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-   -   USAR testing new Retention Program for soldiers in school and work (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1572912)

Snoopy47 11-25-2019 10:22 AM

USAR testing new Retention Program for soldiers in school and work
 
My Company has been slated for 29 day AT's at NTC for
FY2020
FY2021
FY2022

For March-April

tomk556 11-25-2019 5:58 PM

It's such BS. First have to love the blatant 29 day FU. I took a small detachment to support a rotation in June and three of the soldiers were full-time students. No one could have cared less. Got plenty of "mission first, people always" nonsense, but the best solution any one put out there was for them to talk to their professors "and work something out."

Why the heck do they have you guys going three times in a row?

Please whatever you do, if anyone says any crap about brining soldiers in on RMAs the day before, etc., just lay into them...

Supersapper 11-25-2019 10:15 PM

They won't do the day before RMA. That would be illegal and a fiscal violation. The regs say that if the duties are closely related or substantially the same, the Soldier could argue the orders should be 30 day orders, ergo BAH type 1. It's an IG complaint of the first order.

Whatever you do Snoopy, don't let anyone con you into the different orders for the same 30 days. If you get someone like me in there, I guarantee it's a nightmare you don't want. It's one I gave people because I don't do that easily.

Just wait until the 56 UTA year and 2 x AT per year actually gets traction out of NGB and the Pentagon. It's coming.

tomk556 11-25-2019 10:28 PM

I'll keep that in mind about the orders being substantially the same. Do you know the AR for that? I've literally seen that done on several occasions... Perhaps I'm naive, but if we did move up to 56 MUTAs and 30 days of AT, at least we could get something done other than the bare minimum.

Snoopy47 11-26-2019 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomk556 (Post 23635765)

Why the heck do they have you guys going three times in a row?

I just give up. I think planners are just punching in units they are aware of and calling it done.

Snoopy47 11-26-2019 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomk556 (Post 23636574)
Perhaps I'm naive, but if we did move up to 56 MUTAs and 30 days of AT, at least we could get something done other than the bare minimum.

I think there would just be more stuff they would tack on.

Supersapper 11-26-2019 8:29 PM

^^^^This.

Supersapper 11-26-2019 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomk556 (Post 23636574)
I'll keep that in mind about the orders being substantially the same. Do you know the AR for that? I've literally seen that done on several occasions... Perhaps I'm naive, but if we did move up to 56 MUTAs and 30 days of AT, at least we could get something done other than the bare minimum.

I'll see about that. I had it all in my previous computer. Snoopy's on to something with them consistently giving him near 30 day orders and it's making me curious.

Perhaps he's right that they're just punching in familiar units...but that would fly in the face of those yearly TROS conferences they have. Or is that a thing of the past.

In any event, I read it in a memorandum put out by NGB about it being a fiscal law thing. It was supposedly in one of the finance manuals, but I need to check that.

tomk556 11-26-2019 9:00 PM

Seems like a waste of money to send units into the box again year after year, unless it's going from coin to whatever.

Pretty much everyone I talked to when I went through was getting just shy of 30 days, almost like it was a mantra. I also know that because we rallied at and left out of Los Al, a number of units came in the evening before on RMAs... It's annoying that most everyone who's been in for more than a couple of years knows they're being screwed and just tolerates it as a matter of culture.

Supersapper 11-27-2019 3:44 PM

Especially when...wait for it...

A General Officer called down to an E7 and told him he needed his 29 day orders amended to 30 day orders. "I [the GO] was told to do it by higher." Yes. It happened last year.

Yeah...

IrishJoe3 11-28-2019 11:45 AM

Just got back from the sandbox. It's truly incredible how incompetent higher levels of army leadership are.

I was in awe. That is all.

Snoopy47 11-28-2019 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersapper (Post 23641721)
Especially when...wait for it...

A General Officer called down to an E7 and told him he needed his 29 day orders amended to 30 day orders. "I [the GO] was told to do it by higher." Yes. It happened last year.

Yeah...

I get the impression the TPU's regardless of rank are just getting thrown around by the Active Duty and in general the over all National Defense Policy for the reserves just uses them as any other branch as a plug for what has become a continuous rotational use for reserves to fill billets for missions all over the place.

On the other hand Congress hasn't funded the use of the reserves for anything more than what they were designed for. And the USAR uses soldiers to the limits of federal funding laws. Were it not for these laws there would be more abuse.

Mainly, I see expectations that ON PAPER reserve units are held to the SAME READINESS STANDARD as active duty units, but without any of the time and resources to get the job done.

Insane amount of training days are being thrown at us without regard to any realities of economics, and compelet disregard for who actually pays the bills,
The USAR does not pay the mortgage. Dollars in pockets is more influential than Stars on shoulders.

Push comes to shove, the only thing the USAR is really ready for is to simply avoid having to go through MEPS.

********

I'll mention this again if I already haven't. I'm on my way out. The replacement commander has been chosen, and we just need to clear inventory change of command (a whole other deal).

I'm going to a NON MTOE, non RFX unit with CONUS tied METL.

I feel very lucky as a 1LT to have learned the systems enough that going forward I can vet potential units I may transfer to for unrealistic training expectations.

chris 12-01-2019 2:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishJoe3 (Post 23644086)
Just got back from the sandbox. It's truly incredible how incompetent higher levels of army leadership are.

I was in awe. That is all.

I'm heading to the sand box in a few months. And I'll tell you I'm not looking forward to it at all. It's only Kuwait and it's not a deployment as my CO is calling it.

We have a ton of slick sleeve officers who will no doubt go somewhere and get their patch with actually not doing anything outside other than getting there.


