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-   -   Benelli M4 vs. the clones (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1810167)

Batman 07-29-2022 9:16 PM

Benelli M4 vs. the clones
 
I like the Benelli M4, but not the price. There are a couple of clones, the Panzer M4 and the Copolla T4 that are in the $500~$600 price range. Does anyone have any experience with the clones? From what I understand, they're so close that parts interchange, etc.

Let me know, please.

CamW 07-29-2022 9:21 PM

Dave's Metal Works makes magazine replacement tubes and other accessories for the Turkish M4 clones.

http://davesmetalworks.com/turkish.html

stormvet 07-30-2022 6:52 AM

I have one of the original Turk fakes, the Hatsan Escort MP. Paid $440 for it back in 2012 I believe. Picked up a +2 extension for it but can’t remember the make, it runs well. Shoots most low brass and never an issue will any high brass. Trigger is not great and loading gate is not fast for reloads but it’s not given me any problems in the 10 years I’ve owned it. It’s a solid SA tactical type shotgun, but you’ll never mistake it for a M4 or a 1301.

stormvet 07-30-2022 6:53 AM

Got that double post thing going on again.

Russian Bot 07-30-2022 7:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormvet (Post 27124291)
I have one of the original Turk fakes, the Hatsan Escort MP. Paid $440 for it back in 2012 I believe. Picked up a +2 extension for it but canít remember the make, it runs well. Shoots most low brass and never an issue will any high brass. Trigger is not great and loading gate is not fast for reloads but itís not given me any problems in the 10 years Iíve owned it. Itís a solid SA tactical type shotgun, but youíll never mistake it for a M4 or a 1301.

I dont think that's an M4 clone though. It's operating system is different.

The M4 clone reviews I have seen have been very hit and miss. Either they're flawless and the owner loves the gun, or the pistons seem to apply uneven pressure destroying one side of the bolt and driving the bolt into the receiver causing a lot of damage.

Friar5119 07-30-2022 8:16 AM

There is a 41 page thread on the subject here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/B...520113/?page=1

stormvet 07-30-2022 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russian Bot (Post 27124354)
I dont think that's an M4 clone though. It's operating system is different.

The M4 clone reviews I have seen have been very hit and miss. Either they're flawless and the owner loves the gun, or the pistons seem to apply uneven pressure destroying one side of the bolt and driving the bolt into the receiver causing a lot of damage.

Yes different operating system, didnít realize they were copying that now too. Can see why it would be hit or miss, not a easy system to imitate on a budget. Iím wondering if they are all made by the same at the same place and then just given a different name depending on the importer. May really not make a difference in which one you buy, they will all be hit or miss.

The Gleam 07-30-2022 6:41 PM

There are clones? Had no idea.

Bought a pair of the original M1014 guns that were on the market around 20 years ago as a limited run and never looked elsewhere. (the one with the US flag and factory CA-version skeleton stock)


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BigPimping 07-30-2022 7:38 PM

I have a Stevens 320 with a pistol grip stock. Seems to work pretty well. An M4 is just too expensive.

Corbin Dallas 07-30-2022 8:06 PM

Is it a must for a gas operated shotgun?

tigerpan 07-30-2022 8:18 PM

You get heya you pay for.

Bakerloo 07-31-2022 6:29 AM

Do you buy the store brand Mac n Cheese or Kraft?
You shouldn't scrimp on either one.:p

Capybara 07-31-2022 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerloo (Post 27126974)
Do you buy the store band Mac n Cheese or Kraft? You shouldn't scrimp on either one.:p

Or you throw that crap in the rubbish bin where it belongs and do the hard work to make it delicious. To be fair though, he also did a video with I think it was Kraft and admitted that it tasted less horrible than he thought it would.


deadcoyote 07-31-2022 4:30 PM

Not a true parallel to your M4 question but I have a stoeger M3K which is a benelli M2 clone and it runs like a top. I’ve got about 1k rounds through it. I’ve also never done any of the benelli parts replacements in it which some people say are a must. I’m not trying to say those folks are wrong, I’m just saying out of the box I didn’t need anything to make it run. In the future maybe I’ll do the whole kit anyway.

walmart_ar15 07-31-2022 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russian Bot (Post 27124354)
I dont think that's an M4 clone though. It's operating system is different.

The M4 clone reviews I have seen have been very hit and miss. Either they're flawless and the owner loves the gun, or the pistons seem to apply uneven pressure destroying one side of the bolt and driving the bolt into the receiver causing a lot of damage.

Benelli has the same issue with uneven gas piston rod. You just donít hear about them. The issue is piston rod being shorter, so instead of pushing the bolt back, it hammers the bolt.

