are 3x aimpoint magnifiers really necessary?

[Exodus343]

open discussion!
I was able to hit 600 yard steel plates yesterday using just my Aimpoint PRO and hold overs, no fancy magnifiers
so what's so special about them?

[tomd1584]

not everyone has as great as eyes as you do. There's nothing 'special' about them, other than providing 3x magnification (duh).

[seal20]

Howe could you even tell you were hitting that far out with what I'm assuming is a little .22 dia bullet?

[M3thodBombZ]

Electronic earmuffs and you'll know you hit that **** from a mile away...

[dut]

I can't imagine hitting plates at 600yds with no magnification. I bought a 3x magnifier for my Pro after one trip to a friend's ranch hitting tanks at 300yds.

[Exodus343]

Howe could you even tell you were hitting that far out with what I'm assuming is a little .22 dia bullet?

the range was pretty dead yesterday, no wind, perfect weather
I could hear the ping of the steel pig at 600 at Angeles everytime, and I could see the dirt I kick up if I missed

Electronic earmuffs and you'll know you hit that **** from a mile away...


I wish I had electronic earmuffs :)

[send it_hit]

can you hit at 600 yds with no mag? yeah. is it easier with 3x mag? yeah.

[Exodus343]

can you hit at 600 yds with no mag? yeah. is it easier with 3x mag? yeah.

single shot with an empty mag count? :p

touche

[Press Check]

Long while back, I had an Aimpoint M4 and the 3X Magnifier, and it was just far too heavy. Sold both and got an ACOG.

Regarding the topic, my vision is very effective to about 300, and after that, I need magnification for plates. I can make out the 600 plates at Angeles, but that's only because they're red.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wcpen4.jpg

[Exodus343]

Long while back, I had an Aimpoint M4 and the 3X Magnifier, and it was just far too heavy. Sold both and got an ACOG.

Regarding the topic, my vision is very effective to about 300, and after that, I need magnification for plates. I can make out the 600 plates at Angeles, but that's only because they're red.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wcpen4.jpg

this picture makes me want to go back again :(

[CK_32]

Guys will go on for days to justify impulse or tacticool add ons.


Just know what YOU need and leave it at that.

[dut]

Guys will go on for days to justify impulse or tacticool add ons.


Just know what YOU need and leave it at that.

True that... and with that said, for me the 3x helped out a lot and well worth it... Although I sold the combo and went with a 4x32 ACOG. Will be trying it out on Saturday, but not out 600 yards. :(

[MakeYaBootyBurn]

open discussion!
I was able to hit 600 yard steel plates yesterday using just my Aimpoint PRO and hold overs, no fancy magnifiers
so what's so special about them?

head shots bro, head shots!
I remember reading about a battle in IRAQ the Marines were using ACOGS almost every bad guy was shot in the head!

[Press Check]

Will be trying it out on Saturday, but not out 600 yards. :(

Why not, and which reticle did you get?

[dut]

Why not, and which reticle did you get?

I got the TA31CH.

We can't find any spots on the hill (below picture) that go beyond 300yds to put empty welding tanks.

The green hill you see on the left goes out to only about 480 yds I think, but it doesn't look like friendly terrain bringing a tank out to. Lol.

http://dut619.com/misc/playground.jpg

[G21Shooter]

All a 3x magnifier does is help with target identification, at one point I decided I needed one and spent $700 on a Aimpoint magnfier+LaRue mount to put behind my Aimpoint Pro. Quality piece of gear!

It does help getting the red dot zeroed at 50 yards, I can say that.

[SuperSet]

Magnification is cool and important beyond 100yds.

[Excitable Boy]

I like the flexibility it gives me. I have a 4MOA Micro T1 on my franken AR and it's comfortable to 300 yards. When I got my 6940, I figured that the monolithic upper and free float barrel might give me a little more accuracy out farther, so I put a 2MOA T1 on it and a 3X mag that I scored for a smoking deal. It is easier to hit out farther and helps for much tighter groups at closer ranges. It is heavy, but I like that with the stock mount, I can easily remove it for a variety of reasons and reinstall with no tools needed.

I have thought about an ACOG, but I like the ability to opo the 3X off and have a straight no mag RDS. Besides, the AR optics are working fine and if I'm going to spend more money on optics, it should be for the M1A.

[Press Check]

I got the TA31CH.

We can't find any spots on the hill (below picture) that go beyond 300yds to put empty welding tanks.

The green hill you see on the left goes out to only about 480 yds I think, but it doesn't look like friendly terrain bringing a tank out to. Lol.

http://dut619.com/misc/playground.jpg

You're going to love that reticle, Dut. I've owned the Chevron and Horseshoe models, and finally settled on the Crosshair model, which IMO, is the best reticle available for precision work.

