View Full Version : IMR 4064 and Powder Measure Hate Me!
Psychbiker
10-12-2014, 7:22 AM
I traded my Varget for 4064 because it's better for my M1A I'm loading it for.
I was able to accurate drop varget in a Hornady Powder Measure.
IMR 4064 however, not so accurate. I was getting .5 grain differences. Put the baffle in and that helped a little. When I raise the arm to drop it would catch I'm guessing on a the stick IMR Powder, if raised slowly its fine but if I raise it fast it will drop too much.
Anyone have any tips on 4064 in a Hornady powder measure? I'd really hate to have to use the Auto Charger as it takes forever PLUS that thing seems to always be off too. :eek:
highpower790
10-12-2014, 7:27 AM
Unless your abilties are greater than your rifle ,a .3-.5 gr difference wont make a difference,especially in service rifle.
Psychbiker
10-12-2014, 7:31 AM
Unless your abilties are greater than your rifle ,a .3-.5 gr difference wont make a difference,especially in service rifle.
Serious? Honestly asking too. I see peoples load data and they mention they accurately to the 10th like 42.3 grains. It seems like 41.7 and 42.8 would be a big difference. No?
highpower790
10-12-2014, 7:36 AM
Serious!All I shoot are service rifles.Once I set my powder measure, I drop every charge ,and dont look back.
From a competitors(20yrs) point of view and one that has been mentored by a retired marine twice in charge of the Marine Corps rifle team at Quantico...would you rather shoot more or spend more time reloading?
As a side note my RCBS powder measure gives me a +/- .2-.3,and I use Varget in evrything!
Serious? Honestly asking too. I see peoples load data and they mention they accurately to the 10th like 42.3 grains. It seems like 41.7 and 42.8 would be a big difference. No?
Did a little back of the envelope calculating...
From the Sierra manual, 168 SMK using 4064:
41.5 grains 2600fps muzzle velocity
43.4 grains 2700fps muzzle velocity
So a change in charge of 1.9 grains gives a 100fps velocity change. This leads to a half grain of change giving about a 26fps velocity change.
Comparing 2650fps muzzle velocity to 2676fps usingthe PCB ballistics program with 168 SMK, I found a difference in bullet drop of .1 inch at 200 yards, .4 inch at 300 yards, 2.4 inches at 600 yards.
Edit: This is with a zero at 100 yards.
YMMV, but this suggests that seemingly big errors in powder measurement don't lead to similarly large errors on the target.
Tim
rm1911
10-12-2014, 7:53 AM
Unless your abilties are greater than your rifle ,a .3-.5 gr difference wont make a difference,especially in service rifle.
This.
BLR81
10-12-2014, 12:41 PM
If your using a single stage press, just drop short and trickle the last few tenths of a grain.
For practice loads I don't see much difference in loads varying +/- .3 grains even out to 500 meters. But for piece of mind, I measure all my match loads down to .1 grain knowing that my scale has an accuracy of +/1 .1 already.
8mmFMJ
10-12-2014, 4:23 PM
I've demilled a lot of surplus ammo, they vary by more then .5 grain...
klewan
10-12-2014, 6:07 PM
You guys are not going to help sell more of those $300+ Chargemasters..I asked a couple of months ago why they bought electric measures and it was because it was more accurate. I always thought it was an answer in search of a problem..
rdfact
10-12-2014, 7:37 PM
If your using a single stage press, just drop short and trickle the last few tenths of a grain.
For practice loads I don't see much difference in loads varying +/- .3 grains even out to 500 meters. But for piece of mind, I measure all my match loads down to .1 grain knowing that my scale has an accuracy of +/1 .1 already.
^^^ I would agree.
I have loaded with 4064 using the manual scoop method and using the Hornady powder measure. Setting the powder measure to drop slightly low charges and a trickler to top it off was faster than scooping.
