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Travis590A1
06-29-2013, 9:24 PM
Ok so I'm going to be getting my CCW soon but in the mean time, what is the legal way to carry a handgun in my vehicle for self defense purposes? In the trunk unloaded? Locked in a case? Id rather not carry a long gun due to the fact I don't want to advertise I carry to my neighbors by carrying a long gun to and from my car daily. Also how and where could I store loaded mags? I know they can't really be near the gun. Thanks guys.

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mofojoe
06-29-2013, 9:27 PM
Gun and mags in the trunk.

Mr.1904
06-29-2013, 9:30 PM
Pistol in a locked container (if your trunk locks it's considered a locked container) with ammunition in a separate container.

Travis590A1
06-29-2013, 9:34 PM
Pistol in a locked container (if your trunk locks it's considered a locked container) with ammunition in a separate container.

Well that's the catch, I mean you need a key to open the trunk from the outside, but there is a trunk release on the inside of the car, still considered locked?

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Librarian
06-29-2013, 9:36 PM
Well that's the catch, I mean you need a key to open the trunk from the outside, but there is a trunk release on the inside of the car, still considered locked?


Nobody knows for sure - not specified in PC, no case law either way, so far as I am aware.

Simpler to use a specific locking case for the gun and skip the trunk question.

See the wiki article on transporting -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting#In_a_vehicle

Shasta Frog
06-29-2013, 9:38 PM
Most guys will say that the ammo can be with the gun as long as its not in the gun and both are in a locked container. Some guys will say the gun locked in the trunk and the ammo in the glove box. And still others will say something completely different. :whistling: I say just lock it up and call it good:)

Merc1138
06-29-2013, 9:45 PM
Most guys will say that the ammo can be with the gun as long as its not in the gun and both are in a locked container.
Because that is the law.
Some guys will say the gun locked in the trunk and the ammo in the glove box. And still others will say something completely different.
Because some people love spreading BS.

Packy14
06-29-2013, 9:49 PM
Because that is the law.

Because some people love spreading BS.

The mag does not need to be locked. It can even be in your pocket. It just can't be in the magwell

Merc1138
06-29-2013, 9:54 PM
The mag does not need to be locked. It can even be in your pocket. It just can't be in the magwell

I didn't state that you couldn't. I was referring to the fools who claim you can't lock ammo in the same container as the gun. If you read the rest of my post, and understand that a truck qualifies as a locking container, you can keep ammo in the trunk with the gun.

There are people(who still claim this) love spreading the nonsense that ammo in the same container as a gun = loaded.

Notice how the text I quoted was that you can do it, not that it was the only way to do it.

desertexplore
06-29-2013, 10:03 PM
Tagged

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/30/8etanupy.jpg

Packy14
06-29-2013, 10:08 PM
I didn't state that you couldn't. I was referring to the fools who claim you can't lock ammo in the same container as the gun. If you read the rest of my post, and understand that a truck qualifies as a locking container, you can keep ammo in the trunk with the gun.

There are people(who still claim this) love spreading the nonsense that ammo in the same container as a gun = loaded.

Notice how the text I quoted was that you can do it, not that it was the only way to do it.

Make sure the trunk does not have a pass through or it does not qualify as a locking container.

Merc1138
06-29-2013, 10:27 PM
Make sure the trunk does not have a pass through or it does not qualify as a locking container.

No... you just need to make sure you can't get to it from inside the car. My own trunk has a pass through that needs to be opened from the trunk side, works just fine. I assumed that people would understand what using a trunk as a locking container meant after reading the entire thread.

Packy14
06-29-2013, 10:39 PM
No... you just need to make sure you can't get to it from inside the car. My own trunk has a pass through that needs to be opened from the trunk side, works just fine. I assumed that people would understand what using a trunk as a locking container meant after reading the entire thread.

If the passthrough can be accessed into the trunk it's not a locking container unless you can lock out that option in the trunk.

Merc1138
06-29-2013, 10:43 PM
If the passthrough can be accessed into the trunk it's not a locking container unless you can lock out that option in the trunk.

Already been explained in this thread. I don't understand why you're just reading one post at a time instead of the entire thread so there's some actual context...

SonofWWIIDI
06-29-2013, 10:52 PM
Pistol in a locked container (if your trunk locks it's considered a locked container) with ammunition in a separate container.
Incorrect, this was covered in depth in the thread below some time ago.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103660

Tagged

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/30/8etanupy.jpg
:rofl2:

Packy14
06-29-2013, 11:14 PM
Already been explained in this thread. I don't understand why you're just reading one post at a time instead of the entire thread so there's some actual context...

Because the way you explain things is going to confuse those who don't know any better.

Merc1138
06-29-2013, 11:16 PM
Because the way you explain things is going to confuse those who don't know any better.

It confuses people who don't bother to read the whole thread before replying, or at least make sure they understand the quoted text so the response that was specific to that text makes sense.

Packy14
06-29-2013, 11:34 PM
It confuses people who don't bother to read the whole thread before replying, or at least make sure they understand the quoted text so the response that was specific to that text makes sense.

Sure.

kel-tec-innovations
06-29-2013, 11:50 PM
IMHO if you have time to retrieve the pistol from a locked trunk or container you have the time to drive away and avoid the situation. ofcourse there are exception of broken down car, traffic etc. But how much time do you have when someone approaches you? I recently had a guy pull a knife on me 5 ft. away and closing in quick. So do you think you have time to go unlock case, pull pistol out, place magazine in, rack slide and point aim and fire?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=786110

Sleighter
06-30-2013, 12:00 AM
Well that's the catch, I mean you need a key to open the trunk from the outside, but there is a trunk release on the inside of the car, still considered locked?

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Nobody knows for sure - not specified in PC, no case law either way, so far as I am aware.

Simpler to use a specific locking case for the gun and skip the trunk question.

See the wiki article on transporting -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting#In_a_vehicle

Make sure the trunk does not have a pass through or it does not qualify as a locking container.

If the passthrough can be accessed into the trunk it's not a locking container unless you can lock out that option in the trunk.

Kenshinoro:
Librarian already pointed out that the trunk accessability issue isnt settled by law. So why do you claim that it doesn't qualify as locked? If you know something the rest of us don't, share with us the case law! I try to keep up on these things.

Packy14
06-30-2013, 12:15 AM
Kenshinoro:
Librarian already pointed out that the trunk accessability issue isnt settled by law. So why do you claim that it doesn't qualify as locked? If you know something the rest of us don't, share with us the case law! I try to keep up on these things.

I dont think Librarian is saying that a trunk is not a valid locked container. The issue is does a trunk that has a pass through allowing access into the trunk from the cabin, which cannot be locked out from inside the trunk, make the trunk no longer a locked container. I believe Librarian would agree that it does, however there is no case law and that situation is not spelled out in the law. The other issue is where can loaded mags be.... They can be anywhere except the magwell.

It's pretty clear right here. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting#In_a_vehicle

Travis590A1
06-30-2013, 12:16 AM
IMHO if you have time to retrieve the pistol from a locked trunk or container you have the time to drive away and avoid the situation. ofcourse there are exception of broken down car, traffic etc. But how much time do you have when someone approaches you? I recently had a guy pull a knife on me 5 ft. away and closing in quick. So do you think you have time to go unlock case, pull pistol out, place magazine in, rack slide and point aim and fire?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=786110

True, I always have a couple knives on my person for my primary defense. The handgun is more of an insurance. Knowing that I have a firearm just about everywhere I go is a slightly comforting feeling. Mainly when I go to visit family or friends in a not so nice area. I really should have asked the legalitys of transporting a pistol on a daily basis but I guess its one in the same. I realize that in a realistic defensive situation I'm not going to have time to pop the trunk, unlock, load etc. "Please mr car jacker, wait 30 seconds to a minute while I unlock and load my Glock" lol. They say you have a pistol to fight your way to a long gun, well I carry a knife to fight my way to a pistol lol. That's as good as my "on the go" defense is going to get. Until I get my CCW anyway.

