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View Full Version : Army to keep the M4A1 indefinitely..


Dave07997S
06-14-2013, 4:35 PM
http://breakingdefense.com/2013/06/14/army-killed-new-carbine-because-it-wasnt-twice-as-good-as-current-m4/?test=latestnews

Eldraque
06-14-2013, 4:41 PM
"If it ain't broke..."

Varg Vikernes
06-14-2013, 5:12 PM
Either that or they are broke

MrPlink
06-14-2013, 5:12 PM
A conspiracy. . . .

frankm
06-14-2013, 9:24 PM
Meanwhile in the Marine Corps, M16A4.

milw50717
06-14-2013, 9:49 PM
Nothing is forever, but I look forward to a surplus of 5.56

TMcGuff
06-14-2013, 9:51 PM
Meanwhile in the Marine Corps, M16A4.

haha ya no **** right. one of our boots was carrying the exact m16a4 that our battalion sgt maj used when he was a boot.

MrPlink
06-14-2013, 10:08 PM
When my buddy was on his first deployment in Iraq with the USMC he got an A2, and noted how some of the younger guys in his unit were not as old as the rifles they were issued

armygunsmith
06-14-2013, 10:17 PM
http://breakingdefense.com/2013/06/14/army-killed-new-carbine-because-it-wasnt-twice-as-good-as-current-m4/?test=latestnews

I see your electric raspberry. Tropic lightning!

Dave07997S
06-14-2013, 11:06 PM
I see your electric raspberry. Tropic lightning!

Yea...B.Co. 1/14th Infantry...back when they were still Light Infantry (1982-1986)...just aged myself.

Dave

smittty
06-15-2013, 5:44 AM
Current guns average 1,691 rounds before jamming and they want a gun capable of 3,592 rounds before stoppage.

What's the Izhmash AK-101's stoppage average?

DFence
06-15-2013, 5:49 AM
Current guns average 1,691 rounds before jamming and they want a gun capable of 3,592 rounds before stoppage.

What's the Izhmash AK-101's stoppage average?

What's a jamming?

mrvash
06-15-2013, 7:25 AM
Jamming is a term commonly used to describe a malfunction of a firearm. Although, for each malfunction, there are proper terms that can be applicable.

DFence
06-15-2013, 7:28 AM
Oh so like the clip in my assault rifle made it jam?

DFence
06-15-2013, 7:57 AM
:sarcasm:

Sorry forgot the sarcasm smiley!

m03
06-15-2013, 9:19 AM
Current guns average 1,691 rounds before jamming and they want a gun capable of 3,592 rounds before stoppage.


So they'd rather have one that has a stoppage every 1,691 rounds than to have one that has a stoppage every 3,400 rounds...

Anyway, the answer at this point is to properly maintain existing weapons, replace parts on a regular schedule, and replace old magazines with new magazines.

Unfortunately, what will ultimately happen is that they'll eventually fail to maintain the weapons, fail to replace parts, and keep old magazines forever. At least with some of the competing weapons systems, this inevitable conclusions would have been less of an issue.

Knife Edge
06-15-2013, 10:15 AM
Expect more machine gunners in the USMC ;)

dok
06-15-2013, 10:22 AM
A jam is a stoppage but a stoppage is not necessarily a jam.Front sight defines a jam as requiring dissasembly of the weapon to correct.I believe they used the same definition in my pc832 course 25 years ago.

PolishMike
06-15-2013, 10:25 AM
That program was ****ed from the start.

The M855A1 round has been destroying guns. Then the manufactures that wanted to participate in this program only got 10,800 rounds for testing. The Army is the ONLY place to get ammo so they could literally only do the test 3 times before formal submission.

That being said it is tough to justify a 1.6billion purchase for a carbine that performs marginally better than the current system.

m03
06-15-2013, 10:36 AM
That being said it is tough to justify a 1.6billion purchase for a carbine that performs marginally better than the current system.

With that marginal improvement comes saved lives (less stoppages in the heat of combat) and less need to replace parts as frequently (for instance, I believe the SCAR has an individual barrel life of 35,000+ rounds and an individual service life of 90,000 rounds).

Both of those things involve long-term cost savings that are hard to quantify up front.

Shrubmaster
06-15-2013, 10:43 AM
this firearm will not need to be replaced because the soldier is being replaced.

full on drone/robotic warfare.

ScottyBear
06-15-2013, 2:28 PM
There eventually will be a replacement platform, but there is so many small arms M4s in circulation and with the wars winding down no real need for them at this point..

Cato
06-15-2013, 2:38 PM
Until laser guns are perfected, the M4 will do.

dc2integra
06-15-2013, 3:39 PM
Oh were keeping the m4 alright . We are broke as a joke when it comes to giving us the soldiers gear. But we still have so many damn contractors out here in country making 100k plus for doing squat. Go figure.

Dhena81
06-16-2013, 8:58 AM
With that marginal improvement comes saved lives (less stoppages in the heat of combat) and less need to replace parts as frequently (for instance, I believe the SCAR has an individual barrel life of 35,000+ rounds and an individual service life of 90,000 rounds).

Both of those things involve long-term cost savings that are hard to quantify up front.

What is so special with FN's barrel that makes it last 3 times as long as another barrel? Serious question because it sounds like a bunch of BS to me and has nothing to do with the platform.

Munny$hot
06-16-2013, 9:03 AM
What is so special with FN's barrel that makes it last 3 times as long as another barrel? Serious question because it sounds like a bunch of BS to me and has nothing to do with the platform.
IIRC its because of the double chrome lining and hammer forging.

FeuerFrei
06-16-2013, 9:53 AM
At least the soldiers are gonna have a weapon that has a rock-n-roll switch in stead of the silly 3 round burst crap. Better trigger feel anyway.

MrPlink
06-16-2013, 11:50 AM
What is so special with FN's barrel that makes it last 3 times as long as another barrel? Serious question because it sounds like a bunch of BS to me and has nothing to do with the platform.

Same thing that makes Ak barrels last longer, heavy chrome lining.
it's not found here because of the EPA

Dhena81
06-16-2013, 11:52 AM
IIRC its because of the double chrome lining and hammer forging.

So the FN M16 barrels last 35,000 rounds lol ok. I guess I'll believe it when we know the firing schedules and documented proof of what MOA is considered a pass.

Dhena81
06-16-2013, 11:54 AM
Same thing that makes Ak barrels last longer, heavy chrome lining.
it's not found here because of the EPA

Does the EPA regulate a certain compound that is in foreign chrome lining?

MrPlink
06-16-2013, 1:43 PM
Couldn't tell you the technical details as to why it politest more, but I've heard this numerous times from manufacturers and IIRC more recently from Larry Vickers

MrPlink
06-16-2013, 1:45 PM
PS, FN guns used by the MIL are made here, so they would not have the heavier chrome lining