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Don't let staunch conventional thinkers talk you into a viewpoint that Mauser style screw in barrel/actions are superior. They might have some point but just like others in this thread they are assuming you have a great machinist who produces perfect work. They reality is that, just because it is "custom" does not mean it is inherently more accurate or better. Just as with different manufacturers, there is a wide range of quality.
For instance, I had a local smith in the bay area (who has since retired) thread my barrels and do some basic truing work. The results where just ok, and when I did dial gauge the work it would fall in the .0007" range- not stellar. After moving to a Stiller short action years later I was starting to do my own work. On an old Clausing at the shop I was able to duplicate .0005" consistently, and using a floating reamer was able to get very nice results. But it was not as good as the best, not nearly, and it took insane amounts of time (me being a non-professional). Some builders claim .0001" and I can believe it with the right lathe (I mean $$$ lathe, not some Grizzly). As I get older, I like the idea of just letting the barrel manufacturer set tolerances and some adjustable feature in the design to allow for the take-up. Pre-threaded barrels are the cheaper "B" barrels but that is as much a cultural issue as anything else. The logic of the manufacturers is that a smith will turn it custom so why would anyone looking for a super accurate setup buy pre-threaded? It does not have to be this way. Another way to put it is that a "nut" gun does not have to be a "cheap" option that manufacturers use to save money. It could be a design feature that allows people to avoid being tethered to a lathe. Another even better solution is to integrate the lugs into the barrel and not even have a receiver, but this takes lots of sophistication and investment in hammer forging, QC, etc. That seems to be beyond the American way of thinking at the moment. |
If someone really doesn't want to use the barrel nut, why not cut a blank like you normally would for a 700 and skip the barrel nut?
Assuming the barrel is thick enough, I'm sure a smith can thread the outside of the barrel for the other nut that the rail attaches to. |
Ruger Precision Rifle
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How do you come up with $3K for this? Maybe you're saying the total with the rifle, reloading gear and scope? Kind of confusing the way it is written. If you're trying to contrast this with custom build and it is a new caliber, wouldn't the ammo, reloading gear, glass, bipod and everything but the finished rifle be the same (or be left out) for the comparison? Small detail, but there is a bipod stud with the RPR so a $100 Harris works well but that is also a wash platform to platform. On the custom, you'd have all the components (the stock/chassis would have to have adjustable cheekpiece and LOP, 3 QD sling cups, a bipod stud and be a folder) and add gunsmithing for assembly, threading for the brake, and probably Cerakoting. What you're calling penny pinching or a few bucks seems like a delta (yes that term fits here too) of about $2K in favor of the $1K RPR? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Sent from my JayPad...like you care. |
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In reality, only the cheaper guns use a barrel nut. Savage is a cheaper gun, regardless of the price of any specific model you might go dig up. |
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muzzle device bipod magazines adapters scope mounts sling transportation vessel (case/bag) miscellaneous tools like wrenches your reloading gear, which may require a new press shell holders trimmer handprimer dies bushings brass powder projectiles primers shooting mat cleaning supplies targets Kestrel chronograph spotting scope range finder tripod gas money, lots of fuel as you need to drive far to shoot, usually and potentially hundreds of other miscellaneous accessories. Obviously you aren't getting all your equipment at once, but each time you purchase a different basic rifle, you will generally add more gear and equipment. Like I said, when I add a new precision cartridge, I figure it'll cost $1k to get it started up with dies and components, and it'll be more if you use a large cartridge. If it's not a new caliber, you can save a hundred bucks on bushing and you might be able to make dual use dies. A scope for a precision rifle is going to be $1k if you are on a tight budget. You aren't going to want some made in China crap. The scope generally double the cost of a rifle. So, when I say $3k with an RPR, it's being VERY frugal. |
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That is an impressive list, but that doesn't address what I posted and it seems like you are comparing apples to oranges. I have most of that stuff from previous rigs and other listed items would, as I stated, need to be added no matter what platform you are buying. It just seems like you are, once again, dogging this rifle by making an unbalanced comparison. I'm saying, once again, that this is a good alternative to enter the discipline of tactical shooting or add a new caliber to the stable without having to spend $3K on a custom built rifle (rifle only!) that is truly comparable. Sent from my JayPad...like you care. |
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Are you saying there are "short action" and "long action" scopes ? . . . . . over 1/8" inch difference in length ? What should I get for my Yugo 24/47 ?? |
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JMP, back in post 612, I wrote a short review of my experience shooting a brand new, out of the box RPR. The Rifle belongs to a friend, and it was accoutered with a Bushnell optic on some sort of uni-mount, and a Harris bipod. The ammo was factory. The performance was exceptional in my opinion for the setup. Have you even handled one yet? |
The Ruger is the perfect rifle for the entry level precision shooter, it is priced correct. I have seen some of the bug holes and clovers this rifle is getting out of capable hands and trained seasoned precision shooters. If you were to put the target groupings I have seen against target groupings from other rigs that are twice the price you would be hard pressed to tell me what rifle shot which grouping. Ruger has put out a WINNER! ...period!!! It's entry into the market is going to cause other manufactures to take notice and answer with their version of a budget precision rifle. ...everybody wins! It will be very interesting when the Ruger RPR starts to win precision matches and it will sooner than later.
