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View Full Version : Dilemma between a Nighthawk GRP and Springfield Professional 1911 *Update Post #60*


Riddler
07-03-2012, 6:40 PM
I was actually very lucky enough to shoot both 1911's. Both feel absolutely perfect in my hands. Both look so sexy. I'm having a hard time choosing between the two. My friend is considering selling his GRP to me, while I have purchased a Springfield Professional through a gunshop. I can cancel the transaction that I have put down and just purchase the GRP if I wanted.
I need some input on this since both cost around the same and both are hand fitted. HELP ME!!

redcliff
07-03-2012, 7:03 PM
Both great pistols. I think the Pro will hold its value better though due to the nearly 2 year wait time to obtain a new one.

mat19er8
07-03-2012, 7:11 PM
I would go with the Pro. Better customer service, warranty & resale, IMO.
I have a Talon.

jessegpresley
07-03-2012, 7:13 PM
I own a Nighthawk and a Springfield. I would buy the Pro between the two you're looking at.

ExtremeX
07-03-2012, 7:16 PM
I would probably go with the SA PRO myself if I had to make the decesion.

mleroux21
07-03-2012, 7:33 PM
PRO. The pro will hold its value the best. Who knows if Nighthawk will be here in the next few years.

Press Check
07-03-2012, 7:34 PM
Springfield's FBI Professional. No-brainer.

Cyc Wid It
07-03-2012, 7:39 PM
Get the Pro, especially if they're going to be about the same price. A used GRP for ~ $2600? That seems a bit steep.

Riddler
07-03-2012, 7:43 PM
Thanks for the input. I'll just wait another year for the Pro. :43:

jessegpresley
07-03-2012, 7:47 PM
PRO. The pro will hold its value the best. Who knows if Nighthawk will be here in the next few years.

Nighthawk has a 2 year wait list if you place an order today. They're not going anywhere.

John Browning
07-03-2012, 8:08 PM
The important question is who built the GRP? I have a Nighthawk Talon built by Jeff Phillips (and Ron Phillips) and I found the fit and finish to be as nice as a Wilson Supergrade (which Jeff also used to build). His work cannot be improved on, only comes with a different name like Yost, Jardine, Tibbets, etc.

A Jeff Phillips built NHC will be much nicer than the Springfield Pro (and I don't say that lightly). A GRP built by any other smith will be almost on par, but I'd probably take the Pro in that case.

When you talk about guns of this quality, it comes down to the guy behind the stone. SA Pros are very nice, but guns built by Jeff are nicer, no question.

jcaoloveshine
07-03-2012, 8:48 PM
If it matters, SA Pro has MIM parts, while the GRP does not.

Never shot a Pro, but the GRP I shot was smooth. In that price range you won't be able to tell a difference probably.

MrExel17
07-03-2012, 9:35 PM
+1 for SA Pro!

skyscraper
07-03-2012, 9:42 PM
My daily carry is a pro, excellent gun, the best I own.

They sell for more than MSRP used. That tells you something.

+1 for Pro

barca101
07-04-2012, 7:01 AM
I would say GRP only because I have one. I have the black slide over gun metal gray frame. The fit and finish is great and the trigger pull is smooth. My GRP was built by Kevin Hillhouse, who has since moved to Wilson Combat. What's nice about NHC is they can build the gun the way you want it, but with the SA professional, I'm assuming, would be built by FBI standard leaving no room for upgrades. I believe both will serve you well with a great customer service and a warranty that will follow owners if you decide to sell. The only thing I'm concerned about is SA and WC has been around for many years and NHC only started in the mid 2000. I'm hoping that NHC will be around for many years to come.

bigbob76
07-04-2012, 7:32 AM
I would buy both. If you can afford one you can obviously make more money to buy the other one. Life is short.

watersports500
07-04-2012, 7:35 AM
Go with the pro, because it has a light rail

sprig
07-04-2012, 8:30 AM
I'd go with the Nighthawk. The lightrail is an option too btw. I love mine, sold my pro to buy it. Happy to say mine was made by Jeff Phillips. My favorite pistol by far. Nighthawk brand is not going away.

greybeard
07-04-2012, 8:59 AM
I cannot remember does the Pro have the cheese grater 20 LPI front strap? That would be the main reason, I would not buy it. The Nighthawk warranty is as good as the Springfield.

shipwreck
07-04-2012, 11:04 AM
Another vote on the Pro. I have owned a Springfield Custom Shop Gun before.

