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View Full Version : My "Trim-It" and "Trim-It II" Reviews: The Good, Bad and the Ugly


BigJ
10-25-2014, 10:44 AM
I've used this product now enough to feel comfortable retelling my experiences, and drawing some conclusions. My hope is that someone looking for a similar solution might learn something, and that maybe I might help someone make a more informed decision. I'd have wanted the information explained below before I'd bought anything...

**DISCLAIMER: I bought all the products I'm about to review via the group buy ran by BigBronco. I was not compensated in any way for the following, nor should anything both positive or negative I say reflect on BigBronco; he's to be commended for all his hard and thankless work bringing this option to us. He too made a whopping zero off any of this.

Ok then, on to the review:

Introduction: there are currently two flavors of the Trim-It offered by the ACT Tactical/Black Widow Shooters/80 Percent AR group; the "Trim-It" and "Trim-It II": http://www.eztrimit.com/

The difference between the two is the cutter; the original Trim-It offers a squared off end mill style cutter that, in theory, would require you to provide your own chamfer and debur solution
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/trimit.JPG

The Trim-It II offers a 3-way cutting head that, in theory, trims chamfers and deburrs all at once; no need for a second set of tools or another step.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2011.07.36.jpg

Both use the same cutting body, and same busing/insert system. These inserts are swappable into and out of the body, and therefore to switch calibers all one need do is drop in the correct bushing, readjust your settings as per the instructions and off you go.

The Good:
The idea behind the Trim-It concept in general is a good one. The swappable bushing system just makes a ton of sense to me; instead of having to replace an entire system or body to swap calibers, all you need do is buy the correct sized bushing, drop the old one and insert the new one. Very clean very easy very simple. And when you buy either version, you'll get two bushings included (you specify the calibers) and each additional will run you approx $15. In my case I picked up a 30-06, 308, 223, and 7.5x55.

Another plus in my book is how the system indexes; the bushing positions the brass into the cutter based off the neck of the case, and not based off the head of the case. For me and how I prefer to do things, this is a big deal.

In terms of the actual cut itself, take a look at how the Trim-It cuts:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2010.44.03.jpg

^^That there is beautiful. Its so nice in fact that I can't feel any real sharp bur or edge that might need to be cut off (especially after a final clean in my SS media tumber). Only time will tell how long the cutting head of the original Trim It is able to maintain such a nice cut, but that piece you're looking at is exactly brass number 1500. So far so good.

Another 'good': this is by far the fastest trim solution I've used. And I've used a few. Moving at a comfortable pace, I can easily process 30 pieces per minute with either version of the Trim-It. Here's my setup:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2010.13.12.jpg

As my left hand is holding a piece in the cutter, my right hand grabs a piece from the right hand side gray bin. My left hand pulls out the finished piece, and drops it in the clear bin on the far left, then moves to grab an unfinished piece from the gray bin on the left. While that's going on, my right hand is inserting its piece into the cutter and holding. Then out with the right, drop into the far right clear bin, left hand inserts into the cutter, right hand grabs from the right gray bin... 2 seconds per, easily. In 10 minutes I got thru 300 30-06s. Very nice.

Also, with the method above fatigue is minimized. It takes little to no effort to hold the brass into the cutter, and my movements are kept at a minimum. In fact, my wife was able to use this system just as easily as I was to process 1000 of her 223s, and felt no soreness or fatigue when done.

The Bad:
The Trim-It II. Plain and simple. This is a design that needs work, and in my humble opinion simply isn't ready for prime time. Here's why:

Setting up the cutter is no small job. I've done it now 4 times, and I can get it *fairly* close within about 15 minutes of fiddling. I'll spare you all the details of how I actually end up setting it up (if you're interested just ask) but in the end I do get it set, and it does hold position, and it does cut and chamfer and debur. Kinda. See what I mean here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2.jpg

That's the same piece of brass, just spun 180 degrees on the table. See the reflection? See how large they are in the first pic on both the inside and outside edge, and how small they are in the second? No matter how I tweak it, I just can't get the thing to cut evenly. I always end up with an uneven chamfer and debur. (And yes, I am doing the spin-it-by-hand-in-the-holder trick. Without that trick, it will almost never cut one side at all.)

I knew these issues going in, but having now done my very best to work with them, in retrospect I would not have bought the Trim-It II cutting heads and saved myself $$$ (I bought two figuring I'd set-it-and-forget-it, one for each of my main calibers).

Now the ugly:
There are two show stoppers you need to be aware of before you decide to buy and/or use your Trim-It. 1) the aluminum of the body is SOFT. I mean, like super soft. And 2) you can get hurt if you're not paying attention.

1) I am no stranger to set screws, their use, my strength etc... and yet I still managed to strip both the cutter holder and adjustment holder set screw holes in the body cap. Yes, its entirely possible this is 100% my fault and you will have no problem. However, I know for me, and given my experience, I've never had something strip so easily. IMHO the line between too loose and stripped with the Trim It is razor thin.

I ended up drilling and tapping two new holes just so I could keep working
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2009.52.07.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2009.54.16.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2009.49.01.jpg

I expect this voided my warranty, and I don't expect the Trim-It folks to do anything about it, but still I plan to let them know on general principle.

