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View Full Version : SEEKING ADVICE ON MY 30-06 RELOADS, HELP KEEP ME SAFE!


ansan12001
09-25-2014, 8:24 PM
I have reloaded for 30-06, but this is my first venture in casting for such a heavy projectile. The 30-06 cast bullet is from lee mold TL309-230-5R, the actual final product weighs 232 grains, I water quench and powder coat, this is recycled range lead. Winchester large rifle primer, IMR 4350. I have used listed OAL, no crimp, bullets sized to .309. I have attached a picture of the load chart from latest Lee Manuel, see green highlight. With new workups I always write the powder grain weight on the bullet itself for safety. There is no direct reference to this bullet weight in the Lee Manuel. What I did was cut back the min/max charge from 220 Jacketed bullet, please see picture for the actual, adjusted min/max charge I used. I have worked up 20 rounds, with powder chargers between my min/max. I have used Jacketed comparisons for P.C. bullets with other calibers with no problems, but I am concerned about the higher pressures with this heavy bullet. I would appreciate any advice from experience reloaders, thank you.

I was planning to shoot this out of my 30-06 T.C. Dimension bolt action and perhaps the M1 Garand.....Initially, this is for sub 100 yards plinking but if bullet works well will use for longer distances, thus running at peak pressures if the Powder Coat holds up.

thenodnarb
09-26-2014, 8:08 AM
From what I have experienced so far, the powder coat, if done properly, will hold up fine, and prevent leading, but your accuracy will drop off once you start reaching 2200-2400 fps. This is a limit for the lead itself with the twist rate of modern rifles. It depends on your alloy, but the harder the better when it comes to high velocity rifle rounds, even powder coated. This is why most folks use heavy projectiles like the one you have. You still can make the most of the caliber but keep the velocity down in the realistic range for lead.
The lyman manual has loads published for lead projectiles but they keep the velocity more in the 1800fps range. I would not even try your loads for the Garand. They need to be downloaded even more for the Garand I think. There are some folks out there who have experimented with the garand and lead bullets, and came up with some safe loads. For a bolt gun, you will probably be fine, but I would start with a powder charge even lower than your lowest. I might go as low as 42 grains and work up in 1/2 grain increments. Obviously check your velocity each time and make sure there are no obstructions in the barrel on the low side of the charge weights.

Again, with lead bullets, even with PC, you will achieve better accuracy with very modest velocity. 2000ish + or - 10%

thenodnarb
09-26-2014, 8:18 AM
After checking the lyman book, I do not see any listings for IMR-4350 for 30-06 or any of the magnums either. It may not be the best powder for this application. Some powders don't do well at lower pressures like you get with lead projectiles.
Also, I'm seeing very few charge weights that get as high as 40 grains, Most of them start at high 20s or low 30s and work up 10 grains or so. The heaviest lyman bullet is listed at 210 grains and the highest velocity it is listing is with 5744, 38 grains, with a velocity of 2300ish. I don't know what IMR-4350 compares to, but I think you might need to start much lower, around 30 grains. Might want to check out the cast boolits forum. Sometime might have a similar recipe to try, or a reason that you shouldn't with that powder.
Good luck.

Jeff213
09-28-2014, 4:28 PM
I have been unable to get this specific bullet to group out of my 1-10 .30-06. The gas checks fall off, and it patterns like a 12ga with buckshot at 50 yards with every powder I have tested.

ansan12001
09-28-2014, 6:29 PM
I have been unable to get this specific bullet to group out of my 1-10 .30-06. The gas checks fall off, and it patterns like a 12ga with buckshot at 50 yards with every powder I have tested.

I am not an expert caster, but I didn't think this mold was designed to use a gas check. This is a boattail design, I never seen a boattail with a gas check....Try using w.w. lead and powdercoat....

I just casted the much more manageable 160 grain 30 cal bullet from lee mold I am not expecting great results as it is designed for a gas check.....update hopefullly tomorrow....

koehn,jim
09-29-2014, 6:01 AM
I have been getting great
results with the 314299 at 210 grains and 33 grains of h4895. I believe you are driving the bullets way to fast. If the bullet does not have a gas check you should be down around 1500-1800 fps and no more. I would suggest getting the Lyman cast bullet handbook or go on Castboolits and get some help with load info. You should be starting low and working up. I would not shoot those as they have way to much powder in them. What are you sizing the bullets at.