Riddler
07-05-2012, 9:44 AM
Do you guys think 3,688$ for the SA Pro Railed version is a good deal?

greybeard
07-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Do you guys think 3,688$ for the SA Pro Railed version is a good deal?
MSR is 3114, but I would check gunbroker and see what they are going for.

skyscraper
07-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Do you guys think 3,688$ for the SA Pro Railed version is a good deal?

MSRP is $2647, despite what some websites claim. So no, that is not a good price. Expect to pay up to 3k for a NIB one though, as that is what the current market is.

Riddler
07-05-2012, 10:25 AM
Ah nice. Thanks for the heads up

skyscraper
07-05-2012, 10:29 AM
Ah nice. Thanks for the heads up

If you go to 1911addicts forum, in the 2nd page of the classified forum there's a guy selling one there for a little over 3k which isn't bad considering you will skip tax on it. It's nib railed.

Riddler
07-05-2012, 10:30 AM
If you go to 1911addicts forum, in the 2nd page of the classified forum there's a guy selling one there for a little over 3k which isn't bad considering you will skip tax on it. It's nib railed.

Thanks man, ill check that out

kpblade
07-05-2012, 10:59 AM
If you go to 1911addicts forum, in the 2nd page of the classified forum there's a guy selling one there for a little over 3k which isn't bad considering you will skip tax on it. It's nib railed.

Unless its a PPT, doesn't FFL transfers still require you to pay tax.

skyscraper
07-05-2012, 11:22 AM
Unless its a PPT, doesn't FFL transfers still require you to pay tax.

No tax since it a sale between two individuals and it's not a new gun.

dc2integra
07-05-2012, 3:04 PM
I'd go for the Springfield they make some of the best 1911 s out there.

Apec
07-05-2012, 3:07 PM
No tax since it a sale between two individuals and it's not a new gun.

I wish that was still the case:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=534146

skyscraper
07-05-2012, 4:29 PM
Good to know. Thanks

Press Check
07-05-2012, 5:07 PM
While I'm obviously partial to Springfield, once you hit the price-point of the aforementioned pistols, you're essentially comparing apples to apples. Meaning, one $2,800 1911 isn't going to outshoot, outperform or outshine another $2,800 1911. The absolute truth is, most would be extremely hard-pressed to outshoot a production pistol, let alone a high-end custom that can manage 3" inch groups at 50 yards, although when it comes to hobbies in general, that's hardly the point.

NeoGeo630
07-05-2012, 5:39 PM
Wow, I wish I had your dilemma! I'd definitely go Springfield Pro on this one. I'd agree with what Press Check said above. The Pro will hold much more value over the long run.

Riddler
07-05-2012, 5:58 PM
Wow, I wish I had your dilemma! I'd definitely go Springfield Pro on this one. I'd agree with what Press Check said above. The Pro will hold much more value over the long run.

Yeh I've been reading some reviews about how hard it is to get a hold of one since their is a 1-2 year wait.... Love the grips it comes with by the way. :43:

Press Check
07-05-2012, 6:24 PM
The Professional routinely surfaces on GB. The good thing is, most are unfired. The weird thing is, I don't understand how anyone could own one and not shoot it. I just couldn't imagine paying $2,800 for a pistol and storing it away in a safe.

There was a DEA serialized Professional on GB that sold for $6,000 last week, if I'm not mistaken.

skyscraper
07-05-2012, 6:45 PM
Sold for 9,000. I spoke to the owner because I know him from another forum. That gun is a collectors piece and one of less than 70 DEA serial numbers

Riddler
07-05-2012, 7:16 PM
I found this while browsing the 1911 forum. I got all tingly inside when I was reading this.

Originally Posted by HELLFIREman06
"Wolfgang" posted this on 06/25/02 -

The TRP is a factory pistol which has been upgraded with a few features to make it look like the full custom Professional model (FBI SWAT pistol).
The Professional pistol is a full custom pistol which begins with a national match frame which has the oversized slide rails, cut into the frame in our Geneseo machine shop. It uses all custom parts, including the Springfield Custom tool steel hammer & sear, Nowlin barrel & bushing, S&A mag well, Wilson ambi thumb safety, Novak low mount rear sight, dovetail front sight, match skeletonized trigger, standard guide rod system, and 6 specially tuned Metalform 7 round magazines. These pistols are hand assembled by custom gunsmiths in our Geneseo custom shop, under the supervision of master gunsmith David Williams. The Professional models meet or exceed all specifications of the FBI SWAT contract, including the accuracy requirement of 1.5" or better at 25 yards with Remington Golden Saber ammunition. The civilian pistols and the FBI pistols are built at the same time, with the gunsmiths never knowing whether a civilian or FBI agent will be using the pistol. These pistols are built approx. every 45 days, with the FBI order being filled first and civilian orders getting all of the remaining from the production run. These pistols do not have front cocking serrations or full length guide rods because the FBI chose not to have these features on their pistols. (Front cocking serrations catch on clothing and full length guide rods require additional tools for disassembly.) These pistols are finished with the Black T finish done by Walter Birdsong in MS.

