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View Full Version : Want to get into reloading for my C&R's, ideas/suggestions?


Jimja
12-23-2013, 4:50 PM
I've been thinking about starting to reload ammo for a while. I now have various C&R rifles and pistols and ammo is becoming increasing hard to find for them.

I've been reading some reviews, and have thought about starting with something like the Lee Precision 50th Anniversary Reloading Kit, they are not too expensive, a bit over $100 + shipping. I've bought a few packs of various PPU ammo so I can reload the brass once I shoot it.

Any ideas suggestions?

The ammo I'd eventually like to reload (among others) is:

7.62x54r
7.62 nagant
7.62x25
8×22mm Nambu
.303 British
7.7×58mm
6.5x50
8x56r
.30-06
7.5X54
9×23mm Steyr
9×22mmR
8mm/92
7.92×57mm Mauser
7.5×55mm Swiss (although this one is still relatively cheap/easy to find)

bigbossman
12-23-2013, 5:54 PM
I got started with the Lee kit. Works great, and has everything you need to get started.

Tom-ADC
12-23-2013, 6:03 PM
I started with a single stage RCBS Rockchucker JR loaded everything from .380 to 300 Winchester. I now use a Dillon 550B but if I were starting today Lee would be a good choice. Your smart buying ammo you can reload, I'd also check Starline Brass and if they had my caliber I'd order all I could afford good brass.

stevec223
12-23-2013, 6:04 PM
I dont know much about Lee products , i'm a rcbs guy... If you move your question over to the reloading section theres lots of lee fans to help out... My big concern with your cals listed is availibility... Go to rcbs site and check if dies are still in production or are special order... A big price difference there... Reloading hard to find ammo would is your ticket to shooting more... Reloading is a great hobby, and your search for hard to find items is constant!!! Good luck and enjoy reloading !!! Cheers...

emcon5
12-23-2013, 6:07 PM
Do it.

I'll just drop this here:

http://www.shedracing.net/imgmisc/ar42/k98_ar42.jpg

Same day, same rifle, using a scout scope. Factory Privi on the left, neck sized handloads on the right.

In my opinion, and experience, Lee is the Harbor Freight of reloading tools. That being said, I do like their dies, and if you are reloading for a single rifle in a given caliber, Lee Collet neck sizing dies are a really good way to go. With neck sizing, the case is fire formed to the chamber of your rifle, and the brass does not get worked as much as full length sizing and lasts longer (important for some rifles with generous military chambers, like any .303 Enfield). It also means you don't have to mess with case lube in sizing, something I hate.

The down side, due to variations in chambers, cases fired in one rifle may not chamber in a different rifle of the same caliber. Sometimes they will, but don't count on it.

My recommendation is to buy this:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

Yes, it costs more, but you get a much better scale than the Lee, the powder measures are roughly equal, you also get a manual, the excellent Hand Priming tool (much better feedback in my opinion than using a press to prime), and some other accessories and case prep tools.

I started with a Lee kit, and eventual replaced every component of the kit with RCBS, piece by piece, at much greater expense than had I started with the RCBS kit to begin with.

Beetle Bailey
12-23-2013, 6:58 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=869832

First Orange County clinic of the new year is January 11th. You get hands on experience with reloading equipment so you can try before you buy. I'd recommend it even if I wasn't one of the volunteer assistant instructors :)

ElvenSoul
12-23-2013, 7:02 PM
Someone just gave away some .303 brass!

cruddymutt
12-23-2013, 7:06 PM
For 7.62 Nagant you can use Starline 32-20 brass. Youll lose the gas seal but it shoots just fine. 7.62x25 you can use cut down .223 brass. Its tricky to get the hang of it but once you get it, you got it! 8mm Mauser (7,92x57) brass can be made from 30-06, 270, 25-06 easily.