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johnthomas
06-30-2013, 12:31 AM
California Firearms
Laws 2007
29
applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code § 12025(f).)
Section 12025 does not apply to or affect any of the following:
• Any citizen of the U
on 8100 or 8101 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code, may carry
, either openly or concealed, anywhere within his or her place of
business, or on private property owned or
l
• The transportation or carrying of any pistol
, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person by any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years
who resides or is temporarily within this state, and is not within the excepted classes
prescribed by Penal Code
Sections 12021 or 12021.1 or Welfare
and Institutions Code sections
8100 or 8103, provided that the following applies:
- the firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container
in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment, and;
- when the firearm is carried by the person to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose, the
firearm must be contained in a locked contai
ner while being physically
carried. (Penal Code §
12026.1.)

TeddyBallgame
06-30-2013, 2:26 AM
when I drive I have both my Px4 and two magazines locked together in a combination case, sitting on the passenger side of my vehicle

the magazines are not in the magwell, in fact I even have the 3-digit combination set so that I only have to move one of the 3 into place to unlock...by law, its still locked until I move that last digit into place

been doing it that way for years, granted, never had an issue about it, but, as far as the research I've done, I am not breaking any transportation laws

if a LEO happens to feel differently about that, I guess we'll let the courts decide if I've broken a law or not

thespy
06-30-2013, 2:52 AM
"I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?
California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703." - http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

Germz
06-30-2013, 3:48 AM
as earlier stated, there is no case law. even if i could get into my trunk from the inside of my vehicle, id argue 99% of passthroughs have some sort of latch or mechanism (aka a lock) that id have to manipulate to open the trunk. therefore, locked container on the inside. locked container from the outside. settled and done. throw your mags and pistols in the trunk and thats as ready as you can be.

I neither admit to or deny this is how I store my pistol everytime I go to meet FTF for a craigslist deal. :shifty:

voiceofreason
06-30-2013, 4:13 AM
NO magazine in the magwell of the pistol

loaded magazines + not loaded pistol in a gun case (yes, together)

case next to you on the passenger seat

case is locked with a combination padlock 1 number off from the combination-can get it out very quickly
(change it if you leave the car and cover the case)

this would be legally acceptable for driving, but not optimal

I'd carry a quality folder and just wait for your CCW/LTC.

toby
06-30-2013, 4:42 AM
POPCORN!

negolien
06-30-2013, 6:01 AM
If you don't have a carry permit my answer would be not at all. If it's for "self defense" Carrying it legally in a vehicle would pretty much make it useless for defense wouldn't it? Oh excuse me.. I know you're car jacking me but do you mind if I pop the trunk and grab my pistol? :eek:

mofojoe
06-30-2013, 6:08 AM
Well that's the catch, I mean you need a key to open the trunk from the outside, but there is a trunk release on the inside of the car, still considered locked?

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Come on you're splitting hairs:)

SilverTauron
06-30-2013, 6:57 AM
If you don't have a carry permit my answer would be not at all. If it's for "self defense" Carrying it legally in a vehicle would pretty much make it useless for defense wouldn't it? Oh excuse me.. I know you're car jacking me but do you mind if I pop the trunk and grab my pistol? :eek:

The practice also gives ammo to the State if they pursue a prosecution against the OP after a defensive incident.Like another poster said,if you have enough time to unlock a case and chamber the gun you've got enough time to escape and dial 911.

Given the amount of vehicle break ins and thefts nowadays,best the OP leave the gun at home.

voiceofreason
06-30-2013, 7:12 AM
The practice also gives ammo to the State if they pursue a prosecution against the OP after a defensive incident.Like another poster said,if you have enough time to unlock a case and chamber the gun you've got enough time to escape and dial 911.

Given the amount of vehicle break ins and thefts nowadays,best the OP leave the gun at home.


I disagree with the first paragraph.

Even with a CCW, trips to places like the post office require leaving your firearm in your car legally.

glockman19
06-30-2013, 7:21 AM
Why not Unloaded Locked Concealed Carry? Get an Allen locking soft nylon case, keep unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same locked case.

Then you can carry it on you, in the glove box or under the seat.

Felix168
06-30-2013, 7:52 AM
Simply put, without the CCW, you cannot really have a pistol in your car for self-defense purpose.
There already is a law prohibits open carry.
And if you're going to argue that your car is your home, then how are you going to justify shooting an intruder outside of your car?

Felix168
06-30-2013, 7:53 AM
Why not Unloaded Concealed Carry? Get an Allen locking soft nylon case, keep unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same locked case.

Then you can carry it on you, in the glove box or under the seat.

you must be joking, correct?

SilverTauron
06-30-2013, 7:54 AM
I disagree with the first paragraph.

Even with a CCW, trips to places like the post office require leaving your firearm in your car legally.

Not necessarily.If I'm driving to a state building I'll leave the gun at home.Why bother bringing it if you're spending most of the trip in a prohibited area?

glockman19
06-30-2013, 8:10 AM
you must be joking, correct?

Not joking, Totally legal.

You can carry on your person a firearm concealed in a locked case with ammunition in the magazine as long as the magazine is NOT in the firearm.

HappyCamper781
06-30-2013, 8:34 AM
@ Felix168 Vs glickman19:

If carrying in a locked case were illegal, I'd be breaking the law every time I walk from parking on a public street into the firing range(s) I go to.

Packy14
06-30-2013, 8:41 AM
@ Felix168 Vs glickman19:

If carrying in a locked case were illegal, I'd be breaking the law every time I walk from parking on a public street into the firing range(s) I go to.

Wow, someone who actually thinks, bravo. This thread is so fail.

Travis590A1
06-30-2013, 9:09 AM
If you don't have a carry permit my answer would be not at all. If it's for "self defense" Carrying it legally in a vehicle would pretty much make it useless for defense wouldn't it? Oh excuse me.. I know you're car jacking me but do you mind if I pop the trunk and grab my pistol? :eek:

Not really, if its in a lock box next to you then its a viable option. I agree that 99% of the time your more than likely going to have time to drive away to avoid contact before needing to draw your gun, but there's still that 1%.

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Hoshnasi
06-30-2013, 9:30 AM
Simply put, without the CCW, you cannot really have a pistol in your car for self-defense purpose.
There already is a law prohibits open carry.
And if you're going to argue that your car is your home, then how are you going to justify shooting an intruder outside of your car?

You're wrong. Please don't propagate legal FUD.

-hanko
06-30-2013, 10:23 AM
when I drive I have both my Px4 and two magazines locked together in a combination case, sitting on the passenger side of my vehicle

the magazines are not in the magwell, in fact I even have the 3-digit combination set so that I only have to move one of the 3 into place to unlock...by law, its still locked until I move that last digit into place

been doing it that way for years, granted, never had an issue about it, but, as far as the research I've done, I am not breaking any transportation laws

if a LEO happens to feel differently about that, I guess we'll let the courts decide if I've broken a law or not
Same here.

Thank God for Halliburton. :D

-hanko

-hanko
06-30-2013, 10:26 AM
Simply put, without the CCW, you cannot really have a pistol in your car for self-defense purpose.
There already is a law prohibits open carry.
And if you're going to argue that your car is your home, then how are you going to justify shooting an intruder outside of your car?
You really need to understand the difference between "cannot" and "may not".:rolleyes:

WHY would you not want to be able to defend yourself and/or your friends and family just because you're mobile?

-hanko

Librarian
06-30-2013, 11:03 AM
Not joking, Totally legal.

You can carry on your person a firearm concealed in a locked case with ammunition in the magazine as long as the magazine is NOT in the firearm.