I got a CD clone and a Benelli. Finish is better on the $2k gun vs the $500 version, and the stock is more comfortable on the Benelli. Otherwise they work exactly the same.

Not all clones are parts interchangable with M4. CD mag tube is different. As previous poster noted, Dave has the mag tube for the clones.

Angrysnarf 08-01-2022 9:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigPimping (Post 27126320)
I have a Stevens 320 with a pistol grip stock. Seems to work pretty well. An M4 is just too expensive.

I was going to get one but dicks was being a dick...ended up getting a hawk 982t for $150 hasnt let me down after thousands of rounds in 11 years.

For semi I ended up with a girsan 312 (m2 clone) same thing but not a many rounds yet.

Russian Bot 08-01-2022 9:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormvet (Post 27124926)
Yes different operating system, didnít realize they were copying that now too. Can see why it would be hit or miss, not a easy system to imitate on a budget. Iím wondering if they are all made by the same at the same place and then just given a different name depending on the importer. May really not make a difference in which one you buy, they will all be hit or miss.

My understanding is that they're all made in a couple of different places and then branded for each.

Russian Bot 08-01-2022 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 (Post 27128520)
Benelli has the same issue with uneven gas piston rod. You just donít hear about them. The issue is piston rod being shorter, so instead of pushing the bolt back, it hammers the bolt.

I got a CD clone and a Benelli. Finish is better on the $2k gun vs the $500 version, and the stock is more comfortable on the Benelli. Otherwise they work exactly the same.

Not all clones are parts interchangable with M4. CD mag tube is different. As previous poster noted, Dave has the mag tube for the clones.

Granted, but I bet you don't hear about it so much because Benelli takes care of the issue, where as a lot of the Turkish built brands band aid one issue while ignoring another. I'd also assume Benelli has better QC before it leaves the factory.
Wouldn't be put off of throwing $500 at a clone, but I've been seeing them in the $900 range and that's just not going to happen.

vf111 08-01-2022 12:15 PM

My M4 that I've had since 2012. Never even considered a clone.

Attachment 1106213

DrewN 08-02-2022 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vf111 (Post 27130673)
My M4 that I've had since 2012. Never even considered a clone.

Attachment 1106213

Good for you? But this is a thread about the clones. We know we can overspend on a Benelli if we wanted or needed to, that isn't the question.

Angrysnarf 08-02-2022 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewN (Post 27132781)
Good for you? But this is a thread about the clones. We know we can overspend on a Benelli if we wanted or needed to, that isn't the question.

word

Wish I had got me a panzer m4 while I had the chance

walmart_ar15 08-02-2022 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russian Bot (Post 27130233)
Granted, but I bet you don't hear about it so much because Benelli takes care of the issue, where as a lot of the Turkish built brands band aid one issue while ignoring another. I'd also assume Benelli has better QC before it leaves the factory.
Wouldn't be put off of throwing $500 at a clone, but I've been seeing them in the $900 range and that's just not going to happen.

Yup, that's why one is over $2K and the other can be had around $500. For $1.5K more you buy the QC, post sale service, and the name.

For majority of the clone owners, there are no issues. If you search, there is maybe about a handful of post about problems and most are from the same guy complaining about bad post sale service. Even him got the replacement barrel in the end, but not the bolt so he continues to compliant while he no longer has any more issue firing and cycling the gun. Of course compare that to the Benelli owner who had the exact same issue, Benelli immediately replace both the barrel and the bolt and now the owner just praised how good the Benelli customer service was. ;)

Sarcastic part is that if the CD owner with the lemon just bought another clone, chances are there will be no problem and he would still be $1K ahead compared to the Benelli owner who had his gun fixed :p

However, if the clones are now costing close to $1K themselves, then the calculus is a bit different, the extra money for the Benelli may now be worth it.

Dirk Tungsten 08-02-2022 8:28 AM

Good lord, are the clones really nearing $1k? That's outrageous. I paid $500 for mine and as of yet haven't had any problems (knock on wood). For $500 I also wasn't expecting much in the way of post-sale service, maybe the guy who had issues with his CD was a little unrealistic.

DrewN 08-02-2022 9:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten (Post 27132984)
Good lord, are the clones really nearing $1k? That's outrageous. I paid $500 for mine and as of yet haven't had any problems (knock on wood). For $500 I also wasn't expecting much in the way of post-sale service, maybe the guy who had issues with his CD was a little unrealistic.

The Toros is $599. That's the only one I track for some reason.

vf111 08-02-2022 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewN (Post 27132781)
Good for you? But this is a thread about the clones. We know we can overspend on a Benelli if we wanted or needed to, that isn't the question.

