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Pirhett
09-21-2014, 11:42 AM
Hello I am new to this forum and also in search of starting to reload. I have spent a lot of time looking everything up but still needed some input from experienced reloaders. I shoot mainly 223 and 9mm but will most likely only reload 223 for a while. I want to get the lee single stage breech challenger press kit but not sure if i should just piece together my own kit. If you guys have any opinions regarding on a budget reloading for beginners please feel free to share, Im all ears. Thank you for taking the time to look at this post and I look forward to enjoying my time on this forum.

stilly
09-21-2014, 11:57 AM
Let the GAMES BEGIN!

Welcome to the Calguns reloading forum!

Put on a seatbelt bro cause you are in for a ride.

In a nutshell though, if you shoot a LOT, start with a turret such as the Lee Classic turret (4 hole with iron base)

If you shoot not a lot (less then 532 rounds a month or so) or if your .223 is a bolt gun, then consider a single stage such as the one you mentioned, but look to get the classic cast when you can. I just like my presses to be iron, maybe aluminum will work for you, but I prefer iron myself.

I think you should do TWO things.

1. Buy a book on reloading and read it (not the whole book, that would take years, just the part that tells about how to reload) like Modern Reloading (LOTS OF RECIPES!) or Lyman 49th edition.

2. Read the stickies in this forum to see the things you might need.

3. Have an open mind.

4. I said two things huh. See what I mean about having an open mind? Consider more than two things...

5. If you get a digital scale, I say pick a Gemini 20 since it WORKS, and is pretty damn accurate and can be had for about $20 from Amazon.

6. People are split on kits vs piecing together your own. PERSONALLY, I like to piecemeal my stuff because I am a diva that likes to shop, but SOME kits are good buys, RCBS has been hitting very close to that, even though I do not care for a rock chucker, they ARE nice presses and MOST of the stuff you get in the kit you WILL use, but it sucks that you can not swap out a Lee Classic Turret for that RC... Maybe RCBS would do that if you asked nicely. (lol, j/k)


Here is what it comes down to for presses though,

IF you shoot up to 532 rounds a month, then you prolly need to start on a single stage.
IF you shoot up to 1288 rounds a month, then you prolly should start with a Lee Classic Turret (I say this SPECIFIC turret because while ALL single stage presses are the same and go at the same speed, THIS is the FASTEST turret you can buy and you can crank out ammo on it faster then the RCBS or the Lyman or Redding or Hollywood and changing calibers in a FLASH is cheap- about $15 plus die set)

IF you shoot more than 1289 rounds a month, then consider a progressive press AFTER you own a turret or single stage press for a few months (so you learn things and know what to look for and how things should be before you crank out 100 bad rounds). A GOOD starting progressive press COULD very well be a Dillon RL550B but it is a MANUAL indexing turret/progressive and I personally do not care for a MANUAL progressive, THAT is not a REAL progressive in my book, but it costs only about $750 fully decked out but can pump out about 400-600 rounds an hour... I warn you though, not all things can be carried over to that press and I am unsure how fast you can change calibers on it but if money is no obstacle for you, feel free to blow it all on this later on.
Here is Suzanne Summers using it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0__OViMcaA&feature=youtu.be Okay I am kidding, you want a progressive with an auto indexing action if you are gonna be wasting your money on an overpriced blue machine... Sorry, I tried to turn a new leaf, but it just aint happening. Besides, ANYONE that can afford a blue machine will buy an XL650 because they have $2000 that they don't know what to do with and their friends err, suckers that they hang with or get info from TOLD them to get a dillon... Shame on me. Dillon is NOT the best, nor are they the ENDALL solution for everyone because some folks love their Hornady LNL and I have not chosen really, maybe I will get an RL 550B to try out and then give it away a month later after making a mountain of ammo. Ya never know though. But really, if you are gonna go progressive, then you should choose either a Hornady LNL AP or a Dillon XL650, both will cost you a lot of money, but it is a decision that you need to make when you are ready to step up to a progressive. OH yes, And then there is the Lee Loadmaster or Pro-1000. I have a Loadmaster and it is sitting in the box, for the past 8 months and it was ready to go. I picked it up for $150... AND there are also guys that have been single stage their entire life. Nothing wrong with that either. Those guys are crawling over the earth but they can tell you every little inch of what is on the ground and how it will affect your shot placement...