Milsurp Collector
12-23-2013, 7:17 PM
I have been using my Lee Turret Press since the 1980's and it is still going strong.

http://i44.tinypic.com/snc9k2.jpg

One big big BIG advantage is the turret system if you are going to handload multiple cartridges. You can set up the dies for each cartridge - once - in a turret and then easily switch between cartridges by switching turrets, without having to adjust the dies each time.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j63438.jpg

knucklehead0202
12-23-2013, 7:33 PM
another plus for Lee is that their dies are very easy to use, AND much less expensive than any others. that and the fact they are not special production for all these weird old calibers. I currently reload for 6.5jap, 6.5swede, 6.5carcano, 7.35carcano, 7.5french, 7.5swiss, 7.65argentine, 7.7jap, .303brit, 8mauser, 7mauser, 8x56r, and .308. of those only 2 are not Lee and that's only because 1 set was given to me and the others I bought when Lee were not available. I started with the Lee anniversary kit and have gradually added and swapped pieces of kit. current setup still uses the lee press, dies, and a few other accessories, lyman 1200 digital powder dispenser/scale, lyman universal trimmer, lyman tumbler, rcbs reloading trays, yeah that's pretty much it. hornady dies are also very nice but I still prefer Lee. had some Pacific dies for something I got rid of and they were as fun to use as RCBS dies, which I find to be a pain in the arse, especially when setting up. what it comes down to is buy what you can afford, then develop a sense of what you like and adjust from there. the Lee kit is a great, inexpensive way to get started. the first day I got my kit I loaded 50rds of 8mm-06 and 50rds of 7.65x53 argentine. they all went bang, and while they required tailoring for the particular rifles, shot decently. jump on in! the water is fine!

Enfield47
12-23-2013, 9:08 PM
I started reloading this year and got the Lee classic cast turret and have been very happy with it. I've used it for .30-06, 7.5x55 Swiss, .303 British, plus smaller rounds like .223 and M1 carbine. As Milsup Collector said, it's easy to quickly swap out turret heads and the dies are already set up and adjusted. I use mostly Lee dies, they work great and are less expensive that other brands. However, IIRC brands like RCBS and Hornady do have a lifetime guarantee so that may be worth considering.

Before you buy anything though I would sign up for the class that Beetle Bailey posted. You will get hands on experience with different presses and valuable input from the instructors plus you get to keep the ammo you make.

ckcadavona
12-23-2013, 9:09 PM
Reloading is a separate hobby from shooting. Yes they're related but they're completely separate hobbies. Keep that in mind when you contemplate your decision to reload.

Before buying all the equipment you need to reload every caliber you're interested in, I would recommend that you buy the Lee Hand press or Lee loader to see if you like reloading. Start with 1 caliber and single stage reloading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

emcon5
12-23-2013, 9:27 PM
One big big BIG advantage is the turret system if you are going to handload multiple cartridges. You can set up the dies for each cartridge - once - in a turret and then easily switch between cartridges by switching turrets, without having to adjust the dies each time.
Realistically adjusting the dies is not all that hard. Generally it is "Screw it down until it touches the shell plate". Occasionally you will need to back it off a half turn. The seating depth stays the same unless you change bullets, and if that happens, you need to adjust whether you use a turret or not.

I see you have a Lee Auto Prime, has it broken yet? I had to replace the thumb lever on mine 3 times before I finally gave up and bought the RCBS hand priming tool.

And that is also worth mentioning: I had to buy replacement thumb levers each time the cheap pot-metal broke, before I bought the RCBS tool back around 2001. Last year, I lost a part to it. I was changing between large and small primers, and the seating rod rolled off the back of my workbench and as far as I can tell, vanished. I called RCBS to buy a replacement part, to replace what I lost for the 12 year old tool, and they would not sell me one. They dropped the part in the mail, free of charge, and I had it 2 days later. Dillon is the same way, but Dillon really doesn't apply to a starting reloader.

Dies threads are mostly universal, I use Lee, RCBS, Redding, and Forester in my RCBS Press. Like I mentioned, I do like Lee dies, and generally buy them unless there is a reason not to, like the additional precision of a Forester seating die, or something Lee doesn't make, like a 6.5-06 Neck sizer.

And before you spend money, look on Craigslist and the trader, never know what you might find.

BruinGuy
12-24-2013, 6:57 AM
I got into reloading last year specifically to make ammo for my C&R rifles. The expense and lack of availability of factory ammo was frustrating and kept me from shooting as much as I wanted. It has become a great hobby unto itself and increased my enjoyment of shooting as well.

