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DS94901
08-26-2013, 11:53 AM
After about 100-150 rounds my AK started stove-piping on just about every 3-4 rounds. I'm getting all kinds of jams due to the shells not ejecting. I've yet to do the tilt test as I've heard Nicoroshi recommend to others, but I did notice the ejector rail looked like it was riding just slightly high through the bolt. I tapped it down a bit too far at first then corrected to what looks like a better position and the bolt slides through nicely, but when I took it to the range it made no difference.

Any ideas what my issue might be or how to correct it? I realize I'm not giving much info and no photos but I'm at work and trying to get a jumpstart on this.

meaty-btz
08-26-2013, 12:01 PM
Take the BCG and put it in the AK. Slide it till the ejector is ever so slightly sticking out of the bolt face. Now see if you can "shift" side to side on the carrier and get enough movement to allow the ejector to no longer be in proper position. If so your rail spacing width is too great.

I use a C-clamp to bring it in.. not too far so that the ejector is unable to shift out of position such that the ejector will no longer contact the spent cartridge correctly.

In this situation your ak receiver looks like this \_/ rather than this |_|.

The other possibility is your ejector has been shortened too much or has been improperly hardened so that it has worn.

tujungatoes
08-26-2013, 1:17 PM
Need more info/pics. Is it a factory rifle(if so which brand)or a home build? Do the test that the previous poster suggested, and take a picture showing the gap(if any) between the ejector and bolt.

DS94901
08-26-2013, 1:31 PM
Need more info/pics. Is it a factory rifle(if so which brand)or a home build? Do the test that the previous poster suggested, and take a picture showing the gap(if any) between the ejector and bolt.

Home build. Will post pics as soon as I get the chance. I feel like the rail was welded too high (not sure how that could have happened) and now the ejector is angled slightly. Not sure though.

meaty-btz
08-26-2013, 1:58 PM
Height shouldn't make a difference as long as the rail is properly in-line with the bolt guides in the Trunnion.

The only way to get the ejector failure is: short ejector, rail width incorrect.

If the up-down angle of the ejector is incorrect you will get binding and as a result you will get Bolt-Over failures from short strokes. Which I recently had on a build.

These are AKs, tweak as needed. Seriously, your "tool kit" should consist of a flat file a hammer and a c-clamp.

tujungatoes
08-26-2013, 7:55 PM
^You forgot MIG welder.

Generally: Homebuild + FTE = ejector was trimmed too short. Lets see those pics.

idlplumb
08-26-2013, 11:13 PM
It could also be the angle of the ejector.

Gunsmith Dan
08-27-2013, 12:01 AM
Ahh before we get into this to much and start cuting off the rivets and trashing the receiver since any type of misfitting or incorrect tolerances would be causing a much more consistent failure than every 100 to 150 rounds......

If I understand you correctly you shoot 100 to 150 rounds before you start having issues, and I am assuming you are not using a 200 round Beta drum when shooting?

The questions I have are:

Do you do anything to make the rifle go back to shooting 100 to 150 rounds before jamming again, or does it correct itself after awhile?

Is the ammo you are using steel cased mil surplus? If using Mil Surplus how many rounds do you fire before doing a basic cleaning?

You said you getting stove pipe jams ...are they always on empty cases, always loaded rounds or a mix of both? Do you get any other types of failure to feed or jamming?

Have you marked your magazines when shooting to see if the jamming always occurs with the same magazines (put a piece of masking tape on each mag and number them with a pen)?

DS94901
08-27-2013, 8:14 AM
Gunsmith Dan, I was only able to get 100-150 rounds the first time I shot the rifle. Since then I can rarely get through 10 rounds without a jam or 2. Always empty shells. Steel case wolf, herders or wpa. Setimes they stovepipe, sometimes they're slammed against the barrel base. Couple times they've been set back (maybe caught on something?) with the bolt carrier when it's stuck all the way open. Didn't get a chance to post pics last night. Will try to tonight. Appreciate the help so far.

baih777
08-27-2013, 8:27 AM
since this is a homebuild. did you remember to heat treat the ejector?