As for turret presses, they have different roles. SOME are built for speed (as they should be!) like the Lee Classic Turret with 4 holes, and others are built to be a multiheaded single stage (as they should be!) like the T-MAG, RCBS, T-7, Hollywood, Etc. This class of turret is built STRONG to allow you to have multiple dies and then you can just switch to the die you want to use to do the job, like you can set up .223 resizing and maybe .224 resizing die, primer pocket swaging, .355 bullet resizing and maybe even several other dies and all you ever need to do is rotate to the die you want to use and you are setup. I have a single stage press, a Jrr3 that I bought for $50 from my local gun store, Bullseye Sport in Riverside, it was used but it works hella good at resizing lead pills, derimming .22lr shells and resizing my .223 for the X-die (brass prep). I love it, but I can only do ONE of those functions at a time unless I unscrew the die and swap out for another die. That is why I am looking for a T-7 or Hollywood turret to replace this single stage so that I can have 7 dies loaded up and ready to work for me, and then when I am ready to reload, I can use my Lee Classic Turret to pump out the ammo. I did 900 rounds one weekend in about 4 hours just cranking away. Now I got a half full ammo box of .45 acp...

And keep this in mind, you can ALWAYS find a need for a single stage press, mainly resizing or light swaging, bullet resizing for cast pills, but you will NOT really have any reason to have a progressive press on your bench UNLESS you just want to make ammo. Also, you can get a single stage press for $35+ used on Fleabay or Craigslist or elsewhere... You can get a Lee Classic Turret for around $115 or less (fsreloading.com/ Titanreloading.com) and if you decide that you make too much money and do not want to craft your own rounds, then you are only in it for a lil bit of cash, but if you get a progressive, well, that is money spent and a LOT of money spent, the 550 I think starts at around $450ish so there ya have it in a nutshell.

I have edited this post damn near 15 times now and nobody has even replied to the thread... Wow yall out to church or something?
Imma keep on editing until I get bored...

Oh damn, I did not see this coming, I am hungry, I am heading out to lunch. Have fun and GL with your decision...

ironhorse1
09-21-2014, 2:00 PM
Just start with the basics and as you learn you can always update your equipment.

Just as Stilly has listed.

Buy and read a manual. The whole manual, cover to cover.

A single stage press is a good choice for a beginner.

Other must have items.

A scale,calipers,dies,shell holders,case trimmer, especially for rifle rounds and a mentor if there is an experienced reloader in your area.

If you want just want a basic scale I will donate an extra that I have.

Once you have read a manual, then, you will know enough to start.

irh

CGT80
09-21-2014, 2:02 PM
Cast iron presses are nice. The dillon 550 is aluminum, but it is well built. I have the cheapest single stage aluminum press that lee makes, and it is just looking for an excuse to break. It is also flimsy.

A turret is a good idea. My understanding is that with the lee turret, you can move the shell to the next die and complete each step so that you handle the brass less. Or, maybe the head rotates. It is similar to a dillon 550, which can be used like a single stage press, but won't be quite as easy to learn, and it won't be nearly as cheap.

Single stage is just way too slow. I loaded up some rifle ammo on my hollywood 12 position turret press today. Stilly is right, the hollywood could be spun around so that the next die could be used and then another to compete the load, but it is built like a tank and is better used as a single stage that doesn't require changing out dies all the time.

I was very disappointed in the two lee pro 1000 progressive presses I tried to use. They were touchy and fragile. My bench has a dillon 550 and 1050 on it. The hornady presses looked good but I haven't used one.