Except the OP asked "Benelli M4 vs clones" and I gave him my opinion. You do your thing and I'll do mine. Peace out.

BajaJames83 08-02-2022 10:58 AM

My versamax was the best benelli clone I ever got.

taperxz 08-02-2022 11:11 AM

Clones are crap. Their 1301 clone seems to have issues too.

walmart_ar15 08-03-2022 7:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperxz (Post 27133506)
Clones are crap. Their 1301 clone seems to have issues too.

Do you own a Benelli clone? Sincerely like to know. If you have crappy experience with a clone, pls share specifics.

I own both a Benelli H2O M4 and a CD clone. I can tell you they both function just fine.

Berretta owns Benelli, and Berretta source OEM parts from Turkey manufacturers. Many Turkey made clones are not reversed engineered.

DrewN 08-03-2022 8:13 AM

Calgunners: You can't stop us, we can machine/manufacture/3D print perfectly good guns! Also Calgunners: Turkey? No way Turkey can make a shotgun as well as the Italians! Can't be done!

chefdude 08-03-2022 3:27 PM

save your money and buy the Benelli (it has a proprietery gas system), or a Beretta 1301 (it has its own BLINK gas system), or if you can find a used FN SLP... you get what you pay for. buying crap clone shotguns will only result in disappointment and cycling issues

Angrysnarf 08-03-2022 3:39 PM

Love my girsan m2 clone. Wish I can get a 18.5 in barrel for it but 20in is fine.

Dirk Tungsten 08-03-2022 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefdude (Post 27137323)
save your money and buy the Benelli (it has a proprietery gas system), or a Beretta 1301 (it has its own BLINK gas system), or if you can find a used FN SLP... you get what you pay for. buying crap clone shotguns will only result in disappointment and cycling issues

The turkish M4 clones are literally clones (for the most part) of the M4. they have copies of the gas system under the hood. As far as cycling issues the only time ive had issues is with walmart bulk pack ammo, and that's apparently a problem with the Benellis as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angrysnarf (Post 27137357)
Love my girsan m2 clone. Wish I can get a 18.5 in barrel for it but 20in is fine.

buy a hacksaw

walmart_ar15 08-04-2022 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angrysnarf (Post 27137357)
Love my girsan m2 clone. Wish I can get a 18.5 in barrel for it but 20in is fine.

The best part of being a "clone" is that it maybe able to accept OEM parts, ie buy a Benelli 18.5 barrel if you must. (however, barrel itself may cost more than your gun :D)

Hacking it off will work, but you will lose the choke.

DrewN 08-04-2022 7:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 (Post 27138849)
The best part of being a "clone" is that it maybe able to accept OEM parts, ie buy a Benelli 18.5 barrel if you must. (however, barrel itself may cost more than your gun :D)

Hacking it off will work, but you will lose the choke.

There's a list somewhere of which ones have more compatibility, but most are 100% interchangeable.

Angrysnarf 08-04-2022 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten (Post 27137756)
The turkish M4 clones are literally clones (for the most part) of the M4. they have copies of the gas system under the hood. As far as cycling issues the only time ive had issues is with walmart bulk pack ammo, and that's apparently a problem with the Benellis as well.



buy a hacksaw

Not the issue, barrel is ribbed

Angrysnarf 08-04-2022 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 (Post 27138849)
The best part of being a "clone" is that it maybe able to accept OEM parts, ie buy a Benelli 18.5 barrel if you must. (however, barrel itself may cost more than your gun :D)

Hacking it off will work, but you will lose the choke.

Losing it is a non issue

Friar5119 08-04-2022 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 (Post 27138849)
Hacking it off will work, but you will lose the choke.

Cutting the barrel might hurt the resale value.

:hide:

walmart_ar15 08-05-2022 4:54 PM

Just in case anyone is interested. Tuners has the M4 clone on sale for $549.

Russian Bot 08-05-2022 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 (Post 27143703)
Just in case anyone is interested. Tuners has the M4 clone on sale for $549.

At that price I may have to snag one. I noticed it entitled a Lifetime Warranty too. Wonder how that works though.

The Gleam 08-05-2022 9:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 (Post 27143703)
Just in case anyone is interested. Tuners has the M4 clone on sale for $549.

Saw that - was thinking to get one just for the fact this thread got me intrigued.

I bought 2 M4s shortly after they were introduced, but my curiosity cultivated by this thread has gotten the best of me, to buy one if only to try out one of these clones and mess with customizing it.

That cost is a pittance to what I typically spend on a business meeting lunch. The money spent on this clone would likely bring more fun and past-time value than 90% of the useless crap that most people blow their wallet on.

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