... which is why I recommended the locked case over something else and carry in the trunk. The 'pass through' and 'remote release' issues are unsettled - easier just to skip them and go with something clearer (that is, if you can live with the usage of 'secure' also being unsettled).

HappyCamper781
06-30-2013, 11:37 AM
^^ Always the best and final word on the situation. :D

CalvinH
06-30-2013, 11:55 AM
^^ ditto :thumbsup:

voiceofreason
06-30-2013, 12:57 PM
Not necessarily.If I'm driving to a state building I'll leave the gun at home.Why bother bringing it if you're spending most of the trip in a prohibited area?

That's your choice, but for some people that may not be the only destination planned.

If a person were to leave his firearm at home every time he was expecting to spend significant time in a location that requires him to leave it in his car... that would be inconvenient and discourage him from bringing it in the first place.

EXACTLY what the gun-grabbers want.

Some people prefer to be armed whenever possible to do so legally.

It's not optimal to leave it in the car, but neither is leaving your gun at home when going somewhere that requires you to leave it in your car at some point either.

Whether it's at a school or private property function that doesn't allow guns, it always saddens me that these vulnerable soft targets are "protection free zones" by design.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

In the interest of safety, since guns are so dangerous, maybe we shouldn't allow them near the president or Mayor Bloomberg.

Felix168
06-30-2013, 1:33 PM
@ Felix168 Vs glickman19:

If carrying in a locked case were illegal, I'd be breaking the law every time I walk from parking on a public street into the firing range(s) I go to.

There is a difference between transporting a firearm and carrying a firearm without a CCW in your car for self defense.

Felix168
06-30-2013, 1:34 PM
You really need to understand the difference between "cannot" and "may not".:rolleyes:

WHY would you not want to be able to defend yourself and/or your friends and family just because you're mobile?

-hanko

Same reason why you can't shoot someone outside on the street when you don't have a CCW. Would I WANT to be able to defend myself and/or my friends and family just because I'm mobile? Sure. In reality, can I, with the existing gun laws in this state?

*Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude did not have a CCW but he chose to carry a firearm in a legal manner in his car at all times, for defense purpose. One day at a stop light while he's driving, he's approached by 3 shotguns carrying mad men who were going to hijack his car. Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude yelled out, "give me a minute, I need to load my gun and defend myself against you mother f**kers! Mad men laughed, then shot poor Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude.


*Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude did not have a CCW but he chose to carry a firearm in his car at all times, for defense purpose. One day at a stop light while he's driving, he's approached by 3 shotguns carrying mad men who were going to hijack his car. Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude quickly drew his gun, using his amazing rifleman skill and killed all 3 intruders with his bad ***** .45 ACP. Police came, questioned Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude about how he was able to reach his gun so quickly. Knowing the event was probably recorded by the eyes in the sky (stop light cameras), Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude looked at the police officer with a blank on his eyes, and he was smart enough to plead the fifth. However, the DA decided there was no way Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude would have enough time to reach to his firearm if he had "transported" his gun in a legal manner. And so then after, we saw Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude in an orange jumpsuit pleading not guilty in court and fight for his case.

Felix168
06-30-2013, 1:37 PM
You're wrong. Please don't propagate legal FUD.

how is it that I'm wrong? there is a difference between transporting a firearm and carrying a firearm without a CCW for self defense out in the public.

TeddyBallgame
06-30-2013, 1:56 PM
how is it that I'm wrong? there is a difference between transporting a firearm and carrying a firearm without a CCW for self defense out in the public.there are no laws that I am aware of that limit when you can transport a firearm, plus, who can prove where I'm going at any particular time of the day? If they want to place limits on how I can keep myself protected, well, I'll exploit every legal avenue given to me

Jason95357
06-30-2013, 2:04 PM
So say I'm heading out on a fishing or hunting expedition (with my fishing or hunting license and gear) and with my UCC (as I'm allowed to do while going to/from my expedition). I stop for gas and am inside looking for something to drink. Bad guy walks waving a firearm around. What happens when I load, fire, and take out the bad guy? I'm going to jail for having and discharging a loaded weapon without a LTC? What if the bad guy has escalated and is firing?

Same scenario (or perhaps I'm not on an expedition, so it's not UCC, just unloaded and locked in my car), but I'm out pumping gas, cleaning out the trash and see said bad guy shooting up the place on their way out. Two seconds I can have my locked safe opened (electronic combo) and another second put the loaded mag into the well and load a round. Say I'm doing this for self-defense, while calling 9-1-1, etc., and bad guys are escaping toward me and demand my keys, and I've got a kid in the car, so I don't see much choice but to fire (not about to let a bad guy kidnap my kids, even if he doesn't mean too). Going to jail for having and discharging a loaded weapon for personal defense?

I know these are a bit out there, but not so far. Why else do we apply for CCWs for personal defense? While I want to walk the line and be legal, I have a desire to be as prepared legally as possible (where it is accessible in a locked container in the front of the car - all legal). So there is the line, but what then if there were a life-threatening situation beyond what pepper spray is going to mitigate, where do we non-CCW folks stand if we use deadly force?

Librarian
06-30-2013, 2:17 PM
where do we non-CCW folks stand if we use deadly force?

Local prosecutors will evaluate, and then it may go to a jury to decide.

Hypotheticals along this line just cannot be answered with any confidence.

Felix168
06-30-2013, 2:18 PM
So say I'm heading out on a fishing or hunting expedition (with my fishing or hunting license and gear) and with my UCC (as I'm allowed to do while going to/from my expedition). I stop for gas and am inside looking for something to drink. Bad guy walks waving a firearm around. What happens when I load, fire, and take out the bad guy? I'm going to jail for having and discharging a loaded weapon without a LTC? What if the bad guy has escalated and is firing?

Same scenario (or perhaps I'm not on an expedition, so it's not UCC, just unloaded and locked in my car), but I'm out pumping gas, cleaning out the trash and see said bad guy shooting up the place on their way out. Two seconds I can have my locked safe opened (electronic combo) and another second put the loaded mag into the well and load a round. Say I'm doing this for self-defense, while calling 9-1-1, etc., and bad guys are escaping toward me and demand my keys, and I've got a kid in the car, so I don't see much choice but to fire (not about to let a bad guy kidnap my kids, even if he doesn't mean too). Going to jail for having and discharging a loaded weapon for personal defense?

I know these are a bit out there, but not so far. Why else do we apply for CCWs for personal defense? While I want to walk the line and be legal, I have a desire to be as prepared legally as possible (where it is accessible in a locked container in the front of the car - all legal). So there is the line, but what then if there were a life-threatening situation beyond what pepper spray is going to mitigate, where do we non-CCW folks stand if we use deadly force?

Only legal remedy is to have a different bunch of lawmakers and LEOs running the show. Or when one day the current lawmakers wake up and say :facepalm: "what was I thinking?! we need to let people carry firearm to protect themselves" and change the law instantly.

sholling
06-30-2013, 2:28 PM
As long as you are just on your way to or from the range you should be able to place your unloaded pistol, along with your loaded magazine(s), in a locked container (http://www.amazon.com/GunVault-NV200-NanoVault-Style-Pistols/dp/B00384755S) anywhere that you like including on or under the passenger seat. The same goes for a revolver with speedloaders. The Nano comes in a couple of sizes and with a cable to secure it to the seat frame.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IeMh-Uu_3x4/TVot8ztwVCI/AAAAAAAALZs/A-fzxzKEsOI/s1600/GunVault%2BNanoVault%2B200%2BHandgun%2BStorage%2BS afe%252C%2BNV200%252C%2BKey%2BLock.jpg

SilverTauron
06-30-2013, 2:44 PM
That's your choice, but for some people that may not be the only destination planned.

If a person were to leave his firearm at home every time he was expecting to spend significant time in a location that requires him to leave it in his car... that would be inconvenient and discourage him from bringing it in the first place.