I just sold a TA31-CH semi-recently, and purchased the LED model.

Since you don't have markers out there, how are you measuring yardage?

[CK_32]

True that... and with that said, for me the 3x helped out a lot and well worth it... Although I sold the combo and went with a 4x32 ACOG. Will be trying it out on Saturday, but not out 600 yards. :(

Yea being I have spacific rifles/firearms for spacific jobs I dont have much love making a CQB rifle achieve LR jobs.. Reason I've never been a fan of 3xers


1 rifle one role.. If not your unprepared for the task at hand IMO. Need a rifle for LR identification have a rifle built and set up to do so. Like your ACOG.. If you have a CQB type rifle have a rifle to do so.. 1x..


A 1x/3x combo is trying to cover too many roles for one rifle which is now set up to do neither properly but do both half a**ed.

So that's my philosophy haha


Before someone rebuttals my post with a retarded what if.. Military/LEO teams don't travel in singles.. So them needing a rifle to do both is moot

Civilian use.. If your shooting a bad guy at a distance to where you need 3x mag.. Your asking for issues and breaking all sorta of laws.. Again moot argument.

Hunting sure it could be useful.. But in that case at distance all that's needed is scoped rifle.. The chance of you needed a 1x/3x combo in the field is pretty far fetched.


My $.02. Dut dont see this as all per your comment. Just figured Id cover all basis in one post being just answering yours I know someone will quote me leading to my full post anyways. Figured just get my view out of the way in one shot and avoid a what if war.

Nice shoot spot BTW

[dut]

You're going to love that reticle, Dut. I've owned the Chevron and Horseshoe models, and finally settled on the Crosshair model, which IMO, is the best reticle available for precision work.

I just sold a TA31-CH semi-recently, and purchased the LED model.

Since you don't have markers out there, how are you measuring yardage?

Yea, since most of my shooting is off bipod or table I wanted the more traditional crosshair.

There are 8 welding tanks we placed out there and have a couple of range finders to measure.


1 rifle one role..
.............
Nice shoot spot BTW

Thanks. And yea, I see your point with one rifle one role. I don't have that luxury, so I have to opt for my ACOG 4X with RMR on top. :p

Oh, and I've hit a tank at 200yds with my Sig P229 9mm... so why need a rifle to shoot at 200yds? :p

[Exodus343]

I wish I can afford an ACOG.... lol
in due time

[dut]

I wish I can afford an ACOG.... lol
in due time

It was only $175 difference after selling my PRO and 3X combo... but then I had to get an RMR, so add another $425. :facepalm:

[Press Check]

1 rifle one role.. If not your unprepared for the task at hand IMO. Need a rifle for LR identification have a rifle built and set up to do so. Like your ACOG.. If you have a CQB type rifle have a rifle to do so.. 1x..


If we're talking about self-defense, preparedness entails carrying one rifle to cover multiples roles. Otherwise, there'd be no market for 1-4x optics like an Elcan Specter, which is marketed as a dual-role optic. In the case of an ACOG where the magnification is fixed, an optional RMR or Docter coverts the weapon to a dual-purpose rifle.

[xxINKxx]

Buy a primary arms 3x magnifier to test the waters. You won't blow a lot of cash. I did that and the quality is crystal clear and awsome. I don't really use it much since its not my preference. But at least im not out alot of money compared to spending almost 600$ on an aimpoint brand.

[latigidyblod]

aimpoint t-1 4 moa and aimpoint magnifier with larue mounts on my spikes right now. I was able to hit the pig or large target at 600 yards consistently at the bench with hold over at Angeles. Oddly enough my groupings at 100 yards to zero it in wasn't that great. With my really bad eyes corrected with contact lenses it helps alot with targets beyond 100 and hitting plates between 600 and 100.

Negative for me is with the magnifier the red dot isn't a circle but an elongated oval. Called aimpoint about it because I tested the red dot out by rotating it to see if the shape would would rotate with the gun, it did. Aimpoint rep told me it was the way I perceive the dot and I should practice focusing more on the target at longer ranges with the magnifier on.

[SuperSet]

Negative for me is with the magnifier the red dot isn't a circle but an elongated oval. Called aimpoint about it because I tested the red dot out by rotating it to see if the shape would would rotate with the gun, it did. Aimpoint rep told me it was the way I perceive the dot and I should practice focusing more on the target at longer ranges with the magnifier on.

That part sucks and it's not just you. What the rep mentioned is wrong though in that you're not supposed to use target focus when the magnifier is in place. You have to focus on the reticle so you can derive the limits of the 2MOA or 4MOA dot. It is very difficult to do when the reticle is a blob.