2) The plastic shavings shield will bite you if you're not careful. The pic below shows the issue.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-25%2010.28.00.jpg

Picture that spinning. See the gap? Yeeaahh...I got nailed pretty good once. Drew blood. I stopped using it. YMMV.

So the bottom line? Three points:

1) For me, in my opinion, the original Trim-It is a winner. So long as its gotchas are understood and managed, I've found it quick to setup, easy to adjust, and it cuts so super smooth that, if you're like me and final tumble with SS media and use boat tail bullets, you might not need to chamfer or debur at all.

2) The Trim-It II needs work before its viable. I would not have bought it (twice) knowing what I know now.

3) I'm worried about the body in the long term. No question I'm going to strip it out again. I can probably drill and tap it a few more times before its a serious problem, but really should I have to?

Hope that helps.

***UPDATE 10/30/14***
I've been in contact with Troy, and we've decided I'll be sending back both 3-way's for a full refund. Troy is more than willing to take the parts back I'm not happy with under their satisfaction guarantee. Good deal.

Troy has also decided to replace my Trim It body, so long as I'm willing to cover shipping (which is aok with me). They're understandably confused as to why I so easily stripped those two holes; Troy confirms the body is made of 6061-T6 aluminium which is pretty durable and should take even some level of over tightening. Also, I *did* void my warranty by drilling and tapping those two holes. *DO NOT DO IT* if you run into the same problem. Just get ahold of them and let them know what happened and go from there.

Even with all that said and with me repeating again I'm more than willing to accept responsibility for stripping the body and voiding the warranty, Troy will take mine back and replace it under a one time exception to the rule. Pretty darn good customer service if you ask me.

Beyond all that Troy tells me they're discussing the concerns I (and others) have raised, and are going to see what can be done to tighten up tolerances moving forward. When they get there, I'll be glad to give the 3-way another try!

***UPDATE 11/14/14***
True to his word, Troy sent me a brand new Trim It body and a refund check for the 2x 3-way cutters I wouldn't be using.

I can't say enough about the customer support I've received through all this. Rarely have I seen a company stand so firmly behind their product and put their money where their mouth is like Troy and his group have here. When they get the issues with the design ironed out, I will not hesitate to buy from them again, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on them as they push forward and continue to innovate.

bigedp51
10-25-2014, 12:49 PM
As they say in China............Cheaper better faster.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/trimmers-b_zps161eba67.jpg

And then there is SHTF power failure slow but sure mode.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Leetrimmer_zpsc2d6c83a.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/p_100020135_1_zps449f3828.jpg

BigJ
10-25-2014, 12:54 PM
As they say in China............Cheaper better faster.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/trimmers-b_zps161eba67.jpgHow do ya figure the WFT is cheaper? Aren't they approx $70 / caliber?

Apples to apples says that's $140 vs $100. Or $210 vs $115, or $280 vs $130... :confused:

CSACANNONEER
10-25-2014, 1:19 PM
It appears that your trim body might have a slight offset between the center of the bushings and the center of the cutter shaft.

BigJ
10-25-2014, 1:23 PM
It appears that your trim body might have a slight offset between the center of the bushings and the center of the cutter shaft.Yes I think so too. Although I don't think this characteristic is specific to my trim body; I think its the design. The very nature of swappable bearings secured by a set screw dictates some sort of offset (unless specifically designed to account for it; these aren't).

Psychbiker
10-25-2014, 1:38 PM
Nice post. I was checking these out. I have 3 CTS trimmers for 223, 300, 308 and if I'm looking for top notch rounds I need to chamfer in a 2nd step and deburr if I'm not feeling lazy.

It looks like instead of a set screws for the bearing, a snap ring would be better. Problem is a channel would have to milled inside the body and you'd need a pair of snap ring pliers to remove the bearings for calibers changes. Just a thought.

I just saw that Giraud makes a similar which I had no idea. Hate to spend more $$ but it looks like a great piece, but are caliber specific and $90 each hmm...

Dillon's Rt 1500 mounted on a progressive is looking tempting every day now.

Tok36
10-25-2014, 1:42 PM
Thank you for the coverage. Enlightening.

Vicious_138
10-25-2014, 2:33 PM
That's not very encouraging. I just bought one from BigBronco, and haven't had a chance to use it. The responses in the group buy thread were positive, didn't expect this, thanks for the honesty tho.
Maybe the maker can help you out, it has a lifetime warranty.
Anyone else who owns one care to comment?

Eljay
10-25-2014, 5:45 PM
Anyone else who owns one care to comment?

Well, I just got the II and I've literally only done 50 cases in one caliber as a test. Took me about 10 minutes to set it up and I didn't really know what I was doing. but the cutouts in the newer versions of the body make a HUGE difference. My symmetry on the cuts is pretty good. I wonder if his has some minor alignment problem. If that's a luck of the draw thing you should probably try it out sooner rather than later so if you can exchange it if there's a problem.

Or it could be that some problem will develop with smaller brass (I was using 7.62x54R) or with time or something. But so far so good.

