 09-14-2018 1:10 PM

Hi G-ForceJunkie,

What would be the benefit of hiring a "gun rights attorney" rather than a criminal defense attorney?

Were an attorney charged with a crime in which a gun were an instrumentality, would he hire a "gun rights attorney" or a criminal defense attorney?

SVT-40 09-14-2018 2:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertkjjj (Post 22101291)
A relative of mine is being railroaded on some trumped-up domestic violence charges. I believe it is all false. Yeah, he has an attorney.

Reading up, I see that a misdemeanor conviction of this, results in loss of gun ownership rights for 10 years.

Wow, that's an insane penalty. An entire decade.

Anyway, the relative owns around 20 firearms, bought at various times between 1995 and 2016.

His case won't fully play out for several months. I was looking to see if I could advise him, on how to be proactive re the guns.

For example, couldn't he simply drive all his guns out of state, and go store them in AZ? Would that protect the guns from the courts in CA, and if not, why not?

Another question: if a person in CA loses their gun rights for 10 years, can't they just move to another state and start buying guns there?

If your relative has been arrested and charged with domestic violence his firearms could have already been confiscated, and or they could be confiscated at any time. California mandates firearm seizures because of domestic violence charges.

Regarding charges being "trumped up".

There had to have been a triggering event between him and his spouse. During this event his spouse would have had to make the domestic violence claim to the police.

If there was an arrest for domestic violence there could also be a DV restraining order in place...

This DVRO would make possession of firearms a crime...

Your relative should at his earliest convenience transfer ALL of his firearms to a trusted friend or relative...

hunterb 09-14-2018 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMP3 (Post 22108240)
And Americans think they're a free people. They're a ruled people, and "law" is the weapon that's used to rule them.

Never confuse law with justice.

What's sad is Americans are duped in to militating against themselves.

Domestic violence is a con. It has created an illegitimate industry. It's purpose is to steal money from "defendants".

Penalties are back door gun control.

Family law is an oxymoron. There is no justice in family law. It's a pettifogger's paradise of last resort. Only pettifoggers who can't pull off gigs doing legit legal work hustle in the diabolical system of destroying families. Most family law pettifoggers are sociopaths. With few exceptions, pettifoggers of non-accredited law schools and bottom tier ABA law schools prevaricate in marsupial menageries where perjury and subornation of perjury are more common than outhouse rats in the Beltway swamp. The most inept judges are assigned to family law. Family law is a confluence of ineptitude and legal malfeasance resulting in injustice.

This "judge" was the direct cause of the murder of a child. He was a principal in the child's murder. He should be in Pelican Bay. Yet liars of the veil of black (judicial robes) not only defended him, they endorsed him for reelection: https://angelzfury.blogspot.com/2010...r-of-baby.html Judges will lie to protect each other.

Family law decisions are directly responsible for a high rate of suicide of fathers who were victims of morons cloaked in shear black nylon.

Family law must be made an administrative process without pettifogger intervention. It would cause tens of thousands of otherwise inept pettifoggers to take jobs at Walmart greeters and as burger flippers. That's their authentic highest and best use.

What type of person would want to work in the diabolical system of family destruction? Who could rationalize denying a person of his Second Amendment rights over a illegitimate accusation of domestic violence, the definition of which expands yearly.

Americans screwed up by allowing government within the sanctity of families. Courts do not mete out justice. They mete out agendas and rationalized bad behavior.

Denial of Second Amendment rights as a consequence of familial discord is a horrible injustice. Yet Americans put up with it.

According to Thomas Jefferson, our government has become illegitimate a century ago. We are not governed. We are ruled. The list of those who will be denied Second Amendment rights will grow larger. Those on it should be everyone who swindles within family law and anything tangential to it. Since one has to be a sociopath to work in such an injustice, they must be denied Second Amendment rights because they're a proved danger to others, especially children.

Gotta agree with this for the most part...

A former college roommate of mine is now a Divorce Lawyer in Central Cal. He was a pathological liar, sociopath, spoiled rich kid, and complete piece of filth.

Not all Attorney's in that area of law are scumbags, but it does tend to attract that type of morally bankrupt personality. (Though there are all the men's rights' advocates that usually do it for the opposite reason).

Win231 09-14-2018 3:24 PM

Luckily, my divorce was 30 years ago before DV/firearms. During our divorce, my ex wife accused me of "Picking her up & throwing her down on the floor," (all 200 lbs of her). She & her brother also said I threatened to shoot both of them. I think if that happened today, I'd be a former gun owner.

A couple of years ago, I abruptly broke it off with a woman I was dating. During a discussion where I disagreed with her about something, she said, "I frighten her." Instant bye-bye. Sooner or later, when her hormones are out of wack again, it will be, "He shoved me...he hit me..."

A friend of mine who was married for 5 years & had a 3-year-old son had an argument with his wife. She called police & said he shoved her. When police arrived, she showed them a bruise she got the night before when she slipped & fell in the kitchen. He was arrested, his 7 guns confiscated & he spent 5 days in jail. During their divorce, she admitted he never touched her. He never got his guns back & they never prosecuted his wife for the false complaint (as they never do).

Pardini 09-16-2018 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVT-40 (Post 22113402)
If your relative has been arrested and charged with domestic violence his firearms could have already been confiscated, and or they could be confiscated at any time. California mandates firearm seizures because of domestic violence charges.

Regarding charges being "trumped up".

There had to have been a triggering event between him and his spouse. During this event his spouse would have had to make the domestic violence claim to the police.

If there was an arrest for domestic violence there could also be a DV restraining order in place...

This DVRO would make possession of firearms a crime...

Your relative should at his earliest convenience transfer ALL of his firearms to a trusted friend or relative...

There doesn't have to be an event, just a claim. Women know this tactic or are coached in it by their lawyers.

Ford8N 09-16-2018 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardini (Post 22118889)
There doesn't have to be an event, just a claim. Women know this tactic or are coached in it by their lawyers.

^^^^^^^

This is why you should never get married, especially in California.

Marriage is just a business contract and tax deduction according to state law. That is all.

ajb78 09-16-2018 8:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 22118991)
^^^^^^^

This is why you should never get married, especially in California.

Marriage is just a business contract and tax deduction according to state law. That is all.

Not getting married in CA won't save you much, CA has a very broad range of relationship types that are defined as domestic.
Quote:

Originally Posted by PC243(e)(1)
[snip]against a spouse, a person with whom the defendant is cohabiting, a person who is the parent of the defendant’s child, former spouse, fiancé, or fiancée, or a person with whom the defendant currently has, or has previously had, a dating or engagement relationship,[snip]


Ford8N 09-16-2018 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajb78 (Post 22119376)
Not getting married in CA won't save you much, CA has a very broad range of relationship types that are defined as domestic.

Wow. Then the saying is, as it applies to California, women got men by the balls. Not good.

ajb78 09-16-2018 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 22119453)
Wow. Then the saying is, as it applies to California, women got men by the balls. Not good.

Not just women, notice it also includes "cohabitating", so your male roommate gets to participate as well.


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