DS94901
08-27-2013, 10:16 AM
since this is a homebuild. did you remember to heat treat the ejector?

Absolutely

idlplumb
08-27-2013, 10:21 AM
We need pics of the ejector.

When it was working fine, did it eject properly?....as in, did the empties go flying into the next county or were they not going very far?

Gunsmith Dan
08-27-2013, 10:36 AM
Sound like you have a extractor that is damaged, cut the wrong way, has extreme hard carbon build up on it or the spring is too weak/broken.

First thing use a dummy round or empty case and insert it into the bolt face then pull the case at the neck (like you want to rotate the case out instead of straight sideways) toward the side with the ejector. If the extractor is working correctly pulling in that direction you should not be able to pull the case out without damaging the case rim and/or the extractor (so don't pull that hard).

If the case comes off easy

Inspect the extractor for carbon build up, edge that sits on the case is broken (edge looks uneven), looking sideways that the extractor looks like it angles away from the bolt face (extractor bent or incorrectly machined) or the spring is weak or even broken.

If the case does not come off

Put strips of masking tape on your magazines and number them 1 to whatever then load the dummy rounds and hand cycle until you empty the magazines. Everytime you get a jam write down the magazine number and see if certain magazines always have a jam. You should also check your Mag Catch to make sure magazines do not move up and down to much and that the tops of your magazines sit in the same position when inserted.

Close up pictures of the bolt face with a round inserted and empty would be nice.

DS94901
08-27-2013, 10:38 AM
Pics tonight. When it was working fine they ejected far most of the time but the distance and angle was varied. I noticed at times they would not go far. Sometimes more forward, sometimes other angles.

Jayruta
08-27-2013, 11:36 AM
Pictures of the ejector would help. It sounds like the ejector was improperly heat treated and has mushroomed out of shape.

DS94901
08-27-2013, 1:14 PM
Pictures of the ejector would help. It sounds like the ejector was improperly heat treated and has mushroomed out of shape.

Pretty sure there is no mushrooming. At least to my observation but we'll see after taking another look and posting pics.

nicoroshi
08-27-2013, 3:45 PM
Pictures of the ejector would help. It sounds like the ejector was improperly heat treated and has mushroomed out of shape.

This^^^

DS94901
08-28-2013, 9:58 AM
Finally some photos. I also noticed that the front of the receiver is significantly wider than the rear. You can see how close the bolt runs to the edge of the receiver when pulled back and how much distance there is when pushed forward. Measured with a digital caliper at:

1.345" just in front of the rear trunion
1.387" just in front of center support
1.367" just behind front trunion

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo1_zpsf691a1e7.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo1_zpsf691a1e7.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo2_zpsafe20c9c.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo2_zpsafe20c9c.jpg.html)


While taking these photos I noticed a pretty deep gouge on the bottom side of the ejector that I'd never noticed before. Although the bolt never appears to be hanging up on this, I'm sure it's a problem (duh).

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo2_zps1e58ddf5.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo2_zps1e58ddf5.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo3_zps9ef18265.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo3_zps9ef18265.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/97164E8D-5FCC-4478-8AC3-E440496FDA93-497-000000CE31D05052_zpsb305ac30.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/97164E8D-5FCC-4478-8AC3-E440496FDA93-497-000000CE31D05052_zpsb305ac30.jpg.html)

and finally some additional shots of the ejector, rails, etc. The top of the ejector is pretty dinged up from me hammering around, trying to raise/lower it but is surprisingly smooth, believe it or not. I appreciate any and all suggestions and knowledge that any of you can impart on me. I know this rifle is a bit of a mess but I have a hard time believing that it is beyond repair when savages in Afghanistan can can have perfectly functional rifles, built with dark age technology. So until I have the time to build up another kit with the guidance of an expert, I'm trying to make due with what I have. Thanks guys.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo3_zps5c703849.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo3_zps5c703849.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo5_zps80a34d6c.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo5_zps80a34d6c.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo1_zps40aa2934.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo1_zps40aa2934.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo2_zpsea250a55.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo2_zpsea250a55.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo3_zpsfe7d17ce.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo3_zpsfe7d17ce.jpg.html)

Jayruta
08-28-2013, 1:18 PM
Ejector doesn't look too beat up. Some pictures of your bolt face might help. I'm guess new extractor or extractor spring since the ejector is not beat up. What angle is it throwing the spent shells that do go out? Up? Down? Barely stripping?

idlplumb
08-28-2013, 4:16 PM
Check tension of the extractor....