Hand priming works well on some cases. The 35 Remington cases I primed with a lee hand tool were easy. My 30-30 or 45 colt cases not so much. 223 was a PITA. I have an RCBS strip priming press that is bench mounted. It works but has some drawbacks. The tube fed version may work better.

I have not used the lee trimmer. The CTS trimmers are $43 or so from ebay and they can be run on a cordless drill or drill press. It is cheap and very fast for 223 and other rifle brass. 9mm brass won't need trimmed.

I like powder throwers that are adjustable. My bench top/single stage powder thrower is an RCBS with a micrometer adjustment. Some lee throwers use discs with different size holes. This limits you. I think some of the lee throwers might be adjustable, so I would look into them if you don't want to spring for the RCBS. My other 8 throwers are for the dillon presses, and they work well.

Pistol ammo is faster to load and is well worth while. I run hornady one shot lube for pistol and dillon lube for rifle. You can skip lube for pistol if you use a carbide sizing die, but lube is slick.

Like stilly said, read a book and read the forums. You tube videos can help, if they know what they are doing. You have to weed out the good info from the bad. Find a reloading buddy or a calguns reloading class, as it is easier to learn with a mentor.

You will need a way to clean your brass as well. I use tumblers with corn cob and polish and I also use stainless steel pins in a rock tumbler. You could wipe the brass off with a rag if you want to go slow and dirt cheap. Some people just wash the brass in citric acid or dawn soap rather than tumbling.

CGT80
09-21-2014, 2:03 PM
Harbor freight 6" digital calipers are great and cheap when on sale. The HF 4" calipers were junk when I looked at them. They were so bad, I didn't even have to buy them to see they were junk.

klewan
09-21-2014, 5:14 PM
I started with the Lee 35th Anniversary kit, which is now over 50th anniversary. I'd go with the Cast Iron Turret from Lee, price out what you get in the kit versus buying it piece by piece. It was about 20% cheaper in the kit when I bought.


Lots of peeps have trouble with the Lee scale, that it takes too long to stabilize. I just barely touch the beam once it's moving, slow it down and once it's equal swings up and down around zero, it's good to go. Start it swinging with half inch excursions, it will take some time to stop.

Lee hand priming tool works quite well. Not sure which powder measure they include with the kits these days. Mine came with the Perfect, and it worked with rifle brass. I think the Auto Disc Pro is better for 223, that's more like a pistol round.

Capybara
09-21-2014, 5:54 PM
Three words:

Calguns Reloading Clinic.

Strafer
09-21-2014, 5:55 PM
Howdy from Sacramento area.

I started reloading a year ago. I reload .223 rem, 22-250 rem, and .45acp. I reload the .223 for a sniper bolt gun, a zombie AR, and a high accuracy varmint AR. 22-250 for bolt gun only. .45 for plinking only.

I bought the RCBS rock chucker supreme (single stage) kit on craigslist from a kid who was moving out of state.

The kit had almost everything I needed to start, but I still found myself getting a few things, namely:

1). Harbor Freight 5 lb. rock tumbler (i use lizard bedding from the pet store for media). Works great and is cheap.
2). Harbor Freight 6" calipers
3) bullet comparator
4). Bullet puller
5). Lee trimmer kit (i very quickly upgraded to worlds finest trimmer, the WFT)
6) flash hole uniformer
7) Harbor Freight workbench
8) powder trickler
9). Lee powder dipper set
10). Another reloading manual (lee 49th ed.)
11). Dies for my calibers
12). Composition book to record all my efforts

For volume loading, I use ball type powders like h380 and w748 in the lever operated powder measure that came with the kit. It gets within 0.1 grain very consistently if I use the same motion and speed each time with ball type powders. Works well with pistol powders too, but not stick powders like IMR4198.

For precision loads, I use the beam balance that came with the kit. I use a powder dipper to get close and zero in using a powder trickler.

I have had good luck and also a lot of fun working up loads for my rifles using this setup. I read the book, looked online and watched some videos and went for it.

I wish you the best of luck on your choices.