EXACTLY what the gun-grabbers want.

Some people prefer to be armed whenever possible to do so legally.

It's not optimal to leave it in the car, but neither is leaving your gun at home when going somewhere that requires you to leave it in your car at some point either.

Whether it's at a school or private property function that doesn't allow guns, it always saddens me that these vulnerable soft targets are "protection free zones" by design.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

In the interest of safety, since guns are so dangerous, maybe we shouldn't allow them near the president or Mayor Bloomberg.
The trouble is, one is more likely to have their car stolen or broken into then to be carjacked in route.In which case a firearm is now lost alongside the vehicle.

That means police reports,and replacing a lost handgun-and many nervous nights hoping its not used to rob or kill someone.Much as I would love to live in a society with universal acceptance of carry,its not gonna happen anytime soon.Many institutions have rationally calculated that its cheaper to wash the blood of their employees off the floor then to risk a tort suit from a dead maniacs family.


Even in ccw friendly states private businesses can and do ban weapons on the premesis,and the number of universities which permit guns on campus can be counted on one hand.I know a friend who doesn't own a handgun despite living in a shall issue state.

Why? He works at a university,so guns are prohibited on his job.His wife works in the medical field,so she can't carry either.For them a CCW permits meaningless,because their jobs mandate they be disarmed most of the day anyhow.

nickel plate
06-30-2013, 3:38 PM
Travis,

When you do get your CCW, this:

voiceofreason
06-30-2013, 4:53 PM
The trouble is, one is more likely to have their car stolen or broken into then to be carjacked in route.In which case a firearm is now lost alongside the vehicle.

That means police reports,and replacing a lost handgun-and many nervous nights hoping its not used to rob or kill someone.Much as I would love to live in a society with universal acceptance of carry,its not gonna happen anytime soon.Many institutions have rationally calculated that its cheaper to wash the blood of their employees off the floor then to risk a tort suit from a dead maniacs family.


Even in ccw friendly states private businesses can and do ban weapons on the premesis,and the number of universities which permit guns on campus can be counted on one hand.I know a friend who doesn't own a handgun despite living in a shall issue state.

Why? He works at a university,so guns are prohibited on his job.His wife works in the medical field,so she can't carry either.For them a CCW permits meaningless,because their jobs mandate they be disarmed most of the day anyhow.


Guns are at risk at home as well. Just less to some degree than in a car.

Not having your gun with you increases your risk as well. Not everyone goes straight from home to work to home.


If your gun is stolen along with your car, it's not your fault you left it there. You likely did not have a choice but to leave it there or forego your civil right to defend yourself at home out of convenience.

If following your logic that guns shouldn't be left in cars, many people would simply not carry except when convenient.

I agree that it sucks that guns are stolen out of cars, as many break ins are looking for guns.

Unfortunately, gun owners are simply abiding by the rules set out for us. If we did what the antis wanted, we'd all just hand them over or leave them in our safes unless we're going target shooting.

Hoshnasi
06-30-2013, 5:04 PM
how is it that I'm wrong? there is a difference between transporting a firearm and carrying a firearm without a CCW for self defense out in the public.

It is legal to transport a gun in your car after following proper laws for stowing. HARD STOP. No further discussion is needed since you are not required to state you're intensions to a police officer.

Travis590A1
06-30-2013, 6:54 PM
The only time the gun will be in the car is if I'm in it. When I go to a friend or family members house, the gun will be put in my get home bag (which is always at my side)

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk 2

-hanko
06-30-2013, 6:56 PM
There is a difference between transporting a firearm and carrying a firearm without a CCW in your car for self defense.
Not necessarily...the weapon sits with slide back, unloaded. The mag is loaded. Up to that point, it's legally transported.

Once the mag is inserted and the slide released, it's ready for self defense.


Same reason why you can't shoot someone outside on the street when you don't have a CCW. Would I WANT to be able to defend myself and/or my friends and family just because I'm mobile? Sure. In reality, can I, with the existing gun laws in this state?
Back to the difference between "can" and "may". I want to defend myself and/or my friends and family whether I'm in the house, outside, stationary, or mobile.


*Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude did not have a CCW but he chose to carry a firearm in a legal manner in his car at all times, for defense purpose. One day at a stop light while he's driving, he's approached by 3 shotguns carrying mad men who were going to hijack his car. Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude yelled out, "give me a minute, I need to load my gun and defend myself against you mother f**kers! Mad men laughed, then shot poor Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude.
Having a weapon ready is probably desireable v. being shot.


*Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude did not have a CCW but he chose to carry a firearm in his car at all times, for defense purpose. One day at a stop light while he's driving, he's approached by 3 shotguns carrying mad men who were going to hijack his car. Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude quickly drew his gun, using his amazing rifleman skill and killed all 3 intruders with his bad ***** .45 ACP. Police came, questioned Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude about how he was able to reach his gun so quickly. Knowing the event was probably recorded by the eyes in the sky (stop light cameras), Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude looked at the police officer with a blank on his eyes, and he was smart enough to plead the fifth. However, the DA decided there was no way Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude would have enough time to reach to his firearm if he had "transported" his gun in a legal manner. And so then after, we saw Mr. "Please don't propagate legal FUD" dude in an orange jumpsuit pleading not guilty in court and fight for his case.
I can open the briefcase, load the mag, and drop the slide in ~ 6-7 seconds.

First offense for carrying w/o chl is a misdemeanor...I'll still take that v. getting killed.

You might also check the definition of "FUD"...nothing I've posted concerns fear, other than that for my and others' lives and/or grave physical harm. I'm definitely not uncertain nor doubtful of what I'm doing...I realize it does conflict with California law, but that's my choice, not yours. Nor am I advocating anyone else does what I do. But I know a bunch of Californians who do the same thing...not that that may make it right in your judgement.


how is it that I'm wrong? there is a difference between transporting a firearm and carrying a firearm without a CCW for self defense out in the public.
See above, and thanks for your concern. :rolleyes:

-hanko

Falstaff
07-01-2013, 4:51 PM
With this:
http://i44.tinypic.com/13yknih.jpg

I keep my Glockenspiel with 2-3 LOADED mags in one of these in my truck.

And there IS case law on this.... However, prepare to beat the rap but not the ride....

Falstaff
07-01-2013, 4:57 PM
As long as you are just on your way to or from the range

Woot I get to call FUD!!
Where do you get that in the PC?

Merc1138
07-01-2013, 5:06 PM
As long as you are just on your way to or from the range

Where did you get this from? If you're talking about language that reads "for a lawful purpose", driving to mcdonalds to get lunch is a lawful purpose. Being the getaway driver for a bank robbery is not.

jasonnorcal
07-01-2013, 5:48 PM
Where did you get this from? If you're talking about language that reads "for a lawful purpose", driving to mcdonalds to get lunch is a lawful purpose. Being the getaway driver for a bank robbery is not.

I never looked at it that way. To me lawful purpose was either hunting or to and from the range. I see your point though.

Op, I never leave my pistol or rifles alone in the car if it's out of my sight. Makes me nervous. That means sometimes rarely I won't carry and no side trips when headed to or from the range

Sunday
07-01-2013, 5:50 PM
Most guys will say that the ammo can be with the gun as long as its not in the gun and both are in a locked container. Some guys will say the gun locked in the trunk and the ammo in the glove box. And still others will say something completely different. :whistling: I say just lock it up and call it good:)
That is what the constitution describes :sleeping:

bodger
07-01-2013, 5:55 PM
when I drive I have both my Px4 and two magazines locked together in a combination case, sitting on the passenger side of my vehicle

the magazines are not in the magwell, in fact I even have the 3-digit combination set so that I only have to move one of the 3 into place to unlock...by law, its still locked until I move that last digit into place

been doing it that way for years, granted, never had an issue about it, but, as far as the research I've done, I am not breaking any transportation laws

if a LEO happens to feel differently about that, I guess we'll let the courts decide if I've broken a law or not

Exactly what I do. LUCC...Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry. I have a soft case with combo lock with four digits that need to be lined up. Three of them are pre-aligned and covered with gaffer's tape so I only have to line up the last number, unzip, load the mag, rack the slide, and then die from the gunshots of my assailant who plugged me while I was doing all that crap.