From your list, you have things that are more exotic (and therefore harder to feed) than I have; with reloading, once you have a little store of brass saved up, you could be shooting those hard to find cartridges every range trip for less than the cost of common factory ammo.

The Lee kit is a great starter, but in the long run you'll never regret buying a pricier kit either...because your total investment in reloading will eventually make that initial investment nearly negligible. I nevertheless recommend that you attend a clinic and try some out so you can be sure you will be happy with your choice. There are clinics all over the state now. Visit the reloading forum here and check out the stickies for more info. You may as well get used to spending a lot of time there... :D

Milsurp Collector
12-24-2013, 2:28 PM
Realistically adjusting the dies is not all that hard. Generally it is "Screw it down until it touches the shell plate". Occasionally you will need to back it off a half turn. The seating depth stays the same unless you change bullets, and if that happens, you need to adjust whether you use a turret or not.

Still, switching the whole set of 3 dies takes just seconds. With a regular single die press even working with just one cartridge, say 9mm Parabellum it means screwing in and screwing out the resizing die, then screwing in and screwing out the expander die, then screwing in and screwing out the bullet seating die, then screwing in and screwing out the taper crimp die. Oy vay! With my Lee Turret Press switching from one die to another means simply rotating the turret. Since I have the older 3-hole turrets I keep the 4th die if needed on a separate turret since the turrets are inexpensive. I reload more than two dozen different types of cartridges and it is very easy to keep everything on turrets and switch them around in seconds.


I see you have a Lee Auto Prime, has it broken yet? I had to replace the thumb lever on mine 3 times before I finally gave up and bought the RCBS hand priming tool.


I have been using the same Lee Auto Prime since the 1980s and it still has all of its original parts. I hand-prime all of my cases with it and it has never broken. I think the RCBS version is very nice and I like the shield feature that isolates the primer tray from the primer that is being inserted. But the tool itself was clearly "inspired" by the Lee Auto-Prime. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

I'm not a brand fanboy. As you can see in the picture I have products from several companies: Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Hornady, and Forster. I buy whatever looks like a good product at a fair price. I am pleased with all of the stuff I have. But I think it is hard to beat Lee in terms of value for the money.

stevied
12-24-2013, 2:42 PM
I've used a lee single stage for years; it's not the nicest but it works well. Reloading components are still somewhat difficult to come by so it works best if you find some local people here or at the range and go in on a group buy of powder unless you want to start with a couple 8lb jugs of powder. If you want to reload the swiss for the k31 make sure you get the redding die set because it is the only one specifically for the k31. Take your time reloading and make sure that you only do it BEFORE you enjoy the company of a few cold ones.

Mutant
12-24-2013, 3:50 PM
Find a friend that knows what he/she is doing. Sit and learn. Not much cost. Read and learn more. Read more after that.. .... Ignore posts like this and all free advice. Then buy, and reload and then buy some more. Inform your closest wives/friends that you now will be upgrading your reloading implements for the rest of your life. Mortgage your house, sell your stocks, find a divorce lawyer and enjoy the crap out of shooting your butt off....

knucklehead0202
12-24-2013, 4:04 PM
also, you can never have too many different kinds of powder, lol. I started with 1 or 2 and now have 4-5, and need more! tried to find a "one-size-fits-all powder but some cartridges/guns just don't like some powders, lol. also, when buying components, buy as much or more than you can afford. I bought what I though was a sh**load of bullets a few years ago and haven't since, now I'm lacking some things and can't currently afford to restock. hopefully soon that will all change.

Enfield47
12-24-2013, 8:54 PM
If you want to reload the swiss for the k31 make sure you get the redding die set because it is the only one specifically for the k31.

Hornady also makes a K31 specific die. I have one on back order but Hornady isn't very expedient about getting their dies in the marketplace. Their dies seem to be OOS more often than other brands. I've been borrowing a RCBS die set for my K31 and it has been working great. I believe that's what Latigo uses too for his K31s.

bigbossman
12-24-2013, 9:27 PM
.............I'm not a brand fanboy. As you can see in the picture I have products from several companies: Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Hornady, and Forster. I buy whatever looks like a good product at a fair price. I am pleased with all of the stuff I have. But I think it is hard to beat Lee in terms of value for the money.

I'm with you. I've been reloading for a couple decades now, and have equipment from just about every reloading manufacturer - some that are long out of business.