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I'm hoping for the best. There are several good points made here though. I've spent close to $1100 on a 'budget" scope (still need rings) about $150 on factory Hornady 140s and close to $400 on components and dies. I probably won't even get my hands on the rifle until September or beyond. I really don't see an end to it....just yet anyway. ;)
I'm really looking forward to a trip out to Lytle Creek or Angeles |
Does anyone have any optic recommendations for this rifle in 6.5 Creed (something that could meet in middle for medium range hunting to long range precision shooting)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk |
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You need to pick a side. Since this is a target rifle, get a target scope. A good starter target scope is the Bushnell DMR with G2 reticle. Bushnell part number is ET35215G |
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What's your budget? |
You're going to get a million opinions. You could call Jay at sportoptic.com and ask him. He's Calguns friendly just tell him your price range and intended uses. I bought a Burris XTR II at 5-25 but that might not be good for your needs
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk |
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The point is that for those new to "precision" shooting should just understand that the rifle is just a small part of the equation. I only bring it up because folks seem to say "Hey, a precision rifle for under $1k!!!!" I just do not want people to run out and buy it without realizing that if they want to shoot it regularly, there is a lot of maintenance costs and other gear they are going to acquire. When I got my 6.5CD I bought the Redding Comp dies and didn't have 6.5mm bushings. So, the die set is now listed at $333. That's about $400 to $450 for the die set plus bushings. I remember that set because it stuck out in my mind as being a bit more pricey than other similar sized Redding Comp sets. I may have been able to fandangle a different short action set, but I didn't want to risk it because the case is shorter and has a unique shoulder angle. Yes, you can get buy at first with a RCBS set for $40, but in the end, I already know that I'll end up wanting a better die set. I stick with Redding Comp or custom for my die sets simply because all the cheaper ones have always broken or not been what I want. Then, Midway has 50 piece sets of Hornady 6.5 CD brass in stock for 37.99. You'll probably want 200 pieces to start, so that's another $150. 8lbs of H4350 is $175 if you are lucky enough to find it. Then, 1000 projectiles are $300-400. Now, if you don't think that is a legitimate concern, then, yes, you can shoot factory ammo. It is $1.32/round. Taking that course, you will spend $4,000 on your first barrel so that's hardly cheap. I don't want to be the Grinch that stole Christmas or try to be some type of ammo snob, it's just a realistic fact that I want to raise for people that plan on shooting their rifles. I've seen a lot of people that run out and get a rifle then they end up side-lined and not actually shooting because they are perpetually limited by the miscellaneous costs for things like feeding the rifle or having a proper optic up front. The fact is, that most people go out and get nice "precision" rifles then they don't even shoot them. Thus, if you simply want to own a nice rifle then it's fine to budget for just the $1000. If you want to shoot your nice rifle, it's actually the maintenance costs that are higher. Yes, I am critical of some shooters because I think their largest limitation is failure to get out and shoot. I hope that clarifies it and since it isn't your first nice rifle, I am sure you are aware of the actual cost to run. My post is more for people that may not be aware of all the costs that they will incur. 3x the cost of the rifle is just my rule of thumb, based on experience of what you will actually end up spending. It's the same thing if someone say, "wow, look at the great deal on this rifle for $4k." I tell them to figure 3x more to buy an optic, ammo, and other miscellaneous expenses. Why is it not a fixed cost? To give you an example, are you familiar with the Sako TRGs? Those are great rifles, IMO. If you want a magazine for one, it is $225. If you want a muzzle brake, you will be buying their proprietary metrically threaded brake, etc. etc. Quote:
For what I consider "precision" shooting, you will be best off with a short action cartridge (not necessarily the receiver). Then for ELR shooting, you will be best of with a long/unlimited action cartridge. That's just my personal preference, and you won't see me showing up with a short action to shoot 2k. As for your Yugo 24/47, I do not have one, but I'd probably use iron sights rather than a scope. |
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Yes, I had a TRG-42 in .338 LM. That, btw, is a factory trigger that is as good or better than the aftermarket units. It's good that you brought this up as it highlights again the value built into the RPR: 1) many of the components won't "need" to be upgraded and 2) if they do, it's not just expensive proprietary components to choose from. I agree that you will want those other related items so isn't it great that a shooter can now choose to save $2K on the entry expenditure and that covers much of what you listed? If they want a better rifle later, they can probably sell the RPR at a smaller loss than if they started with a custom or just keep it or pass it on to a shooter in the family. My son will think he has died and gone to heaven if I replace the RPR with a GAP and he gets this sweet rig. It just seems like you are way too far on the cautionary end of the spectrum so you come across as negative (like showing all the out of stock links and over estimating additional costs and adding in gas...really?). You know...like one of those folks who, when given a bar of gold would focus on the chore of having to carry that heavy thing all the way to their safe deposit box. [emoji23][emoji23] We all know that the cost to shoot goes well beyond the cost of the firearm itself. This is true for every firearm so there is no value whatsoever in pointing it out and using it as some kind of negative towards one particular firearm. Sent from my JayPad...like you care. |
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I've had mine since Thursday. 1) I won't need to upgrade the trigger. I won't need to upgrade the stock. I won't need to upgrade the fore-end. But that is just me. I said need above because it will be a want, not a need. 2) I was contrasting with JMPs example of TRG. The upgrades for the RPR are mostly AR parts and therefore readily available and competitively priced. For a stock, for example, you could get a LuthAR for $140 or a Magpul PRS for $220. Many thread on brakes are available. Many different grips are available. If you want a TRG folder, it is $3500.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
What if I just want one because it is a better value than a Rem 700? That's pretty much why I ordered one. I don't have the time now to attend competitions and honestly never really thought about it.