If I get home early enough tomorrow I'll be trimming some .30-06 and if so I'll update with how long it took to adjust everything and how it went. The real test to my mind is how it does with 300 BLK (little neck, little shoulders, I have more of it) but I probably won't get around to doing any for a while.

bigedp51
10-25-2014, 6:33 PM
How do ya figure the WFT is cheaper? Aren't they approx $70 / caliber?

Apples to apples says that's $140 vs $100. Or $210 vs $115, or $280 vs $130... :confused:

BigJ

It was meant as humor, my Rockchucker press is 41 years old and the gray Lyman trimmer below is a year younger and I use it 95% of the time. The humor was the WTF was my introduction to newfangled gadgets. :oji:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/trimmers_zps3471139a.jpg

P.S. I no longer live in California but my dad was stationed at Moffett Field when Eisenhower was president when we moved to Milpitas and the population was only 2,100 people.
And there was nothing between Milpitas and San Jose but grain fields and fruit orchards, and now its wall to wall houses and asphalt. (and I don't think Silicon was invented yet when we lived there) :oji:

BigJ
10-25-2014, 6:56 PM
Well, I just got the II and I've literally only done 50 cases in one caliber as a test. Took me about 10 minutes to set it up and I didn't really know what I was doing. but the cutouts in the newer versions of the body make a HUGE difference. My symmetry on the cuts is pretty good. I wonder if his has some minor alignment problem. If that's a luck of the draw thing you should probably try it out sooner rather than later so if you can exchange it if there's a problem.Interesting. It could be luck of the draw but for what it's worth you're the first in 4 different II's I've heard about to not have this same problem. So who knows?
BigJ

It was meant as humor, my Rockchucker press is 41 years old and the gray Lyman trimmer below is a year younger and I use it 95% of the time. The humor was the WTF was my introduction to newfangled gadgets. :oji:

P.S. I no longer live in California but my dad was stationed at Moffett Field when Eisenhower was president when we moved to Milpitas and the population was only 2,100 people.
And there was nothing between Milpitas and San Jose but grain fields and fruit orchards, and now its wall to wall houses and asphalt. (and I don't think Silicon was invented yet when we lived there) :oji:Ahh gotcha :)

I only moved here 10 or 12 years ago for work. All I've ever known the area to be is a congested nightmare. Glad you made it out... Hope to follow suit soon.

Eljay
10-25-2014, 7:25 PM
Interesting. It could be luck of the draw but for what it's worth you're the first in 4 different II's I've heard about to not have this same problem. So who knows?


Maybe this latest batch with the pre-cut windows has better alignment. Maybe it's just less extreme on my unit - I'll check carefully when I do some trimming. I would have noticed something as extreme in your pictures but it doesn't mean it's perfect either.

BigJ
10-25-2014, 7:28 PM
Maybe this latest batch with the pre-cut windows has better alignment. Maybe it's just less extreme on my unit - I'll check carefully when I do some trimming. I would have noticed something as extreme in your pictures but it doesn't mean it's perfect either.

Could be. Although I've had both the original body, and the new big windowed body (my review was written with the latter in mind). I've also tried four different 3-way cutter assemblies. All combos showed the same issue, unfortunately.

Keep us posted on what you find.

BigJ
10-25-2014, 7:33 PM
By the way, Eljay do you have the "locking cutter set screw" ? It's a green nylon tipped setscrew that replaces the original steel one. The new instructions call for it.

Eljay
10-25-2014, 7:49 PM
Speaking of instructions, mine came with the instructions for the original only, nothing about the new cutter, so I've been using the ones you posted in a prior thread.

Is just the tip green or the whole thing? I'll check that too.

BigJ
10-25-2014, 7:53 PM
It's just the tip. It spreads out dispersing the nylon and applying a more even pressure to the flat of the 3-way's shaft. They didn't tell me why they switched, but my guess is with the steel the wobble of the cutter in the body was even worse; the shaft has a smaller diameter than the regular cutter and it fits in there loosely, comparatively speaking.

BigJ
10-25-2014, 7:59 PM
Here's a pic

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/26/ygyru8a7.jpg

Careful with it though. That nylon is soft and its reeeaaally easy to over tighten the thing because of it. I'm sure that's part of why a stripped out that one hole.

Eljay
10-25-2014, 9:35 PM
It's metal tipped.

And guess what - I decided to get a head start on tomorrow and get the trimmer set up while I was thinking about it, and trimmed a couple which went OK but I wanted to change the angle a bit so I'd get more on the inside and less on the outside. I don't know if I turned the wrong set screw, or if something worked itself loose or what but basically started gouging the heck out of the necks and pulling out of my hand. Eventually I figured out that the head was changing lateral position freely and there's a little tiny set screw for that. I tightened it and basically went to start the instructions for scratch and found that the cutter was somehow wedged in there - with the set screw totally removed it wouldn't budge. I finally got it out and there are some gouges in the shaft - it works but doesn't move as freely as it did and who knows if that will introduce some kind of alignment issue.

So finally after an hour of fighting with this thing I got it back together, everything looks good, I trimmed one piece of brass and it looked pretty OK... and the battery on my digital calipers failed.

Yeah.

