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View Full Version : FUD starting at Riverside Magnum Range?


stilly
07-07-2012, 7:00 PM
I go there a lot so this is not a bash thread but I was just looking for a second/third opinion on this.

I had finished shooting and was on my way out and I thought that I would ask the guy at the counter (manager, not the owner) if it was okay to bring my 7.62x25 carbine down. He did not know what that was and said no cause that is a hot round and will go right through and it is steel core and russian ammo etc. Then I said, No, it uses brass cased ammo that is not steel core. It is the same stuff you shoot out of the pistol. I think he got the caliber mixed up with the AK caliber. So he asked, What gun is it? I said it is a Peppishaw 41 and he said he did not know what it was. So I thought of the quickest picture and I said it was the russian tommy gun. Then he perked up and said, OH the one with the holes on the barrel? Yes (barrel shroud) Oh no, you can;t have that drum here, how many rounds does it hold? I said 71 (but the drum does not fit this gun, it fit a previous model, but not this one.) I said That I had stick mags for it he asked how many rounds do they hold I said about 30 and he said, no cause that is illegal and you can't have that here. Then he told a story about someone losing their 30 round mags/gun/CAR and being arrested and car impounded on the way out at lytle creek because he had a hi cap mag that he was shooting or something like that. I told him that I had the mags before the ban and he asked if I had proof of that and if I did not then it was illegal. Basically he only wanted to allow the 10 round mags for it but I'll be damned if I am gonna ruin my $18.00 mag and make it a freaking 10 rounder. UNLESS of course I can buy a 10 rounder. But still. I was not gonna stand around and argue with the guy but it irritates me that he said those things cause then on the way home my friend was saying that he felt uncomfortable having his high cap mags for his beretta (which he had back in 1996 when that was all they had were high caps) and glock and stuff because he felt like he was breaking the law. I told him that we were fine and the burden of proof is on THEM (LEO) to prove that we obtained any mags illegally. My mags are leftover from a long time ago. I purchased a large amount of mags at a gun show before the mag ban and some mags I do not have any guns for and others I have gone out and bought the gun. Now, there IS an end to my inventory but why should I have to provide a receipt showing that I purchased a gun BEFORE 2000 and I purchased a mag or two BEFORE 2000 when I never held any receipts for that stuff? I thought that I do not have to prove anything because I know I owned them and I already had them and it is up to law enforcement to prove that these are illegal. Yeah I have receipts for my stuff but I would have to dig them out. Are we seriously coming to this? I have an evidence report from RPD that shows a large amount of mags and guns that I had back in 2001 which were returned to me (so they must be legit right?).

But hey what do I know, I am only a gun owner living in CA. Am I wrong here? BTW, the gun is a newer gun because I no longer have access to a real ppsh-41 but I still have the mags from the older one and I am gonna fit the drum so that it fits and shoots properly also but I just do not want to deal with a half hour drive each time I wanna go and fire it.

With that siad, I have a gen 3 glock with high caps also. How is that? I purchased a gen-2 glock a long time ago (1998?) and around 2008 or so I turned it in to the factory because I wanted a rail on it. I had to pass ANOTHER 10 day wait in order to get it back from glock (WTF?) because it had a different serial number on it but at least it had a rail now. I dunno how pistol reg works but it might show now that I own TWO glock-17s. Anyways, Some of my older mags have been "rebuilt" to newer ones so I had one or two gen 4 mags I think but my mag supply for glocks has stayed the same except for my collection of g-21 mags seems to grow, but only cause I can find cheap 10 rounders.

So am I wrong here? I aint gonna go wave anything in their face but I feel that he was spitting out a lil bit of FUD there... They allow AR-15 (with THEIR ammo) and all pistol caliber/rifle caliber rounds so I thought I would try this out. If I had another rifle that shot pistol rounds and I have 2600 of those rounds I would like to burn them off if I can and maybe tune this thing to shoot better.

alex45auto
07-07-2012, 7:12 PM
Who was the manager? Mike or Fred?

stilly
07-07-2012, 7:28 PM
Before I answer that question I DO want to say that he was NOT a jerk about it in any way. He was cool but the information he told me is what I had an issue with and I want to learn a little more because what he said MIGHT have happened at Lytle Creek, but I do not know the whole story and I know how the game of telephone works. I bet Retired can tell me about what happened at Lytle Creek. The mag information bothered me, but I am not going to make a scene or argue with anyone in their store about what they want to allow or not. It is a respect thing, but I will come here and ASK for more info from others.