The Lee stuff does the job, has a lot of value for the money, and I have personal experience with them standing behind their products should one malfunction or break with normal use.

My Rifle presses are a RCBS jr. 3 and a Lyman turret, and my pistol press is a Lee 1000. I have Redding, RCBS, and Ohaus scales. I use a Lee press mounted priming tool for rifles and it works great.

I bought the Lee 1000 as a kit from Midway sometime in the early 90's. It was my first foray into reloading, and I wanted to hedge my bets in case I didn't stick with it. I figured that if I became a regular reloader, I would upgrade as I went along. Funny thing about the Lee 1000 - once I set it up, I could crank out 300-400 rounds of 45acp in an hour. I used it for years as I shot IPSC, and after about 70,000+ rounds loaded on it I still have it and it is still in production.

Yeah, I've worn out a part or two over the years, but but a call to Lee usually got me free replacements PDQ, for free. That $104 I spent in 1992 or so turned out to be the biggest bang for the buck I've ever gotten out of buying shooting sports equipment.

TRAP55
12-24-2013, 9:44 PM
I'm with Milsurp Collector, I've had a lot of different presses and set ups, but all I use now is the Lee Turret. Swapping turret discs beats the hell out of changing and adjusting dies.
A Lee Loader is a good tool to teach basics to a newb, but it gets real old, real fast.
Carbide die sets cost more, but worth the money. Cuts down on time and lube mess. RCBS makes a better die than Lee, no questions asked on returned broke stuff, but it costs more. A taper crimp die is money well spent, especially on auto loader cartridges, pays for itself in less wear on the brass.

the_tunaman
12-24-2013, 11:31 PM
The Lee may be a good fit, but think long and hard and also consider a progressive like the Dillon 550b and see if it makes sense to buy once, cry once. There is no substitute for being able to crank out a bunch of ammo in short order, or make precision rounds with minimal effort, or change calibers readily for loading sessions for multiple calibers. If you shoot much, it is doubtful that you won't enjoy the reloading activities. And if you find you just don't take to it you can always sell the gear for about what you paid as long as you get good gear to start with.

Dies are mostly interchangeable, so you are not locked in to one manufacturer and can mix and match as needed, if that suits your needs. At some point you will likely develop a preference based on your experiences.

One other nice feature of the Dillon, as well as some of the others mentioned like the turret system depicted above, is the ability to have multiple tool heads already set up with dies adjusted for your loads. If you use the powder measures you can have them set up for a quick swap with your favorite load.

I don't have any current photos of my bench, as I've expanded my collection considerably (now have 14 tool heads set up) but here's an older shot or two to demonstrate the points:

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/the_tunaman/B4317DF0-E312-4FE5-907A-D66071C2ABBF_zps7l46lm75.jpg

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/the_tunaman/9acfdcf3-76ed-4fb3-b62a-35d923665e9d_zps892d81f7.jpg

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/the_tunaman/f01ddfb9-1c49-43f0-9d04-74db8d9836c8_zps22492e69.jpg

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/the_tunaman/Stockpile_zps7d8cc4f9.jpg

Jimja
12-25-2013, 7:30 AM
Thanks everyone for all of the comments. I'll go to the reloading clinic on Jan 11th if I can (might be busy that Sat. though). It would be great to be able to try out a couple of the options and see how they work first hand before buying. I don't mind spending a bit more $ at the beginning to get something that's really good, just have to figure out what that is :)

rdfact
12-25-2013, 11:50 AM
http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/the_tunaman/9acfdcf3-76ed-4fb3-b62a-35d923665e9d_zps892d81f7.jpg



So how much does it cost for a toolhead, dies, and powder measure for each caliber?

the_tunaman
12-25-2013, 8:23 PM
Quite a bit, actually. I myself only have four powder measures set up on calibers that I don't load for precision. The other tool heads are set up with dies only and I use the Chargemaster to measure the charges. Testament to the versatility of reloading.

