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View Full Version : Saiga Bullet Guide Install gone wrong...


Letterman52
12-27-2012, 10:37 PM
So.... I have installed this guide a few times without any issues. Well today while installing the bullet guide onto my newer Saiga 7.62X39 the tap broke off inside the lower trunion part. It broke of clean so I could probably just call it and use the rifle as is, but we all know it would nag any sane person over time. So my question is how do I get the broken tap piece out? Ideas?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
12-27-2012, 11:13 PM
Broken tap extractor (http://www.waltontools.com/products/remvtap.htm). Another option is to have it EDM'd out.

Ryan in SD
12-28-2012, 3:33 AM
Depends what kind of tap it is, also burn/cut with used up carbide bottom cutting end mill then punch out remaining fragments.

kcstott
12-28-2012, 4:49 AM
Depends what kind of tap it is, also burn/cut with used up carbide bottom cutting end mill then punch out remaining fragments.

Thats the way I do it. Never had any luck with tap extractors. So I just use carbide. and When in a shop with an EDM obviously use the EDM.

sd_shooter
12-28-2012, 6:09 AM
You could also just weld it through the hole. Grind flush if necessary, use instant blue to mask the spot.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
12-28-2012, 12:54 PM
Depends what kind of tap it is, also burn/cut with used up carbide bottom cutting end mill then punch out remaining fragments.

I'd agree if this were a through hole, but have never tried either on a blind hole, which is what I think the OP is dealing with. Have you, and did it work?

nick
12-28-2012, 1:04 PM
So.... I have installed this guide a few times without any issues. Well today while installing the bullet guide onto my newer Saiga 7.62X39 the tap broke off inside the lower trunion part. It broke of clean so I could probably just call it and use the rifle as is, but we all know it would nag any sane person over time. So my question is how do I get the broken tap piece out? Ideas?

Had that happen to me. Was it a CSS tap? The stuff they send with their kits truly is single-use, if that. Also, heat treating is different on different Saiga trunnions. I had two easy-to-drill and tap trunnions, and then the third one (the one where the tap got broken) was a ***** to both drill and tap, it was so hard.

Mine got extracted by welding a rod to it and pulling it out.

kcstott
12-28-2012, 2:23 PM
I'd agree if this were a through hole, but have never tried either on a blind hole, which is what I think the OP is dealing with. Have you, and did it work?

As with most things it's not the tools but the technique the wins. Yes it can be done in a blind hole what you have to do is use a brand new end mill with the full knowledge that your end mill may well be in pieces after the fact. Speed it way up and peck away with it, blowing chips out as you go.

Now this is also done in a machine vise on a Bridgeport in a collet. If your set up is less rigid then this all bets are off.

Letterman52
12-28-2012, 2:35 PM
Had that happen to me. Was it a CSS tap? The stuff they send with their kits truly is single-use, if that. Also, heat treating is different on different Saiga trunnions. I had two easy-to-drill and tap trunnions, and then the third one (the one where the tap got broken) was a ***** to both drill and tap, it was so hard.

Mine got extracted by welding a rod to it and pulling it out.

Yes it was a CSS tap. Lesson learned there. Never again am I buying them. I do agree it might of been my technique as well. I think I might of rushed it slightly. I ended up heating up the broken tap and backing it out with a miniature flat head screwdriver and a mallet. Just a few small taps and it came right out. Thankfully I wasn't that far down when it snapped. I went to Lowe's and returned the broken tap as well. So all is well. Thanks for all the advice above and below. Thanks again Calgunners.

CptDan
12-28-2012, 5:54 PM
Look up using acid to fracture the tap, I have done this a long time ago and it does work and it does take some time for the acid to get to the tap. Acid will eat at a tap and leave the base metal pretty much undamage. This is about using a small eye dropper or syringe to put a small dot of acid on the tap. It will start to bubble and fiz after that, one can use a small drift and tapping on the broken tap will fracture the tap flutes and it will fall through. I'll search for the company that sold that kit. later>>>>>

SJgunguy24
12-28-2012, 6:42 PM
I just get a punch and hit it a few times. Those things are brittle enough they tend to keep shattering until the hole is clear.

kcstott
12-28-2012, 6:58 PM
FYI
Taps to use by brand. In order of my person experience and preference.
Brubaker
Reiff and Nestor
Greenfield
Hanson
OSG
Pittsburgh (not harbor freight)
These are common brands easy to find at most tooling supply houses. Rutland, MSC etc.
Brownell's uses Hanson as their custom tap company for most of their gunsmith specific taps.
Also anything from Manson tools or PT&G i'd bet my reputation on any day of the week.

Taps not to use.
Hardware store kits, Cheepo depot, Lowe's, Ace, Dixieline house brand stuff.
Craftsman branded(sorry I own a lot of sears and Craftsman tools but their taps suck)
Sears does sell Hanson taps in kits so don't turn your nose up. look for the brand name on the tap.
Nearly anything from a third world country with the exception of the following
Yugoslavia which is now broken up into multiple other countries.
Macedonia
Poland

Now you should always specify HSS, High speed steel. Carbon taps are cheeper but dull faster and will break in aluminum very easily. Yes aluminum. Black carbon steel taps should not be used in aluminum as the aluminum will stick to it and clog then cause the tap to break.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
12-28-2012, 8:27 PM
I just get a punch and hit it a few times. Those things are brittle enough they tend to keep shattering until the hole is clear.

This was the technique I used when I broke a tap in a Draco rear trunnion. Used up the punch but eventually broke the tap up enough to drive it through the hole and out the other side.

G-forceJunkie
12-28-2012, 8:28 PM
Pittsburgh (not harbor freight)
These are common brands easy to find at most tooling supply houses. Rutland, MSC etc.


FYI, Rutland is out of business, got bought out by MSC.

kcstott
12-29-2012, 7:04 AM
Yeah and the rutland .com still links to MSC too. Force of habit

mxadam579
12-29-2012, 7:40 AM
have him file it down and then have him weld the bullet guide in

backstrap
12-29-2012, 8:03 AM
I just get a punch and hit it a few times. Those things are brittle enough they tend to keep shattering until the hole is clear.


Same here, doesn't even damage the hole. Do these taps fracture and weaken with use? I swear I use the same pressure but about the 3rd use these things always brake.

CAGLS
01-06-2013, 7:50 AM
Just wondering did you apply oil as suggested by CSS when trying to tap the hole? In the vid he says to go slow and 1/4 half turns to 1/2 rotation turns by feel (feeling if it starts to bind up) then back out the tap, use compressed air to get burrs out then continue in the same manner until it's done. This process takes alot of patience and to take your time.