As far as little thin sticks go, 4064 throws quite well on a Chargemaster. Varget is the worst in my experience.
smoothy8500
10-13-2014, 12:53 AM
When loading for "Across the Course" I don't worry about the load variation for my M1A. I have not noticed a change in accuracy even at the 600yd line when I quit trickling up all my loads. I just set the powder drop and check every 20th round.
micro911
10-13-2014, 8:59 AM
I also use M-1A for the service rifle matches. I measure every load with my powder scale. I load within .1 grain. It is kind of time consuming, but my standard deviation is less than 10 that way and my load is very accurate. With my bolt gun, I constantly get less than 1/2 minute groups.
carlsbad
10-13-2014, 12:50 PM
The unspoken variable here is yardage. Assuming you are shooting less than 100 yards, you'll see no difference.
The powder measure and muzzle velocity becomes very important when you go out to 400 yards or more. But if you're doing that you need to be weighing your charge, not dropping it.
--Jerry
carlsbad
10-13-2014, 12:51 PM
You guys are not going to help sell more of those $300+ Chargemasters..I asked a couple of months ago why they bought electric measures and it was because it was more accurate. I always thought it was an answer in search of a problem..
4064 doesn't meter well in the chargemaster. It will meter, but the long grains will result in occasional heavy loads that have to be recycled. --Jerry
BLR81
10-14-2014, 11:06 PM
4064 doesn't meter well in the chargemaster. It will meter, but the long grains will result in occasional heavy loads that have to be recycled. --Jerry
I drop a lot of 4064 in my chargemaster, and the largest variance I've ever had was +0.3 grains and it never drops short. I have made the changes to the programming to speed up the drop and I use the straw in the drop tube.
Before the beep and before displaying the cartridge count it will show the weight target, but after it will show the actual charge dropped. If I'm loading for a match I'll pinch out a small amount from the pan and reweigh to get the weight exact, but for practice I'll usually ignore overcharges under the 0.3. But then in practice I'm also using seconds and over runs or blemished bullets because when practicing I'm more concerned about breathing, trigger control, and other marksmanship skills then variations in POI over 1 MOA at 500 meters.
Pauliedad
10-15-2014, 1:42 AM
The straw and how far out it sticks is the key to happiness with the Chargemaster.
IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 both meter perfectly with the straw just barely poking out. The inside of the "V" cut almost inside the metal tube.
When working with flake or more granular powders I bring the straw out a tad more. Figured this out by accident but I rarely have to pinch back using this system.
That all said, Varget meters so well in the Dillon powder drop that I will only use it in the Chargemaster when doing load development of small batches.
There was an article in Handloader Magazine a while back which talked about the difference between trickling and not trickling. It took the position that trickling doesn't make a huge difference.
I still trickle, but... meh.
My suggestion, by the way, is to just trickle. Then it doesn't matter what you throw.
krwada
10-15-2014, 7:43 PM
A couple of tenths is probably OK for service rifle shooting.
For the precision stuff, I undercharge and trickle in to +/- 0.1 grain. This is for the precision bolt rifle.
The other thing you need to be aware of is that IMR4064 is a stick powder ... and it is a pretty long thick stick to boot. You need proper technique to reliably drop IMR4064.
Usually; I throw the charge with some amount of authority ... (this will break any sticks that get jammed in the throw); then I lightly double tap on recharge to make sure the powder is properly settled in for the next charge.
foxtrotuniformlima
10-15-2014, 7:54 PM
I use the Lee Perfect Powder Measure for IMR4064 and find it is +/- 0.2 at most. Since my load is OCW optimized in that range, for 99% of the stuff I load it's GTG.
But, I'd be happier with dual RCBS Chargemasters :D
Switch to WW 748 if you want to be more precise in metering.
I've found with my RCBS Uniflow is consistant as long as I move the handle the same each time.
3RDGEARGRNDRR
10-21-2014, 6:23 PM
if your throws are fast and slow, try to find a good consistent rhythm.
occasionally you will get a stick cuaght in the rotor, and have to power crunch through that, sometimes, you will end up roll crimping your brass and get powder everywhere.
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