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jkasandiego
07-31-2007, 1:06 PM
Thanks to all you guys,I've learned to reload my ammo.
Took my first batch to the range yesterday and it went bang:)
pics below is 55 gr. hornady v max with 24.5 gr IMR4064.
paper target shot at 100 yards with an Ar15 20" predator, scoped and bipod.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w93/kido58/291_9177.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w93/kido58/291_9180.jpg

Need input to improve accuracy

Jicko
07-31-2007, 1:10 PM
Seemingly the case trim length and OAL/seating-depth varies a lot from round to round, that maybe issues that you may have to address.

You should also chrono your rounds, to figure out the average & variance in muzzle velocities.

PS. since you are local to me, you can come use my chrono if you don't already have one. We can also work on this together @ Rainbow range somedays.... I'm working on those Mk262-like loads as well as some M118LR-like loads(w/ 173gr bullets tho)

Prc329
07-31-2007, 1:16 PM
How did you prep your cases? Seating depth loots off on a lot of them as well. The necks on 1,7 and 8 look strange to me. Also you may want to get yourself some bags or a rest to test for accuracy. Bipod jump could have played a part in this.

jkasandiego
07-31-2007, 1:23 PM
I'm on a learning process right now. Need more a lot of input to improve this hobby.

Budd
07-31-2007, 2:02 PM
:eek::eek:

maybe try seating some bullets without primers and powder to fix your seating depth problem. Get a bullet puller tool and unload those, please.

:eek::eek:

hybridatsun350
07-31-2007, 2:16 PM
Yea, your overall length and case trim length are all out of wack. What are you using to trim cases? What type of dies are you using?

jkasandiego
07-31-2007, 2:54 PM
:eek::eek:

maybe try seating some bullets without primers and powder to fix your seating depth problem. Get a bullet puller tool and unload those, please.

:eek::eek:

took the bullets off earlier.

jkasandiego
07-31-2007, 2:54 PM
Yea, your overall length and case trim length are all out of wack. What are you using to trim cases? What type of dies are you using?

I got RCBS dies..

jkasandiego
07-31-2007, 3:02 PM
Seemingly the case trim length and OAL/seating-depth varies a lot from round to round, that maybe issues that you may have to address.

You should also chrono your rounds, to figure out the average & variance in muzzle velocities.

PS. since you are local to me, you can come use my chrono if you don't already have one. We can also work on this together @ Rainbow range somedays.... I'm working on those Mk262-like loads as well as some M118LR-like loads(w/ 173gr bullets tho)

I just ordered the chrono. i should get it by next week. Where is rainbow range?
I'm also starting .308 handload for my M1a.

stator
07-31-2007, 3:46 PM
gas cycled semi-autos, whether by an gas piston/oprod (your M1A0 or impingment (your AR), are tough on brass. The extraction is violent because this happens while the brass is still hot and expanded. Thus the need for very good sizing dies properly setup and case trimming.

I use Redding competition dies which I find are better than RCBS. If the brass shown in your picture is once-fired then reloaded brass, I'd say that either your dies are not adjusted well, or you need to find better brass.

The most reloading cycles I use for the AR and M1A is 8 per brass cartridge. Afterwards, regardless of the shape of the brass, it only gets used in the bolt guns.

Gunsrruss
07-31-2007, 3:52 PM
I only run my .308 brass 5 times through the gas guns. But the .223 I am planing to run 7-8 times. I shoot the bolt brass till it splits unless I see it starting to fail. Get yourself the redding competiton seating die for .223, best 74.00 I ever spent, got one for .308 also:)





gas cycled semi-autos, whether by an gas piston/oprod (your M1A0 or impingment (your AR), are tough on brass. The extraction is violent because this happens while the brass is still hot and expanded. Thus the need for very good sizing dies properly setup and case trimming.

I use Redding competition dies which I find are better than RCBS. If the brass shown in your picture is once-fired then reloaded brass, I'd say that either your dies are not adjusted well, or you need to find better brass.

The most reloading cycles I use for the AR and M1A is 8 per brass cartridge. Afterwards, regardless of the shape of the brass, it only gets used in the bolt guns.

jkasandiego
07-31-2007, 4:04 PM
How did you prep your cases? Seating depth loots off on a lot of them as well. The necks on 1,7 and 8 look strange to me. .

1,7 and 8 look very strange. pictures won't lie.:)

PistolPete75
08-01-2007, 3:50 PM
ditto, oal seems to be inconsistant.

might also be a loose seating die. make sure it is properly screwed in right and tight. just like sex!

PistolPete75
08-01-2007, 3:58 PM
I only run my .308 brass 5 times through the gas guns. But the .223 I am planing to run 7-8 times. I shoot the bolt brass till it splits unless I see it starting to fail. Get yourself the redding competiton seating die for .223, best 74.00 I ever spent, got one for .308 also:)

i've been thinking of upgrading my .223 and .308 to these redding competition dies. do they work on progressives? reason being is i use my dillon 550 as a single stage to load match grade for these two calibers.

awheelman357
08-01-2007, 4:30 PM
the redding comp dies will work on your dillion ihave used on occasion with my 22-250 ackley imp.

jkasandiego
08-01-2007, 4:33 PM
ditto, oal seems to be inconsistant.

might also be a loose seating die. make sure it is properly screwed in right and tight. just like sex!

