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-   -   200$ member fee increase (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1791081)

bubbaskyjacker 04-22-2022 4:04 PM

200$ member fee increase
 
As we stated in the recent newsletter, For well more than a year USI has been losing cash at the rate of about $1,000 per day and will be bankrupt in about a year if nothing is done to turn the organization around. Diablo has taken an aggressive stand to get USI to address the problems and to establish an audit and strategic planning committee to develop ways to provide for the long term survival of USI.
It is already apparent that changes are necessary on both the revenue (pricing, utilization, etc.) side as well as the cost (payroll etc.) side of USI. As a starting point, USI has announced the below increases.


EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY - USI has announced the following increases:

Shotgun Fees:
$7.00 "Member" Discount
$12.00 "Non-Member"

Public Rifle/Pistol Fees:
$12.00 "Member" Discount
25.00 "Non-Member"

EFFECTIVE May1, 2022 USI is instituting a new "shooting card" in order to take advantage of club member discounts. The INITIAL price for this card is currently set at $200 per year.

This means that we will all need to have both a club membership and a USI shooting card to get the member rates on the range. Club members that do not buy the USI card will be charged the "non-member" rates. There are many other details for USI to work out as well in the coming weeks.
For questions and answers please watch for another email blast from the Board on where you can express comments and opinions

DocSkinner 04-22-2022 5:14 PM

Funny how the other 4 clubs are primarily shotgunners, and how amazingly their day fees are so low.

and for those that don't know, all the clubs get equal vote in managing, REGARDLESS of how much larger the club may be. SO you have thousands of members? 1 vote. 200 members? 1 vote...

What would help would be a breakdown of where the money is CURRENTLY going to see if there is fat to trim before asking for more gravy to cover it with.

macbolan 04-22-2022 5:36 PM

Families share the Shoot card $200.00 fee?
 
Having a daughter who I shoot with regulary I'm wondering if my having the $200.00 shoot card will allow me and my daughter to get the discounted range fees or do we both need to pay $200.00?

Thanks

MuayThaiJJ 04-22-2022 5:37 PM

This doesn't sound like an equitable solution, and if they go through with this they will lose a LOT of customers...

Who do we speak or write to in order to combat this?

mjsweims 04-22-2022 5:51 PM

I'm a member of Diablo. This will increase my yearly expense from $25 to $225 an 800% increase.
I only shoot trap now (3 rounds per week, most weeks) and the new rate is certainly not acceptable to me. The trap ranges are inferior to Martinez and Livermore. Even if I purchase a USI membership my shooting cost will be higher than shooting as a non-member at Livermore.

peregrine312 04-22-2022 5:53 PM

What was the point of becoming a member if getting reduced range fees became waived in lieu of compounding a $200 fee on top of it? Sounds like all members got scammed since we weren’t notified of this mid-year change before signing up. A lawsuit seems in order, honestly.

slamfire 04-22-2022 5:57 PM

Member since 07 can't shoot action pistol other than steel challenge which I don't shoot anyway. An occasional round of trap which is already overpriced is not worth the proposed fee increase to me so I'll be letting my membership expire. See you at Richmond.

cheers

reagan8 04-22-2022 6:09 PM

They are going to lose even more money with that strategy. On top of not updating their website to let people know that masks are no longer required (which has kept me away), the $200 fee would actually make it MORE expensive for many of us.

With the cost of ammunition being so high these days, I would only be shooting 1x per month. (Honestly, even when ammo was relatively inexpensive, I probably only averaged 1x per month)

12 trips * $25 = $300; (12 * $12) + 200 = $344

Yep, not going to happen.

MuayThaiJJ 04-22-2022 6:17 PM

I foresee 75% loss of customers. Maybe 1/4 customers would actually buy into this...

Crf450rr 04-22-2022 6:22 PM

Is this fee per person or per family?