So I'm going to bed. I don't have a spare battery and if I look at the trimmer I'm likely to just throw it out the window at this point so I think I'm just going to walk away from it for a couple of days.

Eljay
10-25-2014, 9:40 PM
PS If I had to do it over I'd gone with the little individual Giraud trimmers. I avoided that because I shoot a number of rifle calibers and the expense would add up but really I don't do that many in volume. I could have just added them gradually and in the short term used a Lee trimmer on the remainder.

BigBronco
10-26-2014, 5:03 AM
I have been watching this and will foreword it to Troy. I have not had much time with my busy season at work to use mine a bit more. I did as mentioned in the original review was not happy with the off centered chamfer. Though rotating the case made it better. I have been thinking of trying a few things like slipping a grocery bag over the insert when pressing it in to act as a centering gasket before tightening the set screw. I an going to have the a machinist at work take a hard look at what can be done to tighten up the tolerances.

samcam13
10-26-2014, 5:33 AM
Thanks for the review. I was about to send in my original trim it to them (which has about 5K perfect trims on it) to get updated to a II. Think I will wait and see how this unfolds. I will send him a a couple of 458 socom casings so I can have a bushing made for that though....

Eljay
10-26-2014, 6:15 AM
I need to get a custom bushing as well. Part of me says to hold off sending the brass and the check until this is all working but I guess my fallback position is to use it with the flat cutter so I might as well get a bushing for my remaining caliber. It's not high volume so it's not a good candidate for trying out the Giraud.

BigJ
10-26-2014, 7:58 AM
...if I look at the trimmer I'm likely to just throw it out the window...Hah yeeahh I know the feeling too well. When the threads gave way on those set screws, I started to wonder how long I could keep the thing airborn... :28:

I have been watching this and will foreword it to Troy. I have not had much time with my busy season at work to use mine a bit more. I did as mentioned in the original review was not happy with the off centered chamfer. Though rotating the case made it better. I have been thinking of trying a few things like slipping a grocery bag over the insert when pressing it in to act as a centering gasket before tightening the set screw. I an going to have the a machinist at work take a hard look at what can be done to tighten up the tolerances.Thanks BB. Keep us posted on what you find out. I'm also more than willing to keep talking and working with Troy if I can be of help. Like I told him if they can nail down these details, IMHO they'll have one of the (if not the) best trimmers on the market. Hell, I think they're already there with even just the flat cutter.

kpinole
10-26-2014, 10:09 AM
The steel screw cut into my 3-way shaft and I could not even remove it from the housing cap any longer. I spoke to Troy and he said he'd send me a new cap and 3-way shaft. He seems to be fully aware of the possible issues that face the Trim-IT II system and seem to be very lenient with warranty claims. FWIW, my chamfer/debur was pretty even all around. It just wasn't as smooth as doing by hand....there's always little ridges, but my ammo shot fine nonetheless. Not sure if it affects accuracy in any way.

However, after seeing your review, I did not receive any shavings shield, I guess I'll have to call ask them to ship one out. Doh!

BigBronco
10-26-2014, 10:58 AM
The steel screw cut into my 3-way shaft and I could not even remove it from the housing cap any longer. I spoke to Troy and he said he'd send me a new cap and 3-way shaft. He seems to be fully aware of the possible issues that face the Trim-IT II system and seem to be very lenient with warranty claims. FWIW, my chamfer/debur was pretty even all around. It just wasn't as smooth as doing by hand....there's always little ridges, but my ammo shot fine nonetheless. Not sure if it affects accuracy in any way.

However, after seeing your review, I did not receive any shavings shield, I guess I'll have to call ask them to ship one out. Doh!

I have gathered from Troy that the faster the rotation the better. A hand drill seems too slow for the three way cutter. I am envisioning a mandrel to mount it to a bench grinder shaft. Now there is some speed.

pigpen66m
10-26-2014, 2:11 PM
The steel screw cut into my 3-way shaft and I could not even remove it from the housing cap any longer. I spoke to Troy and he said he'd send me a new cap and 3-way shaft. He seems to be fully aware of the possible issues that face the Trim-IT II system and seem to be very lenient with warranty claims. FWIW, my chamfer/debur was pretty even all around. It just wasn't as smooth as doing by hand....there's always little ridges, but my ammo shot fine nonetheless. Not sure if it affects accuracy in any way.

However, after seeing your review, I did not receive any shavings shield, I guess I'll have to call ask them to ship one out. Doh!

I didn't get a shavings shield or instructions with mine.

Jon Road King
10-26-2014, 2:28 PM
I too am getting that lopsided chamfer. Few observations...

When used in a cordless drill the constant start/stop plus sudden stop of the drill seems to be the cause of the set screw loosening. Once I chucked it in my mill, it never came loose again.

Speaking of the mill... there is a very perceptible wobble that I notice which was not apparent when it was chucked in my cordless drill. Although I suspect an overall wobble doesnt cause the lopsided chamfer cut.

Speaking of the lopsided chamfer cut... I very strongly suspect the bushing to be causing it. Specifically the set screw. It appears that the set screw forces the bushing off-center. Take a close look at the bushing in the housing and you will notice a gap on the set screw side.