OldShooter32
09-29-2014, 6:05 AM
You'll probably do better with it sized to .310 or .311 with lead bullets.

rsrocket1
09-29-2014, 7:21 AM
I agree with Jim. You are probably trying to drive these cast bullets way too fast. Pull the bullets, reclaim the powder and save it for jacketed loads. You should start at about 1700 fps and maybe work up to 2000 fps using a slow pistol powder like 2400 or maybe a fast rifle powder like Reloader 7. The guys at Castboolits are trying to achieve a reliable 1900 fps with 2 MOA accuracy using Powder Coat. If that's their goal, you can see that your hopes may be a little excessive.

Have you tried subsonic loads with those big bullets? I know they won't cycle the M1, but they can be very accurate to 100 yards, hard hitting and fun to shoot.

koehn,jim
09-29-2014, 9:57 AM
I also re-read and notice that you want to use this bullet in the Garand I strongly advise against it you re over the pressure curve for this weapon. Cast bullets work very well in the Garand but not at those pressures. I use a 200 grain cast with 33 grains of H4895 and it works fine. I second the idea of pulling the bullets and starting over. If you go to the castboolits web site and use the search function you should find some good loads. Cast bullets are a good way to have fun and save money but they take very specific load info.

rm1911
09-29-2014, 4:17 PM
If you want to shoot it in the garand get an adjustable gas plug and turn it so no gas escapes. No, the gun won't cycle but who cares. It's practice rounds. Perhaps it could be adjusted to cycle but ether way if you're shooting 4350 you better have the adjustable plug. 4350 is way too slow a powder. Nasty things in store for the OP rod.

If you can get hold of trail boss you might be pleasantly surprised. Or maybe unique. You'll get about 12-1300 fps with TB (see imr's website for the TB formula) and maybe close to that with 10-12 gr unique.

ansan12001
09-29-2014, 7:38 PM
Hello my fellow Calgunners, I appreciate all the advice, here is what happened at the range today:

The goal today was to see what this P.C. hard lead cast 30 cal would do in the bolt action. I started at 46gn of 4350 mainly because I know of others that are having alot of success with PC bullets, to heed the warnings of some of you, I didnt go all the way to 52gn, I kept it to 48gn. Compared to the federal 155gn factory ammo I started with, these cast 235gn bullets shot hard with no signs of overpressure such as flatten primers, the cases looked very normal. Looking down the bore, everything was nice and shiny. I have had numerous back surgeries which affects my balance, my accurately will never be great shotting standing, but at 40 yrds I was within 2-3 inches, good enough for my needs. For the future, I expect to drop to 44-48gn as that will likely suit my very obvious plicking duties, although I like the good recoil.

I have 8lbs of Herco, and would like to use this as it has a similar burn rate as Unique, does anyone have any min/max, oal, etc for Unique or Herco.

Please see my other post on my experience of using Herco on the .460v revolver.


As far as the Garand, for now shooting this will be shelved. I appreciate everyones input, one thing I can say the TC Dimenstion bolt action rifle was the best 500.00 I ever spent!

klewan
09-29-2014, 9:30 PM
OP, that Lee 230 grain was designed to be shot in 300 BLK as a sub-sonic round. And you're correct, no gas check, because it was to run at 1100 FPS or less. You're the first one I've seen using it in a 30-06!

rsrocket1
09-30-2014, 9:06 AM
Well, I'm surprised that you went against the recommendations here and shot the bullets anyway.
I'm even more glad that you were successful. The loads would not have been dangerous, just that I was guessing that pushing cast lead bullets that hard would have resulted in poor accuracy and maybe leading. I thought you were looking for 100 yard 1" accuracy. I did not know you were looking for good recoil and 40 yard soda can accuracy. That load will certainly work for you. Congratulations. Where would we be if it weren't for people who like to experiment?

Herco and Unique will pretty much behave the same way in the 30-06, that is, it will burn completely by the time the bullet is about 1-1/2" into the barrel. Those powders are ultra fast compared to rifle powders and will build up to high pressures (even for a 30-06) at around 20 grains. At 10 grains, they are perfect for low velocity/low recoil loads for cast bullets. I've run 110-200g cast bullets with Unique in a .308 up to 15 grains and they shot safely. However, accuracy went away at the high end. At 10 grains, I could get sub 1" groups at 50 yards, but the recoil and sound is like a 22 mag, probably not what you want.

If those loads work for you, maybe you should stick with 4350 and work down to see if accuracy improves. If not, you're good to go. If 2-3" @ 40 yards is satisfactory, you've found your load!

Good luck.