Just did some batches this morning. Brass trimmed and cleaned,correct powder measurement, seating die tight. This is addicting...:):)

PistolPete75
08-01-2007, 4:43 PM
Just did some batches this morning. Brass trimmed and cleaned,correct powder measurement, seating die tight. This is addicting...:):)


reloading is difinitely addicting. i've spent too much dough on reloading stuff, buy hey in the end you get soooo much more ammo to shoot that is quality.

in addition, the self gratification of seeing your work come together!

buying factory ammo to me is such a waste now. reload! ammo costs are only going to go up!

ibanezfoo
08-01-2007, 7:32 PM
That crimping around the neck on the round at the far right, is that once fired from a machine gun? I had a few casings with that weird crimp on them too.

-Bryan

jkasandiego
08-01-2007, 9:46 PM
That crimping around the neck on the round at the far right, is that once fired from a machine gun? I had a few casings with that weird crimp on them too.

-Bryan

I have a stash of once fired brass in my garage, which i kept. Been there for 9 years and 99% was fired from my rifle.

pklin1297
08-01-2007, 9:47 PM
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I've just started loading also and am wondering if a full-length sizing die is needed for .223? My Hornady die is only a neck sizer. Thanks.

ar15barrels
08-01-2007, 9:58 PM
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I've just started loading also and am wondering if a full-length sizing die is needed for .223? My Hornady die is only a neck sizer. Thanks.

You will absolutely need to full length size brass that's to be used in an autoloader.
When you get your full length die, make sure it's a small base die as well.

pklin1297
08-01-2007, 10:16 PM
Thank you Randall. Any brand you would recommend?

In Redding dies for example, does Type-S designate small base?

ar15barrels
08-02-2007, 9:21 AM
Thank you Randall. Any brand you would recommend?

In Redding dies for example, does Type-S designate small base?

Most new dies are made to small-base dimensions.
Just contact the manufacturer's to confirm before you buy.

Redding's Type-S is a bushing die that allows you to change the neck bushing and eliminate the expander button.

StukaJr
08-02-2007, 11:18 AM
What others have said ( wish I was first )

Get Lee's Trimmer tool, collet and shellholder - trim your cases after you size/decap your brass - makes all your brass the Maximum length. This aids in consistency and will prevent problems when brass gets too long - every time you resize your brass, it gets stretched little by little.

Get good calipers - set your bullets to consistent COL (start by what's in your manual)... Why are the bullets set to such inconsistent depths? Is that from experimenting with depth to get the correct sitting setting or because the Press arm still got movement after you've seated the bullet? For general purposes, +/- .003 of an inch is acceptable so you shouldn't be able to spot differences by eye.

Get a Lee's Factory crimp die - it's an extra step, but a heavy crimp aids in accuracy and checks the cartridge dimensions as well. Also, your bullets are held in a lot stronger - suggested for boxfed semi-auto's. It has an extra nanosecond before the bullet is pushed out of the cartridge and makes for more consistent pressure since your bullet is held in by case mouth tighter.

Do you sort your brass by headstamp? Looks like you got brass from different walks of life - if you want accuracy, make sure that you separate your brass into blocks of the same manufacturer... If you get anal-retentive, start weighing your brass to separate them into blocks of brass that's within a couple of grains of each other.

Get a "trickler" if you don't have one already. The best way to make sure that all of your rifle loads are within +/- .01 grain of the target load when you trickle in those lost tenths of a grain.

How did you come to choosing your load? I have no experience with that powder, but how do you know that 24.5 grain is the sweet spot? (According to IMR data, it's a little hot). Not all loads are necessarily accurate - somewhere between A (minimum) and Z(maximum) load, there is a tack driver. If you are shooting for accuracy - start somewhere in the middle between min and max and load 10 cartridges, then another 10 +.5 grain, then another 10 + another .5 until you get to where you either reach the Max or where you want to stop. Shoot them in that order and record the groups - you will notice groups tighten and loosen, one load being the sweetspot. Just because you get Mass FPS doesn't mean the load is accurate - quite the contrary, sometimes Max loads are less accurate than a load somewhere in the middle.

Shoot off a bag on either a "warm" barrel or running a dry patch through clean and cold barrel, smooth and slow. If you can borrow a "sled" or a benchrest - even better. You can't tell if it's a flier or you shooter's mistake unless you call every shot - how are your groups with factory ammo? Perhaps if you shoot two targets side by side (factory vs reloads) you'll see how your loads compare.

If you have a shooting buddy and have or rent a spotting scope - have him (or her) call out your hits. It's important to know the order in which those hits took place - did you make that "Mickey Mouse" head in the center in one string or are just random (but good looking) hits? Did you string nice tight grouping and then got tired and walked off? Also, are you shooting to one aiming spot or compensating to your point of impacts? The latter is not good for gauging your accuracy.

I have no idea of what your shooting skills and knowledge are - so don't take it as an insult if I tell the basic stuff :) But then again, your post needs more info - how many shots were fired? Are there total misses on that target? Did you flinch, led of course any of thsoe shots?

mecam
08-03-2007, 10:36 AM
I would recommend getting a .223 case gage to make sure you're within the recommended trim specs.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=268983&t=11082005