Eljay
10-26-2014, 2:32 PM
Thanks for the tip that he might be open to replacing my beat up shaft/holder. I didn't get the plastic shield either and it might be handy (see below) so maybe I'll ask about all of that.

So I realized I could scavenge the battery from something else for my calipers, and I had more time today than expected so I gave it another shot. I did manage to trim 150 .30-06 cases without a huge amount of drama.

Observations...
1. I definitely need a fresh battery in my 18V cordless for best results. Actually swapped mid-way and the first battery was full when I started.
2. I'm seeing a little unevenness now in the chamfer. None as bad as in the picture. But there are some where it's deeper on one side than the other. I haven't explored this in detail but I re-ran one and it didn't come out any different. Rotated it, whatever, no change. I wonder if there's some brass to brass variation, like when you size it if there's some wiggle in the shell holder the neck might be out of alignment by a tiny amount? I am totally just speculating here - I haven't done anything that might confirm or deny this.

On the plus side the vast majority of them look really nice and even if I weren't loading boat tails there's none of them that should cause any problems. And once the stupid thing was set up it really went very fast.

My concern of course is that every time I have to adjust anything it's going to be a major pain in the butt, especially now that the cutter shaft doesn't go in and out smoothly. And I have a secondary concern that with some calibers this unevenness might be more of an issue, depending on what I'm loading, how much time I spend fiddling with the angles, etc. We'll see.

Eljay
10-26-2014, 2:34 PM
Just saw Jon Road King's comment. My bushings fit in very tight - they're actually pretty difficult to remove. Is that true for everybody else? If not there might be more room for slop in some of them than others.

ar15barrels
10-26-2014, 3:40 PM
Yes I think so too. Although I don't think this characteristic is specific to my trim body; I think its the design.
The very nature of swappable bearings secured by a set screw dictates some sort of offset (unless specifically designed to account for it; these aren't).

Ditch the setscrew then.
Put the trimmer body in the lathe and cut a 1/16" O-Ring groove in the bearing bore.
Get an appropriate sized O-Ring, grease it up and put it in the groove.
If the groove is done correctly, the bearings should slip in with a tight enough fit to retain them and the O-Ring should center the bearing in the housing.

sako62
10-27-2014, 7:50 AM
Nice post. I was checking these out. I have 3 CTS trimmers for 223, 300, 308 and if I'm looking for top notch rounds I need to chamfer in a 2nd step and deburr if I'm not feeling lazy.



Does somebody know is this company (CTS engineering/Jim Prior) still making and shipping these trimmers? I have ordered one trimmer from him in april..And I have received only empty promises :mad:

If somebody has any info please tell here on send PM. Thanks.

Sorry offtopic and my english..

BigJ
10-27-2014, 8:43 AM
Ditch the setscrew then.
Put the trimmer body in the lathe and cut a 1/16" O-Ring groove in the bearing bore.
Get an appropriate sized O-Ring, grease it up and put it in the groove.
If the groove is done correctly, the bearings should slip in with a tight enough fit to retain them and the O-Ring should center the bearing in the housing.Yup that's one way to solve this. But (1) I'm not really interested in developing someone else's product for them (although I'm more than happy to test a product) and (2) I don't have that capability, anyway.

jetman624
10-27-2014, 9:23 AM
Ditch the setscrew then.
Put the trimmer body in the lathe and cut a 1/16" O-Ring groove in the bearing bore.
Get an appropriate sized O-Ring, grease it up and put it in the groove.
If the groove is done correctly, the bearings should slip in with a tight enough fit to retain them and the O-Ring should center the bearing in the housing.

Would you also want a small groove in the bearing bushing as well to help keep it in place?

I have a mini lathe, but never tried anything like this...

BigJ
10-27-2014, 2:15 PM
FYI: True to their word, they sent me a second "locking cutter set screw". However it looks like they're no longer using the green nylon tipped one and are instead using brass tipped set screws. Better, in my humble opinion.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15659016/Guns/TrimIt/2014-10-27%2015.12.40.jpg

tamalpias
10-27-2014, 2:39 PM
I spring the money and bought an RCBS power trimmer after hand cranking their manual trimmer for years. I know the system works on all my calibers so I rather fork out the money and only cry over it once.

ar15barrels
10-27-2014, 6:28 PM
Would you also want a small groove in the bearing bushing as well to help keep it in place?

I have a mini lathe, but never tried anything like this...

No.
If you put a groove in the the bearing, you would lose the tension of the O-ring.
You need to be squishing the Oring into the groove to create the tension that holds and centers the bearing in the trimmer housing.

CSACANNONEER
10-27-2014, 7:23 PM
I just realized the simple solution to the problem of a slightly offcenter bushing. It's so simple and it should be in the instructions. All you need to do is rotate the brass at least 1/2 a turn while the brass is bottomed out on the cutter.

BigJ
10-27-2014, 7:31 PM
I just realized the simple solution to the problem of a slightly offcenter bushing. It's so simple and it should be in the instructions. All you need to do is rotate the brass at least 1/2 a turn while the brass is bottomed out on the cutter.