Because Lee Baca doesn't issue LTCs and Charlie Beck thinks that's a great idea.

negolien
07-01-2013, 7:59 PM
I disagree with the first paragraph.

Even with a CCW, trips to places like the post office require leaving your firearm in your car legally.

You mean you have issues with the 2nd right lol? I also use a tie down safe in my trunk between my seat and my speaker box. I have to pop the trunk and release the seat, go into the car, pull the seat down, open the safe, put the gun in, lock it and flip the seat up. Kinda of a pain in the a** but I also have a pager alarm so good luck getting to it before I come out and put the whoop-down on ya lol. As always knowing where you're going and planning the carry to the situation is a responisbility that goes along with legal carry along with a proper vehicle safe imho.

Findout
07-01-2013, 11:50 PM
You really need to understand the difference between "cannot" and "may not".:rolleyes:

WHY would you not want to be able to defend yourself and/or your friends and family just because you're mobile?

-hanko

And you need to understand the difference between "illegal" and "I'm going to do it anyway"

"May not" means it's not legal. "Cannot" means there's no legal way to *carry* a pistol in your car without a CCW.

The terms and the whole argument got heavily muddied when this whole "LUCC" acronym gained popularity. It's completely misleading. What so many people are actually talking about when they say "LUCC" is "transporting".

*Transporting* a pistol in your car in a locked container is perfectly legal, permit or not. *Carrying* a pistol mean to have ready access to it, either on your person or otherwise accessible by the person without having to open a locked container. This is of course illegal for anyone who does not have a CCW.

A lot of the arguing in this thread would be resolved by abolishing the highly misleading "LUCC" term that so many people seem to use now.

LUCC = transporting in the eyes of the law. Why anyone felt the need to mud things up is beyond me.

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 8:53 AM
Im encouraged by the fact that a FUDspewer has not polluted this thread with the old "ammunition must be in a separate locked container" B.S.

Progress!
Yay!

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 9:05 AM
Now lets talk about the poor man's CHL, yup, the good ole 12027g and h exemption!
As far as Im concerned; 12027g gives me de facto, carte blanche, UCC "priviledges" from the time i leave my home until i return and everywhere in between not to mention blanket LCC while im fishin' and huntin'.

Findout
07-02-2013, 9:07 AM
Im encouraged by the fact that a FUDspewer has not polluted this thread with the old "ammunition must be in a separate locked container" B.S.

Progress!
Yay!

Who you talking to?

Findout
07-02-2013, 9:11 AM
Now lets talk about the poor man's CHL, yup, the good ole 12027g exemption!
As far as Im concerned; 12027g gives me de facto, carte blanche, UCC "priviledges" from the time i leave my home until i return and everywhere in between not to mention blanket LCC while im fishin' and huntin'.

LOL, talk about FUD! I'd like to see you beat a concealed carry charge by citing 12027g when you aren't in very close proximity to a spot where hunting is legal.

You pull that in the bay area or LA or Sacramento and the court will simply laugh at you and stuff you in a cell.

As for 12027h, again, good luck getting that to hold up in court without A) the papers to prove your status as carrier or employee or B) a sworn statement from a carrier that you are his employee(and even this is still pretty dicey).

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 9:12 AM
Who you talking to?
Everyone.

sholling
07-02-2013, 9:17 AM
Where did you get this from? If you're talking about language that reads "for a lawful purpose", driving to mcdonalds to get lunch is a lawful purpose. Being the getaway driver for a bank robbery is not.
It is my understanding that lawful purpose refers to the weapon, not the driver. In other words the handgun is being transported for the lawful purposes of a range trip or to go hunting. However feel free to make the argument in court that you were planning on feeding your handgun a Big Mac or that you've decided that you're going have a gun in your car 24x7. Since "bear" in any form is not yet recognised as a right it might be a challenge to prove that just driving around with a gun because you want to is a lawful purpose, but who knows, the judge might buy it. Personally I don't think it's worth the time, cost, and hassles when you can just use common sense and point out to the officer that "I'm going to the range" or "taking it to X". But please free to spend the time and money arguing with a police officer and the judge - you might win or at least have a case to challenge the constitutionality of the law. :rolleyes:

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 9:19 AM
LOL, talk about FUD! I'd like to see you beat a concealed carry charge by citing 12027g when you aren't in very close proximity to a spot where hunting is legal.

You pull that in the bay area or LA or Sacramento and the court will simply laugh at you and stuff you in a cell.

I can fish right behind my house; rivers, oceans, and hunting areas are never more than a few miles from any location in California...
I am willing and able to take the ride and beat the rap.

Findout
07-02-2013, 9:23 AM
I can fish right behind my house; rivers, oceans, and hunting areas are never more than a few miles from any location in California...
I am willing and able to take the ride and beat the rap.

Understand that I have no moral issue with what you're doing, none whatsoever. In fact I applaud anyone who stands up for what is right and doesn't let the Man hold them down.

That said, I do still think it's foolish to offer this as advice for anyone else to do, considering it will still very likely get you imprisoned if you end up getting caught somewhere that isn't obviously a hunting expedition. It's one thing to take the chance yourself, it's quite another to suggest others do so.

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 9:26 AM
12027g and h are clear as an unmuddied trout stream! IT IS NOT A CRIME TO CARRY A CONCEALED UNLOADED HANDGUN TO OR FROM ANY FISHING EXPEDITION IF YOU HAVE A FISHING LICENSE! Period!

-hanko
07-02-2013, 10:22 AM
And you need to understand the difference between "illegal" and "I'm going to do it anyway"
The difference is easily understood...

I do understand it's illegal...thought I was relatively clear on that. apparently not.

-hanko

Merc1138
07-02-2013, 10:47 AM
It is my understanding that lawful purpose refers to the weapon, not the driver. In other words the handgun is being transported for the lawful purposes of a range trip or to go hunting. However feel free to make the argument in court that you were planning on feeding your handgun a Big Mac or that you've decided that you're going have a gun in your car 24x7. Since "bear" in any form is not yet recognised as a right it might be a challenge to prove that just driving around with a gun because you want to is a lawful purpose, but who knows, the judge might buy it. Personally I don't think it's worth the time, cost, and hassles when you can just use common sense and point out to the officer that "I'm going to the range" or "taking it to X". But please free to spend the time and money arguing with a police officer and the judge - you might win or at least have a case to challenge the constitutionality of the law. :rolleyes:

If a range trip or hunting were the only "lawful purpose", then you wouldn't be able to... I dunno... take guns to a friend's house because you needed to use the vice in his garage. The problem with trying to state that lawful purpose = range or hunting, is that it would require a definition in the PC of what that lawful purpose is, to make everything else unlawful that isn't already unlawful due to other crimes already being committed.

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 11:00 AM
Pistol in a locked container (if your trunk locks it's considered a locked container) with ammunition in a separate container.

I dunno' how i missed it! Third post! second reply! 50% FUD.
Mr 1904, please stop spreading fud!

Dee_Dub
07-02-2013, 11:28 AM
Travis,

When you do get your CCW, this:

Very nice

Findout
07-02-2013, 12:10 PM
12027g and h are clear as an unmuddied trout stream! IT IS NOT A CRIME TO CARRY A CONCEALED UNLOADED HANDGUN TO OR FROM ANY FISHING EXPEDITION IF YOU HAVE A FISHING LICENSE! Period!