[davedog665]

open discussion!
I was able to hit 600 yard steel plates yesterday using just my Aimpoint PRO and hold overs, no fancy magnifiers
so what's so special about them?

you could say the same about using iron sights.

[Leadingall]

why?

because it provides the system with variability

not limitation

[NulodPBall]

open discussion!
I was able to hit 600 yard steel plates yesterday using just my Aimpoint PRO and hold overs, no fancy magnifiers
so what's so special about them?

Hello Exodus - Nothing special, just preference. I qualified at one range with max target distance of 450 yards a long time ago with iron sights. Would I do that now? No. I like using the 8x on my scope at 100 yards when punching paper so I can see where on the target I hit without going to my spotting scope.

Someone mentioned one weapon = one mission and I've been playing around with different setups when I go to classes and when I have access to a private range and I'm leaning toward that idea now, but not everyone has that much cash, or in my case, not enough space in my safe to store as many long guns as I wish.

Will you ever get surprised at close range? Of course you will, and I had a conversation with a friend just before a hunt about that and his response was "I can dial down quickly" so guess what happened? He wasn't able to dial down quickly enough when he was surprised at 20 yards or so.

Ideally, rather than a separate magnifier, I'd rather have a red dot that has 1-to-whatever magnification but when shooting with both eyes open, if there's any sort of magnification I get thrown off a little and I know from my friend's experience, that it's much quicker (and intuitive) to push the magnifier to one side but to each, his own.

Are you good enough that you don't need the magnifier? Yes, you are. But I like to see exactly where I'm hitting, when the hit occurs...and I have bad eyes.

I used to know M1 Garand shooters with iron sights that would practice for 1000 yard shots...but then again, back then there were no red dots. Whatever works for you :)

Have fun shooting.

[golfish]

open discussion!
I was able to hit 600 yard steel plates yesterday using just my Aimpoint PRO and hold overs, no fancy magnifiers
so what's so special about them?

How old are you?

[Exodus343]

I'm 20

[golfish]

I'm 20

after 20, just add an X for every 10 years :D

[akjunkie]

Been to ASR on a super quiet day. I was able to shoot and hear the steel pig at 600yds but I was shooting my Fn-Fal in 762nato.

You were actually able to see the little 223 pop dirt @ 600yds? U must have bionic vision...& hearing.

[MrPlink]

I think magnifiers on red dots are oft misunderstood or used incorrectly.
Its not so much intended to be run primarily as opposed to the occasional longer shots where a little extra juice helps.
Magnifiers compared to traditional Scopes have a lot of draw backs, generally poorer FOV, less forgiving relief and less light transmission.

I have one and it is currently mounted on my 22lr behind and eotech. It honestly doesent make a lot of sense on my set up, but I wasn't using it on anything else anymore and the 22 was so light to begin with the extra weight was not a big deal.

If and when I slap together a centerfire 16in AR again it might get shuffled arround again.

But over all in my experience if running with magnification is more of your primary intended use, with no magnification being more occasional then a more traditional 1-4x makes more sense.

[Exodus343]

edited

[obiwan]

Talk to us when you're 50...

[CK_32]

Talk to us when you're 50...

:facepalm:

[pipboy]

I mostly agree with the philosophy that equipment setup should reflect the intended purpose. That said, there is value in having some flexibility as well. If you check out a 3-gun match, you will see the benefit of having the capability to quickly go from magnified to non-magnified and vise versa with your optic setup.

[goodlookin1]

I hated it. Had a Vortex VMX-3, was behind an Eotech 512 in a Larue LT-649 mount.....Loved the Eotech, hated the magnifier.

- Heavy
- Bulky
- Darkened the sight picture due to more panes of glass
- Small FOV
- Short eye relief
- Didn't add any extra ability to hit with more precision
- Larue FTS mount still had a little wobble.....bothered me a little
- Did I mention heavy?

Even though I loved the Eotech for CQB, I wanted GOOD magnification. I sold my setup and bought a TA31F. Eventually put an RMR on top. Now I have a 0-500 yard rifle with true crystal clear, high resolution optics and I don't have to flip some big monocle to the side to go CQB!

Just my opinion though. If it works for you, more power to you.

[fmunk]

the range was pretty dead yesterday, no wind, perfect weather
I could hear the ping of the steel pig at 600 at Angeles everytime, and I could see the dirt I kick up if I missed




I wish I had electronic earmuffs :)


Well you just answered your own question right there. You won't get conditions like that all of the time. Zombies don't care if it's a nice day or bad day to come at you. They just come at you.

What's so special about magnifiers? they help you see. What else?!