Also, check to make sure extractor is clean and gummed up...

If your receiver measures the same on the bottom half of it, you may want to VERY gently coax the top of the receiver back into alignment. IF the receiver is wide enough that the extractor isn't getting far enough "into" the bolt, that may be your problem.

Also, measure.... outside of receiver to tip of ejector. What's that measurement?

Pumkinking
08-28-2013, 4:40 PM
One of mine had the same issue.I replaced my recoil spring and never had an issue after that.
I would have 1 out of 10 rounds.
You never know how used some parts are in a parts kit.

Gunsmith Dan
08-28-2013, 9:07 PM
To be honest none of those pictures help and are not the pictures several of us requested.

We need pictures of the extractor, that part that holds the case rim on the bolt face of the bolt. Please take pictures of that area with and without case inserted as well as side shots to see if extractor is sticking out.

Thanks

Jayruta
08-28-2013, 10:49 PM
Where you located? If you are in sd we can go shooting and try a few things.

Alex$
08-29-2013, 5:56 AM
It might be the photo, but it looks like your receiver is bowing out due to recoil at the magwell/ejector. This can affect the clearance of the ejector.

When you were bending the receiver, did it bend right the first time, or did it come out crooked and need adjustment?

Also, check the rivets on the front trunnion.

DS94901
08-29-2013, 8:28 AM
Jayruta, I'm in Marin County, but thanks for the offer.
Alex$, the flat bent normally the first time.

After doing more checking and trying to move the bolt around while sliding it back and forth with a dummy round, I can't move the bolt far enough out of alignment for the ejector to miss the shell which I guess is good.

Here are a handful of photos showing the bolt face and extractor.

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo1_zps62b00674.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo1_zps62b00674.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo2_zpsc88e2ae8.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo2_zpsc88e2ae8.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo3_zps9ac02d9a.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo3_zps9ac02d9a.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo4_zps9989e9c0.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo4_zps9989e9c0.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo5_zpse3c88629.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo5_zpse3c88629.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo5_zpsf3889749.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo5_zpsf3889749.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo3_zps85b4f263.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo3_zps85b4f263.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo4_zpse703e08a.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo4_zpse703e08a.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo1_zps04565eb2.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo1_zps04565eb2.jpg.html)
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/praemonstrator/photo2_zpsd83fab7f.jpg (http://s915.photobucket.com/user/praemonstrator/media/photo2_zpsd83fab7f.jpg.html)

meaty-btz
08-29-2013, 9:38 AM
When the BCG is in the position it is in the last picture can you wiggle it, twisting left and right and make the claw go out of position to extract?

DS94901
08-29-2013, 9:46 AM
When the BCG is in the position it is in the last picture can you wiggle it, twisting left and right and make the claw go out of position to extract?

Not much wiggle room. I tried and can't get it to moveto a position where it would go out of position.

Gunsmith Dan
08-29-2013, 9:57 AM
Sounds like it is time for you to get a pro involved to do some hands on Diag on it as the pictures all look ok with nothing really sticking out as the obvious cause.

DS94901
08-29-2013, 10:07 AM
That's what I figured. Now to find someone in my area

ott1
08-29-2013, 10:09 AM
What is that?
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8800/0olk.jpg

DS94901
08-29-2013, 10:33 AM
Not sure. Going to have to check that out in more detail tonight. Thanks for pointing it out ott1

baih777
08-29-2013, 12:52 PM
take the bolt apart

idlplumb
08-30-2013, 4:36 PM
It's funny....it's such a simple mechanism and such a perplexing problem.