Good luck convincing a police officer you are on your way to or from a fishing expedition when you're leaving the walmart parking lot at 9pm with a cart full of milk and ice cream. Are people really this daft, or are you trying to bait people into illegalities for the purpose of LOLing at them and saying "I told you so!"?

Librarian
07-02-2013, 12:10 PM
It is my understanding that lawful purpose refers to the weapon, not the driver. In other words the handgun is being transported for the lawful purposes of a range trip or to go hunting. However feel free to make the argument in court that you were planning on feeding your handgun a Big Mac or that you've decided that you're going have a gun in your car 24x7. Since "bear" in any form is not yet recognised as a right it might be a challenge to prove that just driving around with a gun because you want to is a lawful purpose, but who knows, the judge might buy it. Personally I don't think it's worth the time, cost, and hassles when you can just use common sense and point out to the officer that "I'm going to the range" or "taking it to X". But please free to spend the time and money arguing with a police officer and the judge - you might win or at least have a case to challenge the constitutionality of the law. :rolleyes:

The 'lawful purpose' consideration is for out of motor vehicle transport; in a motor vehicle, the transport itself is not regulated. There may be issues with destinations or areas passed through (e.g. post offices and military installations). See the wiki, again -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 4:39 PM
Good luck convincing a police officer you are on your way to or from a fishing expedition when you're leaving the walmart parking lot at 9pm with a cart full of milk and ice cream. Are people really this daft, or are you trying to bait people into illegalities for the purpose of LOLing at them and saying "I told you so!"?

I almost always stop at walmart prior to a fishing/hunting expedition.
I am not my brother's keeper.
I dont drink milk, its poisonous.

My 100% correct, cogent, concise recitation of the LAW is not "bait".(there are not many absolute statements made on calguns that you can take to the bank, mine however, you can).
Your concerns about other people are admirable, your disdain for their ability to make their own decisions based on the letter of the law is repugnant.

sholling
07-02-2013, 9:06 PM
If a range trip or hunting were the only "lawful purpose", then you wouldn't be able to... I dunno... take guns to a friend's house because you needed to use the vice in his garage. The problem with trying to state that lawful purpose = range or hunting, is that it would require a definition in the PC of what that lawful purpose is, to make everything else unlawful that isn't already unlawful due to other crimes already being committed.
I stand corrected.

Merc1138
07-02-2013, 9:23 PM
I stand corrected.

Just because I was in the middle of typing a response, I'll still post the image I was going to use since I went through the effort of spending 20 seconds to find it:

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2007-02/giant-sink-hole-guatemala.jpg

I'll leave what the comment was to the imagination since it's no longer relevant after you updated your post :p

But yeah, a poorly worded and vague law(that only applies to outside the car anyway as Librarian pointed out) shouldn't really be relied upon to try and figure out what we can't do, when we have no proper definitions in the PC or court cases to show otherwise.

BTW, yes you could easily make an argument that you need that fresh hashbrown grease from mcd's in the morning to lube your firearms, since those hashbrown things aren't useful for much else other than giving yourself the runs.

negolien
07-02-2013, 10:21 PM
Let's not get to far off the original topic please. Ammo doesn't mean squat because unless you have a LTC having a firearm in the vehicle for defense is not smart imo. Not only is it going to be difficult to get it out and ready in time to defend yourself but even if by some miracle you do ... The government is going to use that to squash you like a bug. I mean look at George getting railroaded and he is legally carrying. Imagine what they would do to you if you use a gun in self defense that you were hauling around "just to use in self defense"... Come on think about it.

-hanko
07-02-2013, 10:27 PM
I almost always stop at walmart prior to a fishing/hunting expedition.
I am not my brother's keeper.
I dont drink milk, its poisonous.

My 100% correct, cogent, concise recitation of the LAW is not "bait".(there are not many absolute statements made on calguns that you can take to the bank, mine however, you can).
Your concerns about other people are admirable, your disdain for their ability to make their own decisions based on the letter of the law is repugnant.
How quickly some learn Nanny State stuff from California's predominant legislative party. :rolleyes:

Glad I reside most of the time in a more free state.

-hanko

johnny1290
07-02-2013, 11:06 PM
My 2 cents:

I locked container with loaded mags (not in magwell) is legal in CA. That doesn't mean you won't get arrested for it, as another calgunner has. You can beat the rap but not the ride.

If you want to beat the ride, keep it in a locked container in your trunk with unloaded mags, and have the ammo in a separate container.

When I got pulled over on the way to the range that's how I had my guns anyway when they searched my car, and the locks on the cases prevented them from looking at my firearms. Not that there was anything to see, but that's not the point. They asked to search my car, and acted like they got away with some great sneak move by searching the trunk as well as interior.

Oh, if you deny them access to search, you're begging them to arrest you and impound your car to search, as they did to another calgunner.

You can exercise your rights, but that doesn't mean there isn't a price to pay. I'm poor, I don't push my luck, and I don't want to go to jail, so I'm no big talker like one or two guys on here are.

DannyInSoCal
07-02-2013, 11:18 PM
Why not Unloaded Locked Concealed Carry? Get an Allen locking soft nylon case, keep unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same locked case.

Then you can carry it on you, in the glove box or under the seat.

ULCC changed drastically over the last two years.

I used to ULCC in my briefcase until the laws changed making it the same violation as carrying loaded concealed without a permit.

The explanation given to me was:

You can ULCC while driving your vehicle to the park -

However if you then carry the container with you while walking around the park you are in violation of the law.

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 11:37 PM
Let's not get to far off the original topic please. Ammo doesn't mean squat because unless you have a LTC having a firearm in the vehicle for defense is not smart imo. Not only is it going to be difficult to get it out and ready in time to defend yourself but even if by some miracle you do ... The government is going to use that to squash you like a bug. I mean look at George getting railroaded and he is legally carrying. Imagine what they would do to you if you use a gun in self defense that you were hauling around "just to use in self defense"... Come on think about it.

I sum up your position like this: Since its difficult or impossible to get a license for my rights, i should run away or just die if assaulted by criminals because having the option of a working handgun in 3-5 seconds is not worth the hassle.

Falstaff
07-02-2013, 11:45 PM
ULCC changed drastically over the last two years.

I used to ULCC of the law.

What changed? Ulcc outside a motor vehicle is iffy, but i thought that was because of the vagueness of the statute's verbage with regard to transport in other than a motor vehicle.

California44
07-02-2013, 11:49 PM
Gun and ammo in trunk. Never have loaded mag in gun.

Librarian
07-03-2013, 2:05 AM
When going from car to range... I see many folks using a range bag (no lock, obvious). So, these folks are violating the law?

If the range were outdoors, and the parking lot was part of that same target range facility/complex, that would be an ... unusually ... strict interpretation of the law.

If an indoor range, and you have to use public sidewalk to enter the building, handguns should be in locked cases (which might be inside an unlocked range bag), long guns should be cased (etc.)

negolien
07-03-2013, 5:24 AM
I sum up your position like this: Since its difficult or impossible to get a license for my rights, i should run away or just die if assaulted by criminals because having the option of a working handgun in 3-5 seconds is not worth the hassle.

No you should get a ltc I did and a lot of other people did also. Making excuses that it's too hard so you're going to do something illegal screws righteous gun owners.

glockman19
07-03-2013, 6:50 AM
ULCC changed drastically over the last two years.

I used to ULCC in my briefcase until the laws changed making it the same violation as carrying loaded concealed without a permit.

The explanation given to me was:

You can ULCC while driving your vehicle to the park -

However if you then carry the container with you while walking around the park you are in violation of the law.

Danny,

The prescribed lawfull way to transport any handgun is unloaded in a locked case.

Hoshnasi
07-03-2013, 7:11 AM
My 2 cents:

I locked container with loaded mags (not in magwell) is legal in CA. That doesn't mean you won't get arrested for it, as another calgunner has. You can beat the rap but not the ride.