When he said that I figured that it was best to keep the PPSH to an outdoor range (like the police range) where we will not be bothered by anyone.


WITH that said, I do not know who Fred is, but I am fairly certain that it is NOT Fred. BTW, I hope I have not gotten him into any trouble by posting this. FUD happens everywhere and there is usually a reason or incident for it.

My goal is not to bash him or that range because quite frankly it is well kept, decently managed and for the past 6+ months we have never had any problems with the folks that run that place. I have brought several others there too from time to time and I hope that after today I can still go there and shoot and enjoy it. If that means no ppsh-41 then so be it. I have not shot it in a while anyways but I was just thinking it would be nice to either shoot it or get a handgun that shoots that caliber and shoot it there instead since I have about 2500 rounds for it that are just sitting there.

Quiet
07-07-2012, 8:19 PM
They have the right to refuse service for any reason and you have the right to not use their service.

Have you ever considered joining the West End Gun Club (http://www.wegc.org/wordpress/)?

They allow all CA legal weapons (Title 2 firearms require proof/copy of your tax stamp) and no magazine capacity limits.

killshot44
07-07-2012, 9:21 PM
:fud:

arsilva32
07-07-2012, 9:38 PM
the ppsh-41 is featureless you should be able to use all your preban mags legally . the Peppishaw has the wood stock with no pistol grip right?

alex45auto
07-07-2012, 9:46 PM
There is a possibility that PPsh-41 might fall under "assault weapon" since it's a Russian submachine gun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41. If it was Mike at the range, he was looking out for you.

PEZHEAD265
07-08-2012, 6:17 AM
I go there a lot so this is not a bash thread but I was just looking for a second/third opinion on this.

I had finished shooting and was on my way out and I thought that I would ask the guy at the counter (manager, not the owner) if it was okay to bring my 7.62x25 carbine down. He did not know what that was and said no cause that is a hot round and will go right through and it is steel core and russian ammo etc. Then I said, No, it uses brass cased ammo that is not steel core. It is the same stuff you shoot out of the pistol. I think he got the caliber mixed up with the AK caliber. So he asked, What gun is it? I said it is a Peppishaw 41 and he said he did not know what it was. So I thought of the quickest picture and I said it was the russian tommy gun. Then he perked up and said, OH the one with the holes on the barrel? Yes (barrel shroud) Oh no, you can;t have that drum here, how many rounds does it hold? I said 71 (but the drum does not fit this gun, it fit a previous model, but not this one.) I said That I had stick mags for it he asked how many rounds do they hold I said about 30 and he said, no cause that is illegal and you can't have that here. Then he told a story about someone losing their 30 round mags/gun/CAR and being arrested and car impounded on the way out at lytle creek because he had a hi cap mag that he was shooting or something like that. I told him that I had the mags before the ban and he asked if I had proof of that and if I did not then it was illegal. Basically he only wanted to allow the 10 round mags for it but I'll be damned if I am gonna ruin my $18.00 mag and make it a freaking 10 rounder. UNLESS of course I can buy a 10 rounder. But still. I was not gonna stand around and argue with the guy but it irritates me that he said those things cause then on the way home my friend was saying that he felt uncomfortable having his high cap mags for his beretta (which he had back in 1996 when that was all they had were high caps) and glock and stuff because he felt like he was breaking the law. I told him that we were fine and the burden of proof is on THEM (LEO) to prove that we obtained any mags illegally. My mags are leftover from a long time ago. I purchased a large amount of mags at a gun show before the mag ban and some mags I do not have any guns for and others I have gone out and bought the gun. Now, there IS an end to my inventory but why should I have to provide a receipt showing that I purchased a gun BEFORE 2000 and I purchased a mag or two BEFORE 2000 when I never held any receipts for that stuff? I thought that I do not have to prove anything because I know I owned them and I already had them and it is up to law enforcement to prove that these are illegal. Yeah I have receipts for my stuff but I would have to dig them out. Are we seriously coming to this? I have an evidence report from RPD that shows a large amount of mags and guns that I had back in 2001 which were returned to me (so they must be legit right?).

But hey what do I know, I am only a gun owner living in CA. Am I wrong here? BTW, the gun is a newer gun because I no longer have access to a real ppsh-41 but I still have the mags from the older one and I am gonna fit the drum so that it fits and shoots properly also but I just do not want to deal with a half hour drive each time I wanna go and fire it.