Unfortunately that's not the answer. BigBronco suggested it in his initial review, and I did mention the brass I show in the pic is after spinning it as you mention. Not spinning it results in almost no cut at all.

Eljay
10-27-2014, 7:35 PM
And for the record I've been spinning mine as well.

ar15barrels
10-27-2014, 9:39 PM
I just realized the simple solution to the problem of a slightly offcenter bushing. It's so simple and it should be in the instructions. All you need to do is rotate the brass at least 1/2 a turn while the brass is bottomed out on the cutter.

The issue is that the non-concentricity rotates WITH the case.
Therefore, rotating the case does not fix it.
This is a design problem with too much clearance.

CSACANNONEER
10-28-2014, 8:15 AM
Are you guys spinning the brass so it turns with the bushing or is the bushing spinning along with the brass?

Eljay
10-28-2014, 8:21 AM
I would have said I was just spinning the brass by itself. BUT if the set screw had worked loose a bit (and I've had every set screw on this thing work loose) and the bushing was turning with the brass it would explain why I started seeing more problems later in the run. Next time I'll take a sharpie and mark the position so I can tell if it's stable or not.

BigJ
10-28-2014, 8:28 AM
Are you guys spinning the brass so it turns with the bushing or is the bushing spinning along with the brass?

I would have said I was just spinning the brass by itself. BUT if the set screw had worked loose a bit (and I've had every set screw on this thing work loose) and the bushing was turning with the brass it would explain why I started seeing more problems later in the run. Next time I'll take a sharpie and mark the position so I can tell if it's stable or not.
I'm a little confused with the verbiage being used here, but what I can say is that I've tried several methods. One involved pushing up on the case into the bushing such that the shoulder engages the inner bearing and it stops spinning (ie its 'locked' to the case). I then twist half a turn in the opposite direction that the press and therefore outer bearing is spinning so that both the brass and inner bearing are moving in the direction I'm twisting.

I've also allowed the brass to engage the inner bearing just enough so that the friction fit lets the brass spin in my hand in the same direction that the drill, Trim It, outer bearing and inner bearing wants to travel.

IMHO (and I'm not a mechanical engineer) we're not just dealing with an XY wobble, but also a Z wobble. It seems to me the plane created by the spinning cutter head isn't perfectly parallel to the plane created by shoulder engagement in the inner bearing. If true, that might help also explain why some have better results that others. If you happen to adjust/set everything up when the Z is at the bottom of its wobble, you're going to have different results than if you set it up when the Z happened to be at the top of its wobble.

Eljay
10-28-2014, 8:55 AM
I'm clearly going to have to go look closely at one of these things because what you just said doesn't fit my mental image at all. So in the meantime ignore my last comment.

BigJ
10-28-2014, 9:05 AM
I'm clearly going to have to go look closely at one of these things because what you just said doesn't fit my mental image at all. So in the meantime ignore my last comment.No worries. Its hard enough to try and articulate all this with the hardware in my hands, much less trying to picture it my head just by reading someone else's attempt to describe it all. :cheers2:

BigBronco
10-28-2014, 10:35 AM
Now a Z wobble is a different animal all together. Was not thinking in that direction. Do you get an uneven trim Z wobble when using the flat cut end mill? With the cutting head rotating I think a Z wobble would be the result of something out of square with the insert or the body to cap fitment. I have dissected mine and took measurements of slop and fitness. There are issues I am bringing to their attention. I will be heading over there shortly the last of the back order is ready. I have sent Troy a link to this thread and will be discussing these issues to him along with some refinement recommendations.

BigJ
10-28-2014, 10:42 AM
Now a Z wobble is a different animal all together. Was not thinking in that direction. Do you get an uneven trim Z wobble when using the flat cut end mill? With the cutting head rotating I think a Z wobble would be the result of something out of square with the insert or the body to cap fitment. I have dissected mine and took measurements of slop and fitness. There are issues I am bringing to their attention. I will be heading over there shortly the last of the back order is ready. I have sent Troy a link to this thread and will be discussing these issues to him along with some refinement recommendations.Good thought BB. The thing is, how do you measure for parallel planes? I mean, you'd have to measure the angle of the mouth's plane created after the cut with the flat end mill and measure the angle of the plane created by the datum on the shoulder the bearing rested against. I have no idea how to do that.

What I can say is this: take a finished piece and measure overall case length with your calipers. Now spin that case in the calipers with your fingers applying slight pressure to the sliding jaw to hold it in place... notice how the reading fluctuates up and down a little bit? I always attributed that to the unevenness of the head / lettering stamped in there creating a not-level surface / run out even. But maybe some of that is attributable to Z wobble in the cut? Just enough to result in an uneven chamfer/debur?

I can also say this: there's a huge difference in the fit between the flat end mill cutter's shaft inside the trim it body, and the fit of the 3-way cutter's shaft in that same body. No comparison, really; the flat end mill is nice and tight and I can't feel any perceptible side to side movement within the body. However, with the 3-way the thing slides in and out with no resistance, and I definitely can feel side to side movement. Maybe when that set screw locks it down its cocked? Maybe as the thing spins, the angle of that cock changes?