Crf450rr 04-22-2022 6:24 PM

This sounds more like mismanagement

LateForDinner 04-22-2022 6:24 PM

OK, lets take a look at the business side and leave the attitudes out. If we cannot agree on the good of the range and clubs, an entity divided against itself will fail.I am all for supporting USI but at the rates proposed we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

mjsweims 04-22-2022 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbuhlman (Post 26842001)
OK, lets take a look at the business side and leave the attitudes out. If we cannot agree on the good of the range and clubs, an entity divided against itself will fail.I am all for supporting USI but at the rates proposed we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

Agreed.
The rates proposed are a very sudden huge increase and will likely drive off shooters. Has this been considered.
Has a smaller increase been considered, that will reduce the cash hemorrhage, and then gradually increase it if necessary. Presumably some of the reduced income is due to the reduced amount of ammo and reloading products.
USI has been losing about $1,000+/day. This cannot be a sudden occurence. Why has it not been addressed before - maybe the board make-up should be changed?
Another issue is the overly long downtime in the rifle and pistol ranges. What caused this and how has that been addressed?
Are efforts being made to attract shooting events? On the trap side other clubs have at least one event per month that brings in many shooters.

fredieusa 04-22-2022 7:55 PM

I'll be letting my membership expire with DAP because they (USI) are making things overly complicated. I have shot 1 steel challenge match there, that's it, 1 trip in the last 3 years. Was paying my membership just to support a local range..

Shotgunners need to get a life. In Richmond, we keep them under control. Everywhere else, there are generally a pain in the neck.

bpimwheel 04-22-2022 8:01 PM

Maybe a different thought for USI would be to reduce the amount spent (overhead cost, who needs 6 ROs all the time) instead of trying to get more income. There has to be ways to trim the pork off of this pig. I'm sure most members would be happier with that approach.
Spending what you don't have is a sure sign of monetary mismanagement.
Just something to think about.
Member of Diablo R&G, Walnut Creek R&G, Bay Point R&G since 2000

fawndog 04-22-2022 8:07 PM

What business loses $1000 a day, and for years, and just now let's members know ?
How ?

macbolan 04-22-2022 8:09 PM

Can USI Operate as a Non-Profit entity?
 
I'm not sure of the mechanics or business/legal feasibility of this but could USI be converted to a Non-Profit operation? That way I think it could operate at a loss easier and by soliciting Tax Deductible donations, the income could possibly be increased. The $200.00 shoot card could become a tax deduction.

Just trying to throw out possible solutions.

macbolan 04-22-2022 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjsweims (Post 26842110)
Are efforts being made to attract shooting events? On the trap side other clubs have at least one event per month that brings in many shooters.

Shooting Events as well as other events. Livermore has a Steak Dinner member event that they sell tickets for (at least they did years ago). Does USI do anything like this? I know they don't have fancy food prep/outdoor BBQs but these things could farmed out to Food Truck guys and possibly still drum up interest in the clubs and maybe even make a few bucks.

Operating the same ole same ole just is not working, there needs to be some outside the box thinking here to get the USI facility back on its feet. It sure would be a shame if this place went away.

Russian Bot 04-22-2022 8:24 PM

When I lived up there I used to go to that Jack in The Box here and there. Didn't even know the range was there. Had always been told there were no ranges near Bay Point.
The letters people are posting read like there's a real estate deal in the works.

MuayThaiJJ 04-22-2022 8:24 PM

What they COULD to do is double the membership fee and renewal fee and charge a couple more dollars to shoot for members and guests. Problem solved. $25 is too cheap to be a member. Livermore charges $150 just to renew.

Alexus 04-22-2022 8:28 PM

What was the rifle/pistol "member" fee before? I remember it was $20 for the non-member 2 years ago.

MuayThaiJJ 04-22-2022 8:29 PM

How about this?

Shotgun Fees:
$15.00 "Member" Discount
$25.00 "Non-Member"

Public Rifle/Pistol Fees:
$15.00 "Member" Discount
$25.00 "Non-Member"

EFFECTIVE May 1, 2022
CLUB Membership $75/yr (new memberships)
$50/yr (renewals)

Everyone chip in...it takes a village

macbolan 04-22-2022 8:31 PM

20 bucks for non member sounds about right so that is not the increase folks are up in arms about, its the 200 buck shoot card fee that is causing the ire.

However if Livermore charges 150 bucks per year, and USI charges 25, yeah just bump up the annual fee and charge a smaller shoot card fee.