With that siad, I have a gen 3 glock with high caps also. How is that? I purchased a gen-2 glock a long time ago (1998?) and around 2008 or so I turned it in to the factory because I wanted a rail on it. I had to pass ANOTHER 10 day wait in order to get it back from glock (WTF?) because it had a different serial number on it but at least it had a rail now. I dunno how pistol reg works but it might show now that I own TWO glock-17s. Anyways, Some of my older mags have been "rebuilt" to newer ones so I had one or two gen 4 mags I think but my mag supply for glocks has stayed the same except for my collection of g-21 mags seems to grow, but only cause I can find cheap 10 rounders.

So am I wrong here? I aint gonna go wave anything in their face but I feel that he was spitting out a lil bit of FUD there... They allow AR-15 (with THEIR ammo) and all pistol caliber/rifle caliber rounds so I thought I would try this out. If I had another rifle that shot pistol rounds and I have 2600 of those rounds I would like to burn them off if I can and maybe tune this thing to shoot better.

Check your ammo with a magnet.Most of the surplus 7.62x25 may have a brass case but the bullet is steel jacketed or a steel core.The ammo is loaded pretty hot and most likely will tear up back stops.

rogervzv
07-08-2012, 8:33 AM
:fud:

What is "FUD"?

VectorScalar
07-08-2012, 9:11 AM
What is "FUD"?

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

chead
07-08-2012, 10:25 AM
It sounds like he just didn't realize it was featureless?

m03
07-08-2012, 10:42 AM
Check your ammo with a magnet.Most of the surplus 7.62x25 may have a brass case but the bullet is steel jacketed or a steel core.The ammo is loaded pretty hot and most likely will tear up back stops.

That's my understanding as well. IIRC, wasn't the Romanian surplus 7.62x25 notable because it was the only lead-core 7.62x25 that was widely available?

stilly
07-10-2012, 11:09 AM
They have the right to refuse service for any reason and you have the right to not use their service.

Have you ever considered joining the West End Gun Club (http://www.wegc.org/wordpress/)?

They allow all CA legal weapons (Title 2 firearms require proof/copy of your tax stamp) and no magazine capacity limits.

Riverside Magnum Range is about an 8 minute drive for me. West End is about a 40 minute drive. Both ONE WAY drives.

As far as spending money is concerned, Riverside Magnum Range is plenty cheaper than a lot of places and again, there was nothing disrespectful or mean spirited about what was said. It just popped out to me as uninformed and untrue but then again, he has never seen my gun collection and he may have been thinking of something different. I did not think of that because I became fixated on having to have a receipt for all of my mags now or I will go to jail. Which is totally bogus and would not happen. (right?)

When I want to get my .308 out and shoot it then I MIGHT consider the west end gun club unless we decide to drive to the old police range about 25 minutes away and shoot for free. That has actually been the only place where I have shot the peppishaw with no problems. Of course, I have not taken it out much either but maybe when I get it converted to a 9mm I will ask again. OR I guess I could wait until the next bee canyon cleanup...

stilly
07-10-2012, 11:11 AM
There is a possibility that PPsh-41 might fall under "assault weapon" since it's a Russian submachine gun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41. If it was Mike at the range, he was looking out for you.

That could very well be. He just seemed focused on the capacity of the mags. The ppsh is actually a rebuild from TNGW or something back east. It is not authentic since it has a 16" barrel and has been converted to semi auto. It is basically a featureless semi auto rifle with high cap mags. Oh, and a DRUM :)

stilly
07-10-2012, 11:34 AM
the ppsh-41 is featureless you should be able to use all your preban mags legally . the Peppishaw has the wood stock with no pistol grip right?


This is my ppsh-41, there are many like it but this one is MINE. :)

http://stillyvision.com/files/guns/ppsh.jpg

striker777
07-14-2012, 7:23 PM
The ppsh in that caliber that you are attempting to shoot at the range is the same as 7.62x25 or (30Tokerev) and if you own that particular handgun a Romainian TT Tokerev or any Tokerev in that caliber you can shoot it there.

So rifle,pistol in that cailber is fine in semi auto.
Check your Pm's

artoaster
07-14-2012, 8:47 PM
FOR URBAN DEMOCRATS living in the PRK!

dfletcher
07-14-2012, 10:33 PM
Is it possible from only the description that the folks at the gun store were thinking of the PPsh 43 pistol now getting popular in CA? Since the 43 has a pistol grip using the 36 rounders, even fixed, is a "no no" in CA and that seems to have gotten their attention too. I bought one a few months back and have to say pretty much everyone who saw it for the 1st time did the "WTH - is that legal?" routine. Even when I sold the thing I had to do a touch of convincing at a gun store that knows me very well.

Mistaken identity maybe?