Again I'm no mechanical engineer so I could be completely out in left field here. I'm just toying with various idears based on what I'm observing.

Looking forward to any thoughts Troy et al has. And please reiterate with them I'm more than willing to test any changes/new designs/fixes they want to make.

Jon Road King
10-28-2014, 11:07 AM
When they are chucked in my mill, there is no comparison between the CTS trimmer and the Trim-it trimmer. That CTS trimmer is rock solid, no wobble at all. But dang that Trim-it body wobbles all over the place.

Tell you what though, the cutter inside of the Trim-it is rock solid... paints a beautiful picture of uniformity when viewed through the window while running...

[edit] Thought just occurred to me and I can't test it at work... but I bet BOTH set screws (body set screw on the cutter), and the bushing set screw are probably working against each other to make the issue worse. If there is enough play in both screws, prior to tightening, then they could be stacking an offset together. Anyone want to try offsetting the set screws opposite each other? (Say put the cutter screw at 6 o'clock and the bushing screw at 12 o'clock?) Might be why some folks are getting better results... perhaps some of us have both screws on the same side, but others have screws on opposite sides purely by accident?

I'll try it on my mill tonight and see what it looks like if nobody does before me...

ar15barrels
10-28-2014, 1:28 PM
Are you guys spinning the brass so it turns with the bushing or is the bushing spinning along with the brass?

Well, the bushing is mounted in a ball bearing so it's hard to turn the brass while you are PUSHING AGAINST THE BUSHING and NOT have the bushing turn with the brass.
It's not like a Giraud power trimmer where the cutter spins and the housing is fixed.

CSACANNONEER
10-28-2014, 3:23 PM
Well, the bushing is mounted in a ball bearing so it's hard to turn the brass while you are PUSHING AGAINST THE BUSHING and NOT have the bushing turn with the brass.
It's not like a Giraud power trimmer where the cutter spins and the housing is fixed.

See what happens when I don't think things through. While I have two Trim-its for the reloading club, I haven't used them yet. I use my old Lyman or my Giraud for personal use. I should have looked at the Trim-it before I asked.

Jon Road King
10-28-2014, 6:15 PM
Bingo. Just got done messing around with it on my mill and in the end all I did was jammed a piece of paper between the bushing and the body, opposite the set screw and cuts are WAY more even, with no spinning. Ill post some pics shortly...

Just 5 quick cases... sorry for the crappy phone pics... but much more even. Still a slight egg in the cut but no more than my Lyman prep station if I ain't careful.

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/ostler13/Mobile%20Uploads/20141028_191244_zpsimsp2mpd.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/ostler13/Mobile%20Uploads/20141028_191304_zpstibc7ex2.jpg

Seaweed02
10-28-2014, 8:02 PM
I haven't had the chance to use mine yet, even though I ordered bushings for 9 different calibers. Mine came with two cutters. One in the body, and the one pictured in this thread which is the 3 way cutter. If I have this problem also, and just choose to use the original cutter and later chamfer and debur by hand, will it be better in that capacity? Because if it is then it is still worth it to me. What do you guys think?

BigBronco
10-28-2014, 8:44 PM
I haven't had the chance to use mine yet, even though I ordered bushings for 9 different calibers. Mine came with two cutters. One in the body, and the one pictured in this thread which is the 3 way cutter. If I have this problem also, and just choose to use the original cutter and later chamfer and debur by hand, will it be better in that capacity? Because if it is then it is still worth it to me. What do you guys think?

IMO as a flat cutter the system is unbeatable. The three way cutting head is a new development for them. I have had fairly good luck with it when set up properly. Yes it is time consuming to get it set up just right. I have trimmed about 100 30-06 cases with an acceptable chamfer and deburr.

No, I am not saying things could not be better with the three way cutter. They are listening to us and working to improve it.

Keep in mind we are some of the first in the country to get these.

Eljay
10-28-2014, 8:52 PM
Definitely feel like a beta tester, but it's nice knowing I can go to the flat system if I have to. I think the next caliber I trim that uses boat tail bullets I'll try the flat cutter just to see how necessary the 3 way trimmer even is under those circumstances. It'll probably be a couple of weeks before I need to trim any more brass though.

thenodnarb
10-28-2014, 8:59 PM
Definitely feel like a beta tester, but it's nice knowing I can go to the flat system if I have to. I think the next caliber I trim that uses boat tail bullets I'll try the flat cutter just to see how necessary the 3 way trimmer even is under those circumstances. It'll probably be a couple of weeks before I need to trim any more brass though.

Boat tails should be fine. I just did this test yesterday or the day before. I trimmed with the trim-it, then tumbled. There was no need to debur, as the tumbling removed any rough edges. I was loading flat base bullets. Without a chamfer, the bullets were seated a little rough, and possibly went in crooked on a couple of them. I had to put just the lightest chamfer with the lyman tool on them. 1/2 turn. Then they all seated much easier and straight. With a Boat tail, even that wouldn't be necessary.

Eljay
10-29-2014, 2:59 PM
Thats what I was thinking given earlier reports, but good to get confirmation, thanks. I'll definitely try that sometime.

BigJ
10-30-2014, 7:44 AM
Update added to my first post.