If you want to beat the ride, keep it in a locked container in your trunk with unloaded mags, and have the ammo in a separate container.

When I got pulled over on the way to the range that's how I had my guns anyway when they searched my car, and the locks on the cases prevented them from looking at my firearms. Not that there was anything to see, but that's not the point. They asked to search my car, and acted like they got away with some great sneak move by searching the trunk as well as interior.

Oh, if you deny them access to search, you're begging them to arrest you and impound your car to search, as they did to another calgunner.

You can exercise your rights, but that doesn't mean there isn't a price to pay. I'm poor, I don't push my luck, and I don't want to go to jail, so I'm no big talker like one or two guys on here are.

I understand that you appreciate the word of the law and understand it. However, much of your post sounds like you're advocating for seperate locked containers and allowing the police to not only search the interior of your car but also the trunk without probable cause and your reason is

-They'll impound car.
-Going to arrest if you don't consent.

Neither of these are true 100% of the time.

If you decline the trunk search and they still feel they have probable cause and continue they will only find your legally locked container (if you have one). Or your legally unloaded firearm. Either way, if you conduct yourself in a respectful manor will most likely (my estimate) not end up in a "ride".

-hanko
07-03-2013, 10:04 AM
No you should get a ltc I did and a lot of other people did also. Making excuses that it's too hard so you're going to do something illegal screws righteous gun owners.
:sleeping:

Getting an ltc in SAC seems to be somewhat easier than in San Mateo County.;)

It's not "too hard", it's impossible as I don't have $10K to contribute to the Sheriff's next election.

"Righteous gun owners" are screwed no more than other drivers are screwed by someone popped for a dui.

Merc1138
07-03-2013, 10:45 AM
No you should get a ltc I did and a lot of other people did also. Making excuses that it's too hard so you're going to do something illegal screws righteous gun owners.

LOL, you might want to try actually visiting reality once in a while before telling people they should just "get an LTC" since it's not possible in quite a few counties.

Hoshnasi
07-03-2013, 11:56 AM
No you should get a ltc I did and a lot of other people did also. Making excuses that it's too hard so you're going to do something illegal screws righteous gun owners.

Lol, that comment is the same as saying "Walk it off" when someone has an arterial wound.

negolien
07-03-2013, 11:11 PM
LOL, you might want to try actually visiting reality once in a while before telling people they should just "get an LTC" since it's not possible in quite a few counties.

Then you should invest in Pepper Spray. I find it amusing the in areas that you "can't" get a LTC you think hauling around a firearm in your car without a license is the answer rather than looking at your legal options. Thanks for screwing over law biding gun owners.:facepalm: Good luck with your defense if you ever have to use it. That is if you can get it out of your locked container before the crimes over :rolleyes:

Librarian
07-04-2013, 12:04 AM
Then you should invest in Pepper Spray. I find it amusing the in areas that you "can't" get a LTC you think hauling around a firearm in your car without a license is the answer rather than looking at your legal options. Thanks for screwing over law biding gun owners.:facepalm: Good luck with your defense if you ever have to use it. That is if you can get it out of your locked container before the crimes over :rolleyes:

You are in Sacramento. Aside from the 'appointment problem', Sacramento is a 'good' place to be to get LTC. LTC would be the right answer - but it isn't available everywhere, and criticism for not getting one is misplaced.

It is a legal option to carry an unloaded handgun in a locked case in one's vehicle (I prefer a shotgun or milsurp rifle - locked case issue is substantially smaller). The practicality is for a different thread -- and if one cannot get the 'best', it is not unreasonable to seek a substitute.

A good self defense shooting is still good whether performed with a legally carried concealed weapon with LTC, or with a 'get, load, fire' handgun or long gun - either way, the shooting will be investigated.

Merc1138
07-04-2013, 12:11 AM
Then you should invest in Pepper Spray. I find it amusing the in areas that you "can't" get a LTC you think hauling around a firearm in your car without a license is the answer rather than looking at your legal options. Thanks for screwing over law biding gun owners.:facepalm: Good luck with your defense if you ever have to use it. That is if you can get it out of your locked container before the crimes over :rolleyes:

You just love jumping to conclusions, don't you? I never said anything about keeping a gun in my car at all times, didn't say anything(in this thread) about where I lived that would indicate LTC being possible or not, made no mention that would indicate that I don't have pepper spray somewhere, yet somehow you've got all the answers.

Also, as far as "screwing over law abiding gun owners", you might want to make sure you understand the laws before you try to claim that you're somehow being screwed by other people following them(especially since you don't even have a vague familiarity with the state of 2a in CA if your response is just "get a LTC").

Now if you had told me to just go win the lottery...

TeddyBallgame
07-04-2013, 1:11 AM
http://static.neatorama.com/images/2007-02/giant-sink-hole-guatemala.jpg
wow, what caliber is that?

Merc1138
07-04-2013, 1:24 AM
wow, what caliber is that?
.50
BRQqieimwLQ

negolien
07-04-2013, 2:03 AM
You are in Sacramento. Aside from the 'appointment problem', Sacramento is a 'good' place to be to get LTC. LTC would be the right answer - but it isn't available everywhere, and criticism for not getting one is misplaced.

It is a legal option to carry an unloaded handgun in a locked case in one's vehicle (I prefer a shotgun or milsurp rifle - locked case issue is substantially smaller). The practicality is for a different thread -- and if one cannot get the 'best', it is not unreasonable to seek a substitute.

A good self defense shooting is still good whether performed with a legally carried concealed weapon with LTC, or with a 'get, load, fire' handgun or long gun - either way, the shooting will be investigated.

Yes that's the issue isn't it though. Whether carrying an unloaded firearm in a locked container in a vehicle for self defense was viable.

The practicality is part of the topic also and imo it seems it would not be very viable in a self defense scenario considering how fast and fluid they tend to be albeit it would depend on the threat.

I didn't say it was unreasonable to seek a substitute but to me trying to skirt the law would be both unwise and unsafe. The more you have a weapon in the vehicle you can't actually carry the more you put yourself and others at risk as most of the time it would be unattended except for the brief drive to your location. It seems to me finding a truly viable defense would be better time spent.

"A good self defense shooting is still good whether performed with a legally carried concealed weapon with LTC, or with a 'get, load, fire' handgun or long gun"

That assertion I have issue with as most legal shoots turn into a nightmare for the shooter even if it was a legal shoot. You of all people should know this and I think you do. :inquis: You well know that the prosecutor would paint someone trying to skirt the law by using a locked container firearm for defense in a vehicle in a bad light. To think that the prosecutor won't try and nail you to the cross as a vigilante type looking for a fight is rather naïve don't you think? Just look at the Zimmerman case and although there is some difference as far as profiling is concerned he was well within his rights yet was still painted as a vigilante type.

If someone wants to roll the dice and risk firearm theft, prosecution and having his own weapon taken used on him that's his right. That doesn't mean we should just act like sheep and say it's his right. It's someone's right to jump out of a plane without a chute to that doesn't make it any less stupid does it?