Flyin Brian
12-26-2013, 4:45 AM
Quite a bit, actually. I myself only have four powder measures set up on calibers that I don't load for precision. The other tool heads are set up with dies only and I use the Chargemaster to measure the charges. Testament to the versatility of reloading.

hey I didn't realize you had a Wilson trimmer. I've got something sitting here that I accidentally ordered two of, so it's yours the next time I see you.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

the_tunaman
12-26-2013, 7:10 AM
It was highly recommended by my mentor!

stevied
01-03-2014, 7:45 AM
If you're looking to get started up and want a solid case trimmer, the trim-it is the way to go. It can trim anything from .17 to .470 cases, and I an attachment for pistol cases has been patented and is in development.

www.eztrimit.com

New member and all 4 of your posts are recommending the trimmer. You should spam somewhere else.

emcon5
01-03-2014, 8:10 AM
If you're looking to get started up and want a solid case trimmer, the trim-it is the way to go. It can trim anything from .17 to .470 cases, and I an attachment for pistol cases has been patented and is in development.

www.eztrimit.com

If you're looking to get started up and want a solid case trimmer, get a Lee hand trimmer and chuck it in a cordless drill you probably already own.

Cutter and lock stud:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/476992/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-and-lock-stud

Case Length Gage and Shellholder:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/459337/lee-case-length-gage-and-shellholder-30-06-springfield

So to get started for one caliber is ~$13, with ~$5 extra per caliber you load. They have shellholder/length gages for most calibers.
http://leeprecision.com/case-conditioning-tools/case-trimming-tools/case-length-gauge-holder/

No, it is not as fast as some of the more expensive trimmers, but for the volume most C&R shooters reload, I never found it that big of a deal.

knucklehead0202
01-03-2014, 1:06 PM
just for the record you'll not likely see a picture of my "reloading room" anytime soon as it looks like an armory vomited in there. gonna do a major cleanup soon but it's a real disaster, lol. still manage to turn out ammo when I get inspired though, just need more room!

Capybara
01-03-2014, 1:19 PM
Just as a heads up to the OP, I was all hot to reload 7.62x54r for my Mosins until I ran the numbers. It looks like .42 per round for me. I have thousands of rounds sitting in spam cans that I bought as low as .12 per round so I won't be reloading 7.62x54r for quite a while. I have 500 rounds of Prvi brass that I can use if I want to take a Mosin to a SoCal public range but mostly I will shoot the surplus in the desert or elsewhere.

Same with the 7.5mm Swiss. GP11 is excellent, very accurate ammo so as long as it is available, I don't see a big motivation to reload for it. You aren't going to save much, it will take a lot of testing to make anything even slightly more accurate, etc.

Your other calibers make more sense to reload for to me as they are relatively obscure, hard to buy new or surplus, etc.

knucklehead0202
01-03-2014, 3:27 PM
^^^+100!

Jimja
01-03-2014, 3:28 PM
Just as a heads up to the OP, I was all hot to reload 7.62x54r for my Mosins until I ran the numbers. It looks like .42 per round for me. I have thousands of rounds sitting in spam cans that I bought as low as .12 per round so I won't be reloading 7.62x54r for quite a while. I have 500 rounds of Prvi brass that I can use if I want to take a Mosin to a SoCal public range but mostly I will shoot the surplus in the desert or elsewhere.

Same with the 7.5mm Swiss. GP11 is excellent, very accurate ammo so as long as it is available, I don't see a big motivation to reload for it. You aren't going to save much, it will take a lot of testing to make anything even slightly more accurate, etc.

Your other calibers make more sense to reload for to me as they are relatively obscure, hard to buy new or surplus, etc.

I have tons of 7.62x54r in spam cans as well. The reason I'd like to reload that caliber is accuracy, I have a couple of PU snipers, an SVT-40 and a PSL that I'd like to shoot at longer distances, 300+ yards and more. For just plinking around the spam can ammo is great, not that accurate though

I also have a bunch of 7.5mm swiss GP11, I'm very happy with that ammo and don't plan on reloading for it.

I have a few rifles that use the 7.5mm french and 8.x56r, as well as the Japanese 6mm/7mm. That's what I'd probably start with

Capybara
01-03-2014, 3:33 PM
Your reasons for reloading 7.62x54r sound pretty reasonable as the surplus ammo is not usually very accurate but you have some cool semi autos. Most of us with plain old 91/30s and M44s, it wouldn't be worth it. Lucky you, I would love to own an SVT and a PSL!