BigJ
11-14-2014, 10:01 AM
First post updated again.

Eargasm
11-14-2014, 7:03 PM
Well, shoot. I've been sitting on my trimmer and deburr/chamfer cutter until I can pick up a reasonably priced drill press on Craigslist. Hopefully my experience is different.

Thanks for the review.

dwtt
11-15-2014, 6:36 AM
Now the ugly:
There are two show stoppers you need to be aware of before you decide to buy and/or use your Trim-It.

1) I am no stranger to set screws, their use, my strength etc... and yet I still managed to strip both the cutter holder and adjustment holder set screw holes in the body cap. Yes, its entirely possible this is 100% my fault and you will have no problem. However, I know for me, and given my experience, I've never had something strip so easily. IMHO the line between too loose and stripped with the Trim It is razor thin.

I've stripped threads in 6000 and 7000 series Al parts and the solution each time was to insert a Heli-coil thread insert. They don't cost much and the fix is permanent.

BigBronco
11-15-2014, 7:28 AM
I will soon be working to set up chuck to mount mine on a motor base. I have an old champion juicer that should put out a good rpm.

klewan
11-15-2014, 10:27 AM
They need to drill an undersize hole in the body and then ream the hole to get an accurate sized hole. Until they do that, it's either shim the offset away, or drill and tap another hole 180 degrees opposite from the original one, and then adjust the screws to center the cutter...same kind of idea as Jon Road King mentioned earlier.

Myself, I'm going to DIY the Forester 3 way trimmer head. Just need to cut a .125" slot for the cutter blades in a chunk of 3/4" rod stock, drill and tap for the set screws, and grind some HSS cut off blades to make the actual cutter blades. Holes in front for the pilot, hole in the back for the trimmer shaft and it's done. About $1 for the set screws, everything else I already have.

If you have a small lathe, you can make your own Heli-coils. Say you strip a 6mm threaded hole. Look up the next larger SAE screw, 5/16". Drill and tap your stripped hole for the 5/16" bolt, then cut the head off a 5/16" bolt, chuck it in the lathe and drill and tap the center of it for the 6mm bolt. Cut it to length and blue locktite it in. Last time I did this was a cylinder hold down stud stripped out of a Kawasaki 500 triple. It was 8mm and found the SAE bolt that would fit and machined that. You don't have to buy the special drills and taps that Heli-coils use, so lots cheaper, and you already have what you need if you're tooled up...

ar15barrels
11-16-2014, 12:11 AM
They need to drill an undersize hole in the body and then ream the hole to get an accurate sized hole. Until they do that, it's either shim the offset away, or drill and tap another hole 180 degrees opposite from the original one, and then adjust the screws to center the cutter...

If you have a lathe, its also possible to bore out the hole and then press in an appropriate sized drill bushing.
This will give you a much tighter fit and correct the misalignment assuming you chuck the trimmer body straight during boring.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8491a664/=um7lrc

klewan
11-16-2014, 10:31 AM
If you have a lathe, its also possible to bore out the hole and then press in an appropriate sized drill bushing.
This will give you a much tighter fit and correct the misalignment assuming you chuck the trimmer body straight during boring.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8491a664/=um7lrc

Yep, more than one way to fix it; just have to be tooled up to do something with precision....

ChamberCheck
11-16-2014, 5:39 PM
Hmmm. It kind of looks like I may have "jumped the gun" in getting the second generation tool...don't know, but that's the way I'm reading this thread. I originally bought it with the anticipation of starting to reload some time down the road. Did I waste my money?

Or, can it be used like the original too to trim only? Sorry for the questions, but I don't have the experience to draw from yet. Thanks and regards.

Dave

Eljay
11-16-2014, 5:58 PM
It comes with both the old and the new cutting head. I'm thinking I'm going to use the flat cutting head for most applications since it's clean enough it doesn't need deburring (especially after a wet tumble) and a chamfer isn't important if you're loading boat tail bullets. I'll only fight with the three way cutter if it seems worthwhile.

ChamberCheck
11-17-2014, 9:07 AM
Thanks Eljay. Like I said, I really haven't had a chance to look at it...let alone use it. But, at least your reply tells me that I can still use it as a regular trimmer...until a good workaround for the 3 way head gets dialed in. Thanks for the help.

Dave

BigJ
11-17-2014, 9:09 AM
+1 What Eljay said. I think you'll be more than pleased with the results off the flat cutter.

Rbutler
12-17-2014, 3:41 PM
any updates to the tri cutter?

BigBronco
12-17-2014, 6:05 PM
any updates to the tri cutter?

About a month ago I had a chat with Troy at Trim-it about the short comings in the tolerances for three way cutting. I have been told last week the batch in progress has had the tolerances tightened up. I will be getting one to try out and see the differences.

There are some changes coming with the new year on their marketing. First there will be a general price increase. :(

Next you will not be buying the unit with everything included. They are moving to an ala-carte type ordering. Buying the body separate from the cutters and ordering the inserts that you need.

This being said I still have a couple flat cutting trim-It trimmers left for any one that wants to beat the new year price increase, and the last few at the group buy price.