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-   -   La sues polymer 80 (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1695396)

eagle eye 02-18-2021 5:59 AM

La sues polymer 80
 
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...it-los-angeles

krypto99 02-18-2021 6:10 AM

I find it hard to believe that 40% of guns seized in LA are 80%. Most folks don't even know 80 percents exist. Let me guess... they are hand loading their own ammo to get around the thumb print and background check in LA too?

vpravada 02-18-2021 7:05 AM

This will just help them sell more.

crossout 02-18-2021 7:11 AM

How about they take fighting crime seriously. Start hard raiding these gangs and instill harsher punishments. Make prisons suck again. Not p80s fault criminals break the law.

abinsinia 02-18-2021 7:46 AM

It makes sense that the more popular %80 frames get, the more they would get stolen and used in crimes.

I've looked at the ATF trace data and it shows a decrease in guns with no serial numbers since 2006.

ShaneB 02-18-2021 7:53 AM

There is no use for gun registration, prosecute the person or persons that commited the crime, whoever owns or "made" the gun means nothing.

Lanejsl 02-18-2021 8:08 AM

This seems like a loser for LA. Not sure how polymer 80 has violated a single law. This is a political stunt.

Mute 02-18-2021 8:13 AM

For those who don't want to give a click to the LA Times:

https://archive.vn/KS4Aa

OCEquestrian 02-18-2021 8:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krypto99 (Post 25461556)
I find it hard to believe that 40% of guns seized in LA are 80%. Most folks don't even know 80 percents exist. Let me guess... they are hand loading their own ammo to get around the thumb print and background check in LA too?

You really dont think enterprising criminal entrepreneurs have been building and selling these things to criminals all along? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: As a criminal felon, wouldn't you make a point to carry a gun that the police could never prove was stolen?

The Gleam 02-18-2021 8:24 AM

So glad that I only ever bought 75% receivers.

Not that it would matter, because I handed them out on Halloween to the best-dressed kids. Everyone else only got Candy Corn.

M1NM 02-18-2021 8:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abinsinia (Post 25461945)
I've looked at the ATF trace data and it shows a decrease in guns with no serial numbers since 2006.

And their data includes guns whose serial number was removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneB (Post 25461985)
There is no use for gun registration, prosecute the person or persons that commited the crime, whoever owns or "made" the gun means nothing.

Who owns the gun can be a great jail opportunity. Most of the prohibited gang bangers have their girlfriends make straw purchases. If you have someone cranking out 80%ers and selling them out of his trunk to anybody that wants one he needs to go to jail. In your vision these criminals go unpunished.

D.A.V.I.D. 02-18-2021 8:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krypto99 (Post 25461556)
I find it hard to believe that 40% of guns seized in LA are 80%. Most folks don't even know 80 percents exist. Let me guess... they are hand loading their own ammo to get around the thumb print and background check in LA too?

I'm not in LA but I follow the local stringer on instagram who posts pics from arrests etc. and 80% glocks are undoubtedly the most common by a large margin.

c good 02-18-2021 8:42 AM

All bought with bogus accounts from our taxpayer paid EDD cards.

DrewN 02-18-2021 8:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.A.V.I.D. (Post 25462178)
I'm not in LA but I follow the local stringer on instagram who posts pics from arrests etc. and 80% glocks are undoubtedly the most common by a large margin.

And I saw something about a guy who was stripping down seized guns slated for destruction and reselling the parts. He had like 4K slides or something and never would have been busted if he didn't get greedy and steal some serialized stuff.

bohoki 02-18-2021 9:09 AM

i have been watching nixle reports and yea many of the "glocks" they round up are the poly80 someone there must be someone out there that makes them

at least they wont get charged for having a stolen gun anymore

Quote:

I've looked at the ATF trace data and it shows a decrease in guns with no serial numbers since 2006.
this makes sense the atf doesnt want to hear about homebuilds there is nothing to trace so they are not reported

abinsinia 02-18-2021 9:18 AM

Why pay $600 for an %80 which you need skill to build when stolen guns are $100 from drug dealers?

In a small city there are 6-7 guns stolen per year and traded for heroin.

Whiskey3 02-18-2021 9:24 AM

Im with M1. If the price point supports it, bad guy will buy the kits, make/assemble, and sell. Its capitalism.

Rover 02-18-2021 9:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.A.V.I.D. (Post 25462178)
I'm not in LA but I follow the local stringer on instagram who posts pics from arrests etc. and 80% glocks are undoubtedly the most common by a large margin.

Have several LEO friends and yes, they pull a lot of P80s off dirtbags. I don't think LA has a case, unless the ATF investigation turns something up that shows P80 knowingly sold kits because they were easy for prohibited persons to acquire.

This is one of those issues where I hate to admit it, but the antis do sort of have a point, the easy availability of a complete gun in a box "some assembly required" has become a bit of a problem. Previously for a felon to get a gun they'd either have to know where to steal one from themselves, or rely on somebody else to commit 1 or more felonies on their behalf, now you just order that thing off the internet. Not every prohibited person is a dumb gangbanger, plenty of people smart enough to operate a drill on the prohibited list.