The TRP pistol is a factory pistol which has been upgraded with more hand fitting than a standard factory pistol, as well as a 2 piece mag well, night sights, and better tuning internally. It has a quoted accuracy of 2.5" or better at 25 yards with match ammunition. It has the front cocking serrations and full length guide rod, just like the other factory "loaded" models. These pistols are finished with Springfield's Armory Kote finish, which is a painted on, baked on finish similar to the Black T finish.


Deb, Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Inc.
420 West Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
(800) 680-6866
customshop@springfield-armory.com


Hope this helps.

ap3572001
07-05-2012, 8:11 PM
I own a 1996 SA Custon PC9404. One of the very best 1911's I ever owned . I would get the PRO.

redcliff
07-06-2012, 2:20 AM
The Professional routinely surfaces on GB. The good thing is, most are unfired. The weird thing is, I don't understand how anyone could own one and not shoot it. I just couldn't imagine paying $2,800 for a pistol and storing it away in a safe.


Seriously. I did not have the patience to wait 1-2 years for my Pro, I posted on here I was looking for one and got leads on a NIB one sitting on a dealers shelf less than 3 hours drive from me which I was able to buy for $2650 +fees (thanks again Calgunners). It was a PC9111LR which is what I wanted as none of my other 1911's have a rail (I do notice the felt recoil reduction from the extra weight). And I have seen quite a few come up for sale slightly used on the for sale forum here, and new and used ones on GB and Auctionarms. I see n.i.b. sell for 2900-3k; I wouldnt pay more than that.

I would like to pick up a clean non-railed Pro sometime, so I'm always looking, preferably with the Nowlin barrel to compare to my non-Nowlin Pro (thats a hint if anyone in far Norcal is considerring selling). According to people with both there is no difference in accuracy (actually precision, as CSACannoneer reminds us), and my Pro with Springfields NM barrel is a frickin laser but I'd like to do my own comparison. My Pro had the tightest lock-up of any 1911 I've owned or shot in the last 38 years, and that definitely contributes to its precision. Remember, the 1.5" 10-shot group precision requirement at 25 yards for 3 consecutive groups from a Ransom Rest is with a round that Bill Wilson claimed was not even capable of that level of precision (Golden Sabre), they shoot even better with the right loads.

My Pro has been modified with a 3.0 lb trigger pull (its a range gun) short trigger and thin grips, which work best for me. Either it, or my full-custom pre 80 series Combat Commander always go to the range with me.

skyscraper
07-06-2012, 7:49 AM
Red cliff, I'm with you on that one. I ordered one in January, and after reading countless threads about it on 1911 forum, I had to have one. Got one here from a fellow calgunner who was nice enough to sell me one nib(he has several of them). And it's been my carry piece ever since. I'm also going to buy the one I have on order, but due to recent delays it looks like the wait is pushed well into the 2 year mark, maybe even longer.

NeoGeo630
07-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Sold for 9,000. I spoke to the owner because I know him from another forum. That gun is a collectors piece and one of less than 70 DEA serial numbers

Good lord! Sometimes I envy collectors because they get their hands on rare pieces that I will probably never lay hands on in my lifetime. But I'd say most of the time I do not envy them because they'll probably never get to shoot 75% of what they own!

dan12580
07-06-2012, 4:58 PM
1911 guys let me get this straight- kimbers are crap because of the price point and still mim parts but springfield pros are the holy grail even though they have mim parts? I kid. Iam a huge springfield fan. I dont have a pro but a couple trps and i have to say that if thats what you get out of their middle of the road then the pro may be one of the best pistols out there. Apples to apples with the nighthawk though. Between the two once you get over the price id say get the one you can get your hands on first. Neither will disappoint.