TWoods450 04-22-2022 8:33 PM

I fully expected fees to go up after the range had to be shut down and rebuilt, the pandemic took a toll as well that had to be made up someplace. It's understandable to increase fees but this solution is ridiculous. For most shooters, it just doesn't make sense to pay for the discount card, to the point that a lot of folks are planning to just go elsewhere to shoot going forward. From the feedback I've seen from friends and others, it seems like this is going to hurt the range more than it's going to help.

macbolan 04-22-2022 8:34 PM

Are the Shotgun fees "per round", like 7.50 per token for the shotgun traps? 25.00 bucks for 25 shots does seem like a bit much.

If the same thing were done for the centerfire range you would be paying 100 bucks for your 100 rounds shot at the Paper.

I can see why the shotgun fees look lower because its per round of trap and many shotgun folks purchase several rounds at a time.

Crf450rr 04-22-2022 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuayThaiJJ (Post 26842283)
How about this?

Shotgun Fees:
$15.00 "Member" Discount
$25.00 "Non-Member"

Public Rifle/Pistol Fees:
$15.00 "Member" Discount
$25.00 "Non-Member"

EFFECTIVE May 1, 2022
Diablo Membership $75/yr (new memberships)
$50/yr (renewals)

Everyone chip in...it takes a village

This is what I was thinking ��

MuayThaiJJ 04-22-2022 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crf450rr (Post 26842295)
This is what I was thinking ��

:cheers2:

bpimwheel 04-22-2022 8:37 PM

As I understand the situation presently USI is loosing $35,000 per month.
At this rate the real possibility exist that this range (USI) will become insolvent ( bankrupt) soon and will have to shut down. When that happens that will leave only Livermore, Richmond, San Leandro, Martinez & Dublin indoor ranges to shoot shotgun, rifle & pistol at.

macbolan 04-22-2022 8:38 PM

If this place closes then you may end up driving longer distances, perhaps an hour or more, to get to a similar outdoor facility (I won't shoot indoor at all anymore). Then you are going to be paying more gas and bridge tolls. There has to be some middle ground that people can deal with rather than just flipping the bird and giving up and going someplace else. USI can be a great facility that is close to many of us. Losing it helps nobody.

Gowking 04-22-2022 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fawndog (Post 26842234)
What business loses $1000 a day, and for years, and just now let's members know ?
How ?

To the best of my knowledge prior to the closing back in 2015 USI had a large surplus. In the next 3-1/2 years or so all the infighting between the 5 clubs concerning the R&P rebuild lead to squandering most of what was in the coffers on failed site designs and making up for the income shortfall since the shotgun range can't keep the lights on by itself.

Gowking 04-22-2022 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuayThaiJJ (Post 26842283)
How about this?

Shotgun Fees:
$15.00 "Member" Discount
$25.00 "Non-Member"

Public Rifle/Pistol Fees:
$15.00 "Member" Discount
$25.00 "Non-Member"

EFFECTIVE May 1, 2022
Diablo Membership $75/yr (new memberships)
$50/yr (renewals)

Everyone chip in...it takes a village

The shotgun fees are per round not per visit like the R&P range is. I suppose they could make it a base per visit fee plus a per round fee.

bpimwheel 04-22-2022 9:02 PM

Don't confuse the $200 "FEE" USI is charging. That is different from the club membership fees. They are not the same thing. USI is separate from the 5 member clubs (Diablo, Walnut Creek, Concord, Bay Point & Brentwood) which charge only $25 per year respectively for membership.
USI exist to run the range for the 5 clubs that own all the assets of the range.
Because USI is spending more money than they have income for, as I see it this is the reason it is loosing $35000 per month.
In the end you cannot continue spending money that you don't have. Pretty soon the Bank is gonna want their money and you will have to sell your property to pay them.

XDJYo 04-22-2022 9:16 PM

This is a shame.

A lawsuit against USI doesnít solve anything. SMH.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FNGGlock 04-22-2022 9:31 PM

Hard to say how to break down the numbers without data. How many club member vs non member fees are paid per month/year, etc.

The issue with member vs non member fees implies 16 visits to break even for just the $200 card. That excludes club dues.

How much would non member visits go down if the fee goes up to $30 vs $20. Same with member fees going up some per visit.

How much of club revenue goes to USI?

A high price card is not going to work IMO, unless it comes with benefits like a fast pass check in, etc.

I will pay more per visit and help to keep USI open, but the $200 seems high for the benefit compared to non member pricing.