Before everybody dogpiles on me, I'm not saying there should be illegal, but denying that the problem exists isn't going to get us anywhere but a ban. The sooner we recognize and admit there's a problem, the better we can work to find a solution besides a ban.

ShaneB 02-18-2021 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1NM (Post 25462132)
And their data includes guns whose serial number was removed.



Who owns the gun can be a great jail opportunity. Most of the prohibited gang bangers have their girlfriends make straw purchases. If you have someone cranking out 80%ers and selling them out of his trunk to anybody that wants one he needs to go to jail. In your vision these criminals go unpunished.

And your vision is typical brainwashed california mindset. Gun registration creates victimless crimes, same as the "war on drugs". In my vision if you kill someone and its proven in court you get put to death period, end of story, the tool used and who owns it or built it is of no consequence.

ShaneB 02-18-2021 9:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.O.A.R. (Post 25462441)
So you're fine with murderers who doesn't get caught? Just murder away, as long as you don't get caught to get proven in trial, its a-ok? And if proven reason of insanity, a-ok too right?

Where in my post did I say Im fine with murderers not getting caught? And what does "proven reason of insanity" have to do with gun registration?

sigstroker 02-18-2021 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krypto99 (Post 25461556)
I find it hard to believe that 40% of guns seized in LA are 80%. Most folks don't even know 80 percents exist. Let me guess... they are hand loading their own ammo to get around the thumb print and background check in LA too?

LOL, they do now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vpravada (Post 25461748)
This will just help them sell more.

Bingo!

9Cal_OC 02-18-2021 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanejsl (Post 25462044)
This seems like a loser for LA. Not sure how polymer 80 has violated a single law. This is a political stunt.

Exactly. I saw it on the news yesterday. What a crock.

It’s all the criminals who are using them.

Lead Waster 02-18-2021 10:14 AM

Hmm, I'm going to guess that 100% of the crimes in LA were committed by residents of LA, so shouldn't the city be sued?

Harry Ono 02-18-2021 10:19 AM

Not to worry, it was not the criminals fault. They all should be let go back into society.

nick 02-18-2021 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1NM (Post 25462132)
Who owns the gun can be a great jail opportunity. Most of the prohibited gang bangers have their girlfriends make straw purchases. If you have someone cranking out 80%ers and selling them out of his trunk to anybody that wants one he needs to go to jail. In your vision these criminals go unpunished.

Except for that going after baby mommas for straw purchases is politically bad, same as actually fighting crime. It's much better politically, no to mention easier to go after those who don't commit crimes. For instance, gun manufacturers or regular gun owners.

nick 02-18-2021 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanejsl (Post 25462044)
This seems like a loser for LA. Not sure how polymer 80 has violated a single law. This is a political stunt.

Wouldn't be the first time CA and CA cities sued someone for breaking no laws.

hunterb 02-18-2021 10:26 AM

Didn't they just REDUCE the penalty for gun crimes recently?! Clown world.

JTROKS 02-18-2021 10:33 AM

Last month most of the handguns confiscated by our PD and county LEAs were 80% so called ghost guns, Glock and AR15 type. They busted a couple of suspects selling drugs and guns through some social media site. It’s like a 1 stop shop for criminals with money. Before the busts we can hear sporadic gunfire without any known victims or damages to houses or buildings. It’s probably the seller of these guns testing it out with the buyers,

bugsy714 02-18-2021 10:38 AM

Plusone on the first hand experience with friends who are LEO and the frequency of encountering polymer 80 guns on the beat

The kicker is they don’t get to stack all those juicy other charges possession of a stolen firearm, destroying the serial number blah blah blah which lead to much harsher sentences. The criminals aren’t stupid even a crappy gun on the streets cost 500 bucks so $600 for a gun with all of the above vantages over a stolen gun is a no brainer

Even my LEO friend who to is highly in support of the second amendmenta says he hates to admit it but this one is a loophole that needs to get closed


Dictated but not read, voice typing plus bad eyes equals typos

nick 02-18-2021 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsy714 (Post 25462711)
Plusone on the first hand experience with friends who are LEO and the frequency of encountering polymer 80 guns on the beat

The kicker is they don’t get to stack all those juicy other charges possession of a stolen firearm, destroying the serial number blah blah blah which lead to much harsher sentences. The criminals aren’t stupid even a crappy gun on the streets cost 500 bucks so $600 for a gun with all of the above vantages over a stolen gun is a no brainer

Even my LEO friend who to is highly in support of the second amendmenta says he hates to admit it but this one is a loophole that needs to get closed


Dictated but not read, voice typing plus bad eyes equals typos


So, another infringement is demanded in order to stack more charges on criminals, even though we prosecute them less and less? I think, many have forgotten that the goal is to reduce crime, which involves going after criminals, not "reducing availability of guns to criminals". Those are not the same things. Criminals had no issues finding guns before Polymer80 was even around. They commit crimes because they're criminals, not because Polymer80 came into existence.

CWL 02-18-2021 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krypto99 (Post 25461556)
I find it hard to believe that 40% of guns seized in LA are 80%. Most folks don't even know 80 percents exist. Let me guess... they are hand loading their own ammo to get around the thumb print and background check in LA too?