SoCal Gunner
07-07-2012, 2:10 PM
The important question is who built the GRP? I have a Nighthawk Talon built by Jeff Phillips (and Ron Phillips) and I found the fit and finish to be as nice as a Wilson Supergrade (which Jeff also used to build). His work cannot be improved on, only comes with a different name like Yost, Jardine, Tibbets, etc.

A Jeff Phillips built NHC will be much nicer than the Springfield Pro (and I don't say that lightly). A GRP built by any other smith will be almost on par, but I'd probably take the Pro in that case.

When you talk about guns of this quality, it comes down to the guy behind the stone. SA Pros are very nice, but guns built by Jeff are nicer, no question.


When you're shopping for a NightHawk, how do you know who built it? Is it inside on the build sheet or target? Also, I thought those guys only built the custom shop NightHawks, not the GRPs.

greybeard
07-07-2012, 4:54 PM
When you're shopping for a NightHawk, how do you know who built it? Is it inside on the build sheet or target? Also, I thought those guys only built the custom shop NightHawks, not the GRPs.
It is on the target. I do not see their names on my T3 target, too lazy to find my Talon target.

John Browning
07-07-2012, 7:58 PM
When you're shopping for a NightHawk, how do you know who built it? Is it inside on the build sheet or target? Also, I thought those guys only built the custom shop NightHawks, not the GRPs.

There is a test target that will have the names of all who worked on it. My Talon was worked on by Ron Phillips and Jeff Phillips.

I believe that the GRP is worked on by the same folks who build everything else. The Phillips have come and gone and come and gone, but with how long these things sit on the shelves there are still NIB Nighthawks of many flavors built by them out there I'm sure.

hoss_hk
07-08-2012, 8:58 PM
The GRPs are custom shop guns, built by the same smiths

Harley
07-08-2012, 9:23 PM
Love my Pro Rail, waited 17 months for it. Worth every penny!!

HK416
07-08-2012, 9:34 PM
SA Pro

bigbob76
07-08-2012, 11:51 PM
I would love to have a SA Pro. I see the value and versatility of having a rail on a fighting pistol. But I can't help it, I think a rail makes an expensive pistol too ugly for me. On a 1911 for less than $1,000 I could live with a rail. I grew up poor walking to school in the snow uphill both ways and $3,000 is a lot of money to me.:D I want it to be elegantly simple and easy on the eyes for that much money.

Colt-45
07-09-2012, 12:05 AM
Nighthawk over SA without a doubt.

greybeard
07-09-2012, 5:58 AM
I own two Nighthawks and no SA, but I would go with the PRO, since it is rare

t0kie
07-09-2012, 8:18 AM
I have the non railed one & love it. Would like to get the railed version someday.

Press Check
07-10-2012, 9:00 AM
Sold for 9,000. I spoke to the owner because I know him from another forum. That gun is a collectors piece and one of less than 70 DEA serial numbers

Another DEA Professional surfaced in Texas, and is currently listed for $9,000.

skyscraper
07-10-2012, 9:06 AM
Another DEA Professional surfaced in Texas, and is currently listed for $9,000.

I know, I posted that thread over at 1911 forum:D

This one is brand new and I light rail. The guy should put it on gunbroker

Press Check
07-10-2012, 11:46 AM
Some think the price is absurd, but $9,000 to blow, that pistol would be mine.

skyscraper
07-10-2012, 11:47 AM
Some think the price is absurd, but $9,000 to blow, that pistol would be mine.

Dude, same here. If they ever discontinue the Pro line, that gun will be worth a heck of a lot more than 9k.

NeoGeo630
07-11-2012, 8:00 PM
Some think the price is absurd, but $9,000 to blow, that pistol would be mine.

Ditto. If only i HAD $9000 to blow!

Riddler
07-11-2012, 8:19 PM
Some guy is selling one right now. DEA

http://texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=218080

Damiiaaannn
07-11-2012, 8:49 PM
Pro

Riddler
02-14-2013, 6:16 PM
:cool:

Spawn
02-14-2013, 6:21 PM
Beautiful. Just beautiful. I'd love to get a range report soon as well

gregshin
02-14-2013, 7:23 PM
Had both 1911's I'd choose the nighthawk.

bigbob76
02-14-2013, 7:48 PM
Life is short, I'm happy for you!

Q619
02-14-2013, 7:51 PM
Nice gun bro

cprieto
02-14-2013, 7:54 PM
Cant go wrong with either one, Ive owned both and I like the Pro slightly more, now... if we were talking NH Predator...

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