I donít see a casual shooter/non member shying away if the price is $30 vs $20, driving 10 miles further will cost more than that. BUT not sure how much that impacts revenue???

bpimwheel 04-22-2022 9:58 PM

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY - USI has announced the following increases:

Shotgun Fees:
$7.00 "Member" Discount
$12.00 "Non-Member"

Public Rifle/Pistol Fees:
$12.00 "Member" Discount
25.00 "Non-Member"

EFFECTIVE May1, 2022 USI is instituting a new "shooting card" in order to take advantage of club member discounts. The INITIAL price for this card is currently set at $200 per year.

(There has been talk to raise it to $250 per year)

This means that we will all need to have both a club membership and a USI shooting card to get the member rates on the range. Otherwise we will have to pay the non-member price even if you are a club member. Club members that do not buy the USI card will be charged the "non-member" rates. There are many other details for USI to work out as well in the coming weeks.

corrmica01 04-22-2022 11:29 PM

They have free shooting ranges all over the country. Itís getting ridiculous to live here.

BusBoy 04-22-2022 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbolan (Post 26842240)
I'm not sure of the mechanics or business/legal feasibility of this but could USI be converted to a Non-Profit operation?

USI is a 501c4... Not a 501c3

corrmica01 04-22-2022 11:39 PM

Also, the employees are amazing and incredibly helpful but I have never understood why you need so may of them. I have always assumed that the laws here dictate a specific ratio but having multiple people waiting for someone to use the range is a bad business model. It also states that Diablo has been asking for an audit.. if no audit has happened with such a large organization then they have a much larger issue and maybe a restructuring of USI internal process would be a better first step instead of dumping costs onto the consumers. You are setting yourselves up to loose a LOT of revenueís. You already have one of the highest range prices in the area.

I was planning on coming back once I am done healing stroke a few months ago but it sounds like it has become just another organization raising prices without trying to correct systemic behavior that is still going to be an issue. I went to the range 5x a week some weeks. This is very disappointing.

BusBoy 04-22-2022 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNGGlock (Post 26842398)
Hard to say how to break down the numbers without data. How many club member vs non member fees are paid per month/year, etc.

The issue with member vs non member fees implies 16 visits to break even for just the $200 card. That excludes club dues.

How much would non member visits go down if the fee goes up to $30 vs $20. Same with member fees going up some per visit.

How much of club revenue goes to USI?

A high price card is not going to work IMO, unless it comes with benefits like a fast pass check in, etc.

I will pay more per visit and help to keep USI open, but the $200 seems high for the benefit compared to non member pricing.

I donít see a casual shooter/non member shying away if the price is $30 vs $20, driving 10 miles further will cost more than that. BUT not sure how much that impacts revenue???

Diablo is looking into getting that data. We shall see what that is... I will also look into posting other data that another member has collected. Pretty eye opening.

BusBoy 04-22-2022 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrmica01 (Post 26842556)
Also, the employees are amazing and incredibly helpful but I have never understood why you need so may of them.

Because of some out of whack ratio I think... Regardless management should have known better... people standing around doing nothing is money wasted.

Quote:

have always assumed that the laws here dictate a specific ratio but having multiple people waiting for someone to use the range is a bad business model.
Very correct.

Quote:

It also states that Diablo has been asking for an audit.. if no audit has happened with such a large organization then they have a much larger issue and maybe a restructuring of USI internal process would be a better first step instead of dumping costs onto the consumers.
Good observation... Diablo wanted a committee (audit) spun up but in reality a strategic business planning committee is a better use of time. People coming together to pitch ideas. Problem... USIs current leadership has gotten us to this point and they think that this new "discount fee" is going to solve all problems. It wont come close.

Quote:

I was planning on coming back once I am done healing stroke a few months ago but it sounds like it has become just another organization raising prices without trying to correct systemic behavior that is still going to be an issue. I went to the range 5x a week some weeks. This is very disappointing.
I hope you recover from your stroke... I can identify a little.

USI is asking the board to trust that it has things in control but this problem has been ongoing for MONTHS and MONTHS. They were warned every month that there was a loss... yet did nothing. Now USI is at a point where... "We have no choice" charge more, demand more, attempt to control more. Certain board members have sat back and done nothing. In effect violating their fiduciary responsibility to their members and other clubs. Breach of Fiduciary responsibility is something you are personally liable for and something that many folks in non-profits don't fully comprehend that responsibility.


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