What you don't know only means you don't know. It has nothing to do with criminals accessing untraceable guns. Criminals trade in useful info and 80% built ghost guns are a big deal nowadays.

If you simply subscribed to your local nixle, you would notice an alarming trend in ghost guns turning up in all manner of crimes committed.

hermosabeach 02-18-2021 10:58 AM

I'd like to see what data the LAPD reported to the FBI.


Seriously- feinstein sued the folks selling magazine parts to CA... They could not afford to defend the suit...


Bloomberg and other know they can simply bankrupt anyone with excessive legal attacks....


How can a small shop defend lawsuits in 10 cities?

LA files suit- hire a local firm to defend- $50K out of pocket
2 weeks later- NY sues them - hire local firm to defend - another $50K

1 month later - a city in Oregon files suit -
1 month later- detroit files suit


at a certain point- you are done

robledor 02-18-2021 11:01 AM

Ok I actually worked in LE. Banning 80% guns would do absolutely nothing. NOTHING. criminals are very intelligent.
They WILL come up with something new. If you don't believe me YouTube home made guns.
And Banning 80s would be a direct violation of our 2A. no compromises no MORE BANNING sh*t....

robledor 02-18-2021 11:03 AM

Also forgot to add 3D printing....

ShaneB 02-18-2021 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick (Post 25462796)
So, another infringement is demanded in order to stack more charges on criminals, even though we prosecute them less and less? I think, many have forgotten that the goal is to reduce crime, which involves going after criminals, not "reducing availability of guns to criminals". Those are not the same things. Criminals had no issues finding guns before Polymer80 was even around. They commit crimes because they're criminals, not because Polymer80 came into existence.

This, enforce the laws that are on the books already, making new laws does nothing, its already illegal to rob a store, kill someone, carjack someone, what the hell does it matter whether the gun is an 80% or not.

bugsy714 02-18-2021 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick (Post 25462796)
So, another infringement is demanded in order to stack more charges on criminals, even though we prosecute them less and less? I think, many have forgotten that the goal is to reduce crime, which involves going after criminals, not "reducing availability of guns to criminals". Those are not the same things. Criminals had no issues finding guns before Polymer80 was even around. They commit crimes because they're criminals, not because Polymer80 came into existence.


At some point we have to draw the line with libertarianism versus the greater good. I am not for more bull**** laws however I am all for making it more difficult and a harsher penalties to obtain and use a stolen gun and if polymer at 80 is being used as an avenue around this then the loophole might need to get closed


Dictated but not read, voice typing plus bad eyes equals typos

Dvrjon 02-18-2021 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hermosabeach (Post 25462804)
I'd like to see what data the LAPD reported to the FBI.
Seriously- feinstein sued the folks selling magazine parts to CA... They could not afford to defend the suit...

Seriously, Feinstein didn't do that.

But, this individual company attack plan will broaden widely when (not if) Biden gets legislation to allow suing manufacturers for firearm deaths.

Scratch705 02-18-2021 11:30 AM

seems i should go buy some p80s in cash to store away.

nick 02-18-2021 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsy714 (Post 25462904)
At some point we have to draw the line with libertarianism versus the greater good. I am not for more bull**** laws however I am all for making it more difficult and a harsher penalties to obtain and use a stolen gun and if polymer at 80 is being used as an avenue around this then the loophole might need to get closed


Dictated but not read, voice typing plus bad eyes equals typos


The line was drawn at the founding of this country. And even if that's not good enough, laws aren't supposed to be passed based on what we FEEL would be a good idea. There has to be solid scientific backing behind them, and there's no such backing for such a law.

It has to be proven that such a law would serve a good purpose (it doesn't), would be able to accomplish it (it won't), that the infringement, required to achieve such a purpose is not overly broad (it is), that the same thing cannot be accomplished with less infringement (that's not the case here), and that the benefits outweigh the infringement (they don't). So it would be just another useless infringement. And what you're calling a "loophole" is following the existing law. The whole term 'loophole' is idiotic and created to demonize something the control freaks in charge want to ban. After all, saying 'we want to ban this lawful practice' doesn't sound as good as saying 'we want to close this loophole'.

So yes, you ARE for more bull**** laws. Moreover, you're shooting at the wrong target by focusing on the tool rather than the criminal. Especially when the government goes less and less after the criminals and more and more after the tools. With, apparently, your support. Focusing on the tool rarely yields good results when fighting crime. Focusing on the criminals and their surroundings and socioeconomic factors does. Yet the latter is politically incorrect while going after the tools is all the rage. With predictable results.

SVT-40 02-18-2021 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCEquestrian (Post 25462110)
You really dont think enterprising criminal entrepreneurs have been building and selling these things to criminals all along? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: As a criminal felon, wouldn't you make a point to carry a gun that the police could never prove was stolen?

No, 99% of criminals don't think things through, and most won't pay the $600 plus it costs to build a 80% pistol.

Most criminals don't care that the gun they use is stolen.. If they are caught it's just another charge to be rolled into the others and ultimately plea bargained down, or not charged at all.


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