I did a stateside mob and that actually wasn't that bad. Bliss is certainly better than Kuwait. I went to Iraq 15 years ago and that was an actual deployment. This next one to Kuwait does not sit well with me I don't have the "warm and fuzzy" about it. I've been in for too long to give a crap as well.


As Snoopy has pointed out the Reserves is abusing their people to the point of what the law allows. That is no joke. It's actually stupid to have Reserve or Guard meet AD standards for deployment .

People have jobs, family, hobbies and the like.

The requirements for deployment are actually idiotic. I saw how that was when I was at Bliss I thought it was insane from my side just setting some of it up. Now I'm part of that side. It's more than necessary IMO. I went to Desert Shield with less and OIF as well. Today nope.

The USAR is broken beyond repair. The CAR has allowed this to happen for decades now.


The new PT test is another mess that Reserve and Guard will have to deal with. Another good idea fairy program that is in search of a problem instead of solution.

chris 12-01-2019 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersapper (Post 23636539)

Just wait until the 56 UTA year and 2 x AT per year actually gets traction out of NGB and the Pentagon. It's coming.

That's a level of stupid that doesn't surprise me.

Snoopy47 12-01-2019 8:22 PM

My professional background is Finance and Economics.

I truly believe that a job and it's economic benefit to the employee are directly tied to the amount of BS the employee has to deal with.

What the Army is going to get is a rude awakening to is the new retirement program. I'm on the old one, as like my military guys here know is that reservists are getting 2 retirement point days for our drill time (basically when we are not on issued orders). So it's kind of a deal. I will have effectively get Active Duty retirement pay out prorated on my Points as a Reservist. Not such a bad deal. Technically, I could be looking at a $1200-$1500 check for working one weekend a month two weeks a year (if it were only possible)

Now, what we all know is the NEW retirement plan, while not a "bad" plan per say, is NO LONGER BETTER than anything out there. The pension part of it is now half of what it was, but there is an employee matching part like your 401K where YOU GET TO KEEP IT IF YOU WALK!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, if you are AD and do 20 years as AD this plan is about equal give or take the market risks of your 401K portion of it. If you are reserve, your pension has been cut in half, and the 401K participation part of it SUCKS UP THE AZZ!!!!!!!!!!!! BECAUSE!!!!!!!!!!! You are only participating into the plan based on your DRILL WEEKEND PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

So who really gives a flying crap about putting in 10% of $400 ($200 if you are lower enlisted) a month.

So in about 5 years or so the Army is going to start feeling the effects of employees/soldiers having mobile retirement accounts with no motivations to go to the reserves to get to 20 years. Granted, they may get guys with 15-18 years, but those with 8-12 years will probably reconsider just walking away.

Then those with only RESERVE careers wont be hardly walking away from anything.

Duces...........

How is this countered????????

Well, I went to basic training with kids getting $20K bonuses for signing up as active EOD AND they could only get it once EOD school was finished.

Now........... my reserve soldiers regardless of rank are getting $20K to RE-ENLIST for Warehouse Clerk. So as a re-enlistment an MOSQ PV1 would get that $20K the moment he signs.

So using my economic deduction the amount of BS a reserve warehouse clerk is putting up with is on par with what a kid off the street has to deal with to go through all of TRADOQ and EOD school.

IrishJoe3 12-05-2019 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 23652404)
I'm heading to the sand box in a few months. And I'll tell you I'm not looking forward to it at all. It's only Kuwait and it's not a deployment as my CO is calling it.

We have a ton of slick sleeve officers who will no doubt go somewhere and get their patch with actually not doing anything outside other than getting there.


I did a stateside mob and that actually wasn't that bad. Bliss is certainly better than Kuwait. I went to Iraq 15 years ago and that was an actual deployment. This next one to Kuwait does not sit well with me I don't have the "warm and fuzzy" about it. I've been in for too long to give a crap as well.


As Snoopy has pointed out the Reserves is abusing their people to the point of what the law allows. That is no joke. It's actually stupid to have Reserve or Guard meet AD standards for deployment .

People have jobs, family, hobbies and the like.

The requirements for deployment are actually idiotic. I saw how that was when I was at Bliss I thought it was insane from my side just setting some of it up. Now I'm part of that side. It's more than necessary IMO. I went to Desert Shield with less and OIF as well. Today nope.

The USAR is broken beyond repair. The CAR has allowed this to happen for decades now.


The new PT test is another mess that Reserve and Guard will have to deal with. Another good idea fairy program that is in search of a problem instead of solution.

Hey, good luck Chris. Spent way too much time in Kuwait, much preferred Afghanistan. And yeah new battalion pulled us out of Afghanistan early (mission unfinished) so they could send their own units in to get patches.

I enlisted into the reserves back when we wore BDUs and black boots. In the time since, I've seen the reserves change a lot, some for the better, mostly not though.

This year's deployment was a huge eye opener, even though I knew the problems before we left. My troops kicked *** and performed circles around the active army units. But the politics, apathy and incompetence in leadership was incredible, from company level up. "Specialists with rank" E5s with no desire to lead or pride in the NCO Corp (who woulda seen that when they pushed down "all Promotable E4s must submit a packet) Platoon leaders with no leadership ability or skill, battalion brass who Brown nose their boss and cover their incompetence by **** talking and blaming subordinates/units. Hell, during demob both bliss and home battalion refused to pay for a bus to transport Soldiers from airport to the unit. Nothing says welcome home like basically being told you're on your own.

I've been a platoon sergeant for 11 years and love the job. But now I agree, USAR is broken, leadership is out of touch, Soldiers abused. We have a serious culture problem. And I'm just counting the days till I can pop smoke and get what little retirement I've earned.


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