I was going to get a Rem 700 AAC SD til I realized I would need to spend another $500 for a decent adjustable stock and another $200 for a DBM. Could also go with the Xray chassis for $600. Either way it is going to be a $1200-1300 just to go the Remington route. Why not just fork over $1k and be done with it? Not everyone is going to be attending matches just because they have an interest in this gun. |
Jaytil, I agree with what you said.
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For TRG components you generally need to go through Brownells. The factory trigger is $450, which is on par with the price of any high-end trigger. It cannot be replaced as it is the more unique design of any trigger in that the trigger assembly actually serves as part of the rifle (furnishes the magazine catch). The trigger was designed in this shoe by the Finns to protect the internals from all the elements that can cause a trigger to fail. It's got the most adjustability of any trigger I am aware of (in all directions), and it is one of the few triggers that I personally like. A fanboy trigger like Jewell will fail many times over before a TRG trigger fails. What would be nice, is if we could get the well-designed European triggers into the US platforms. Actually, the high end US pattern triggers are now being made by smaller shops in Austria and Italy (BnA or FF). Personally, I am using Huber 2-stages in US platforms. One of the big turnoffs for US patterned rifles for a long time was the lack of a trigger. Lucky for the RPR platform, some newer designs have surfaced in recent years that would allow for a really nice replacement if someone takes it on. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...161-58156.aspx Quote:
Personally, I rate the break of the trigger higher than the smoothness of the action so long as the action has reliable function. |
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On the TRG trigger, I was comparing it to the aftermarket triggers I've used on other platforms like the Jewell. If there is no need, then no trigger makers are going to make one. I found Sako parts in several places including EuroOptic and eBay so Brownells is not the only choice. So the RPR trigger is no good? What are you basing that on? Sent from my JayPad...like you care. |
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Jaytil, to be honest, I'd probably get an RPR myself just for kicks except the only reason is that I simply don't need another short action rifle, and it would end up at the back of a closet.
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It feels completely different than the American. Maybe wait until you've felt it.
I'm not negating, just disagreeing. I think it may be because you make statements that are too broad, authoritative and usually negative. Then when asked to clarify it is just your preference. Ok. If you are now saying that scope mounts, brakes, magazines and tripods that I saw for sale don't count, so be it but they are "components" (your word) to me and are available commercially on websites including eBay, GunBroker and EuroOptic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Makes sense. I knew I would shoot it so I'll give it a try. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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I'll go sit in the corner with LynnJr now. |
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Because it's the "same design" as a $400 hunting rifle it's the same as on the RPR? By that logic an old 700 trigger lying on my bench off a 1980's beater rifle is the same as a $300 match rig. Same design, right?
Anyway, the trigger is the most ridiculously over-valued part of any "precision" rifle. It's all personal preference. There is no objectivity at all. |
Hey guys, I've shot one and its good to go. End of story. Time to stop pontificating about the fantasy shortcomings of a platform that works as advertised.
Instead of talking at it, try asking about it. |
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I've read nothing that would dissuade me from getting the RPR (my self control is the only thing I'm struggling with :o) |
Bridgeport
Tell us about your groups and your ammo |
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However, your statement is categorically false, which makes me feel somewhat better. |
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Plus $100 more for an oversized bolt knob installed. Plus $40 for a cheek rest that won't be as modular. Plus $150 for a new trigger unless you want to keep gambling that Remington finally made theirs safe.. |
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Sell stock/trigger -$(50) KRG Xray/XLR Element Chassis-$600 Scope base-$75 There you have a rifle that you can replace parts on and grow with for roughly the same price. The Ruger is a nice rifle and will be fine for most people who buy it, but it most likely isn't the rifle for those who think they are getting into precision shooting. You build a hot rod on a small block Chevy, not a Studebaker 289. |
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One promising sign of the RPR already is that it's making the Orthodox people a little angry/frightened. I have built a half dozen 700's and a few savages in the last 15 years and I never spent less than $2000 on an individual rifle, usually without half the RPR features. I double dog dare you to build me a rifle on paper that can match Turner's price. |
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