TeddyBallgame
07-04-2013, 3:14 AM
The practicality is part of the topic also and imo it seems it would not be very viable in a self defense scenario considering how fast and fluid they tend to be albeit it would depend on the threat.Way too many scenarios to justify not being prepared...not every threat just manifests without a chance to defend yourself...fact would be, most threats can be foreseen, especially if a person is consistent with knowing their surroundings...In any event, I would much rather have the "chance" to defend myself, versus, being outnumbered or out gunned

TeddyBallgame
07-04-2013, 3:26 AM
I didn't say it was unreasonable to seek a substitute but to me trying to skirt the law would be both unwise and unsafe. The more you have a weapon in the vehicle you can't actually carry the more you put yourself and others at risk as most of the time it would be unattended except for the brief drive to your location. It seems to me finding a truly viable defense would be better time spent.that's not skirting the law, its actually playing by their rules...we do it all the time, that's how the bullet button was born...they didn't want you having a firearm without a fixed magazine, so a law was created...the bullet button now makes our magazine situation legal, although many would say we skirted the law by employing it

You're assuming a whole lot of things with your argument, and, I would be the last one to make more out of it then need be, but, I will always stand on the side of people having the right to protect themselves ANYWHERE, home, office, road or sidewalk...I'm also well aware of any risk that I am taking on, due to my convictions, and, actions...I still stand behind what I, or, anyone else does, within the boundaries of the law, in protecting themselves...you sir, have a particular way of thinking, and, we differ...let's hope neither one of us ever find ourselves in a situation where we may have to rethink our decisions :)

TeddyBallgame
07-04-2013, 3:41 AM
Back around 1975 my dad was robbed in the parking lot of a Norm's restaurant...he was there around midnight, waiting to pick up my sister from her waitressing shift...long story short, a man walked up to my dad, who had his left hand resting on the open window sill, grabbed his watch and took off running

at that point, my dad had a choice...he could've shot the robber, with the .38 snub nose revolver that he had in his RIGHT hand, or, he could just let him go...he chose to let him go, he felt shooting a fleeing man over a $100 wristwatch wasn't worth it to him

other than some skin that got pulled off his hand, from the watch being ripped off his wrist, my dad was fine, he learned a lesson about maybe rolling up his window late at night, although he shouldn't have to...my point is, anyone carrying, whether legally or non legally, as my dad was, his only interest was protecting his life...the threat didn't rise to that level, he refrained and learned a lesson...his belief was always that no one was going to tell him he couldn't protect himself...I carry that same belief

btw, my sister bought him a new watch :)

-hanko
07-04-2013, 6:45 AM
:sleeping:

Then you should invest in Pepper Spray. I find it amusing the in areas that you "can't" get a LTC you think hauling around a firearm in your car without a license is the answer rather than looking at your legal options.

It's the best option. Once again, I fully realize it's not legal in California. Still my choice, not yours. :rolleyes:


Thanks for screwing over law biding gun owners.:facepalm:

Once again, since you could not answer the first time, HOW does it "screw over law ABIDING gun owners. Maybe like a dui ruins it for all drivers, hunting after sunset ruins it for all hunters, painting your house purple ruins it for all homeowners, etc. :rolleyes:


Good luck with your defense if you ever have to use it.

Since you've postured yourself as the resident legal genius, how about citing a case where a good self-defense shoot was ruined by a shooter carrying concealed without a license to carry. Just one? :rolleyes:


That is if you can get it out of your locked container before the crimes over :rolleyes:

6 to 7 seconds to load open the Halliburton, drop the slide, and have the weppin' in my hand.

Faster if it's holstered.;)

Cool story, beyond all that...though the stupidity, lack of logic, and naivete' is rampant.

Happy 4th

-hanko

sharxbyte
07-04-2013, 7:55 AM
if it's in a locked container, and the mags aren;t in the pistol, there's no "separate locked container requirement" if I remember correctly.

IANAL

negolien
07-04-2013, 1:33 PM
Threads like this are basically just off topic troll fests that make gun owners look retarded to non gun cultured Americans so... I'll stick with my LTC and common sense action plan that might actually help me in a defense situation and you all can type on a forum how you're planning on fending of the hordes with your locked firearms :rolleyes: :lurk5:

California44
07-05-2013, 5:05 PM
If the range were outdoors, and the parking lot was part of that same target range facility/complex, that would be an ... unusually ... strict interpretation of the law.

If an indoor range, and you have to use public sidewalk to enter the building, handguns should be in locked cases (which might be inside an unlocked range bag), long guns should be cased (etc.)

Does putting a cable lock on the pistol count? It seems odd that if I go to shoot 2 or three pistols that the locked container would be sizable.

Librarian
07-05-2013, 6:10 PM
Does putting a cable lock on the pistol count? It seems odd that if I go to shoot 2 or three pistols that the locked container would be sizable.

No. Cable locks are 'check-off items' for ffls - gotta have some kind of 'safety device' before an FFL is allowed to complete the transfer.

After you walk out of the shop, cable locks have no connection to transport, unless you use one to lock a case.

Librarian
07-05-2013, 9:59 PM
I have a stack-on version of this one (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Gun-Storage/Gun-Cases|/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104368680/Gun-Guard8482-Two-Pistol-Case/733603.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FN %3D1100211%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd733603&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd733603%3Bcat104368680) from Cabela's - mine did not cost $54. Lots of options available.

DannyInSoCal
07-05-2013, 10:11 PM
Threads like this are basically just off topic troll fests that make gun owners look retarded to non gun cultured Americans so... I'll stick with my LTC and common sense action plan that might actually help me in a defense situation and you all can type on a forum how you're planning on fending of the hordes with your locked firearms :rolleyes: :lurk5:

Then excuse yourself from these threads instead of having a "I got mine - You guys don't deserve protection" crappy attitude.

Here in OC getting a LTC is nearly impossible.

Some people on here are such asshats - It's really pathetic.

Carry on.....

California44
07-05-2013, 10:12 PM
I think this might work too to avoid two separate bags (bulk). Anyone use these soft cases with a lock added?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Gun-Storage/Gun-Cases%7C/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104368680/Cabelas-Snug-Fit-Pistol-Case/1168232.uts?WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd733603%3Bcat104368680

with

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Gun-Storage/Gun-Cases%7C/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104368680/Safe-Skies8482-TSA-Cable-Lock/1393912.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fgun-cases%2F_%2FN-1100211%2B4294715756%2FNe-4294715756%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd733603%26WTz_st% 3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd733603%3Bcat104368680

TeddyBallgame
07-06-2013, 2:27 AM
I think this might work too to avoid two separate bags (bulk). Anyone use these soft cases with a lock added?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Gun-Storage/Gun-Cases%7C/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104368680/Cabelas-Snug-Fit-Pistol-Case/1168232.uts?WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd733603%3Bcat104368680

with

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Gun-Storage/Gun-Cases%7C/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104368680/Safe-Skies8482-TSA-Cable-Lock/1393912.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fgun-cases%2F_%2FN-1100211%2B4294715756%2FNe-4294715756%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd733603%26WTz_st% 3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd733603%3Bcat104368680that's pretty expensive for the TSA lock at Cabela's...I bought one online for $4.99, could've gotten a 4-pack in assorted colors for $15.99...I use the TSA lock when transporting my M&P 15 in its carry bag

MaHoTex
07-06-2013, 8:57 AM
Ok so I'm going to be getting my CCW soon but in the mean time, what is the legal way to carry a handgun in my vehicle for self defense purposes? In the trunk unloaded? Locked in a case? Id rather not carry a long gun due to the fact I don't want to advertise I carry to my neighbors by carrying a long gun to and from my car daily. Also how and where could I store loaded mags? I know they can't really be near the gun. Thanks guys.

Get a small briefcase with the 3 digit dial locks and preset the combo (perhaps minus a single click of the last one on one side only) and keep it on the seat next to you. Stick a couple of mags in the cup holder (or in the case if you so choose) and go on with your life.

-hanko
07-06-2013, 10:37 AM
Get a small briefcase with the 3 digit dial locks and preset the combo (perhaps minus a single click of the last one on one side only) and keep it on the seat next to you. Stick a couple of mags in the cup holder (or in the case if you so choose) and go on with your life.
Exactly.

Again, thanks Halliburton. ;)

Shasta Frog
07-06-2013, 10:48 AM
I have a G.P.S. range bag that I absolutely love. I can fit 3-4 guns and all the rest of my gear in it and it has lockable zippers or you can even padlock the zippers.