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View Full Version : Need help welding on picatinny rail


KracknCorn
02-28-2012, 6:20 PM
I'm trying put on a section of picatinny rail on my saiga 12. My plan was to tap the tube and just screw it on... but... i fudged it up and broke my tap in the hole I drilled. So my only option now is to weld it on. Can anyone in socal near Cerritos help me out welding this thing on? I'll bring a 6 pack of delicious beer =).

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/AznDenX/20120228_185138.jpg

yari
02-28-2012, 6:54 PM
What's the rail made of? Are you welding to fill the hole or to the Gun?

KracknCorn
02-28-2012, 6:57 PM
Welding it on the gun. The rail doesn't stick to a magnet, so I'm assuming it's made of aluminum.

tujungatoes
02-28-2012, 7:00 PM
Don't give up just yet. Is it drilled all the way through, or is it a blind hole? You might be able to hit the broken piece with a hard punch and break it out.

yari
02-28-2012, 7:03 PM
Unless what your welding it to is alum. as well it can't be done. You can weld the holes and retry though. Take the rail to any shop that welds alum. they can fill the holes. Maybe a muffler shop will do it cheap.

NotEnoughGuns
02-28-2012, 7:04 PM
you wont be welding aluminum to steel. You need to get the tap out.

KracknCorn
02-28-2012, 7:11 PM
Damn... I guess I'll try to get the tap out or just reposition the hole. Just won't have two anchor points if I do it that way. Thanks guys.

gozuki
02-29-2012, 12:42 PM
A good machinist can get the busted tap out. You are too far south for me to help though...

a308garand
02-29-2012, 12:57 PM
Damn... I guess I'll try to get the tap out or just reposition the hole. Just won't have two anchor points if I do it that way. Thanks guys.
Use a steel punch that is slightly smaller than the tap. Using a hammer, repeatedly smack the punch against the tap until it breaks. the tap is usually very hard, but easily broken. Remember to wear eye protection.

Devcon steel bed from Brownells is very good at bonding stuff together. If your screw holes are not strong enough by themselves, a bit of steel bed added to the flat surfaces to bond them together will make it snug. Although it will be hard to remove at a later date.

Sent you an IM. :)

KracknCorn
02-29-2012, 5:38 PM
Little update. Couldn't pound that sucker out... soooo... I tried again... broke another tap in a different position on the saiga. Finally just said screw it, I'm just going to get a chaos extended quad rail.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/AznDenX/20120229_183148.jpg

Since I still had a piece of picatinny rail, I just decided to put it on my mosin. Drilled and taped two holes. Had to use a nut and screw to hold down the rail, thus the two blobs of epoxy at the back. Still waiting for the epoxy to dry a little more before I razor off the excess.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/AznDenX/20120229_182343.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/AznDenX/20120229_182315.jpg

milotrain
02-29-2012, 6:16 PM
So just for future reference regarding tapping things.

1. Use tapping fluid or 10w-30 at least
2. Use a tool to keep the tap totally straight and rigid. Many taps can be guided by pins in the chuck of a drillpress. Obviously keep the drill press off.
http://www.davidreedsmith.com/Articles/WoodenFaceplate/Figure7TapDP.jpg
3. You reverse the tap every 1/4 turn to break the chips.
4. A good quality tap (OSG, Brubreaker, or any tap ordered from Mcmaster Carr) is always worth the extra money as they are far more forgiving of poor usage, and their cost encourages you to use them carefully.

joelukehart
03-03-2012, 12:36 AM
You should leave the gunsmithing to someone who knows what they are doing. That epoxy atrocity is gonna pop off after 2 or 3 rounts. I'm not trying to be an A-hole but If you mickey mouse something on a firearm you could be seriously injured.

Noonanda
03-04-2012, 6:59 AM
You also did that to a M-38 which is "uncommon" now days, you cant find em in any stores

zfields
03-04-2012, 6:56 PM
Why god why!

KracknCorn
03-04-2012, 8:33 PM
Meh... it's my gun. I honestly don't care about rarity of items, I buy to use, not to collect. I didn't tamper with anything that destroys integrity or would make a gun explode. The mount is screwed in and glued on with industrial strength epoxy, stuff they use on airplanes... sooo I think it'll be okay.

Barabas
03-05-2012, 7:56 AM
It's generally a good idea to practice a technique you aren't familiar with on a practice piece before modifying something that has actual value until you get a result that you can be happy with. You could have bought a dozen tap/die setups, a drill press, a bunch of black iron pipe and steel picatinny rails to practice your skills on, had you sold the m38 to fund your experiments in creative gunsmithing. You'd be a gun down, but you would have a nice result on your shotgun and wouldn't have ruined the resale value of TWO firearms.

But you're right it's your gun, for now. Someone is going to get a good deal someday on that m38. Hopefully they can do a good job restoring the damage.

KracknCorn
03-05-2012, 12:11 PM
It's generally a good idea to practice a technique you aren't familiar with on a practice piece before modifying something that has actual value until you get a result that you can be happy with. You could have bought a dozen tap/die setups, a drill press, a bunch of black iron pipe and steel picatinny rails to practice your skills on, had you sold the m38 to fund your experiments in creative gunsmithing. You'd be a gun down, but you would have a nice result on your shotgun and wouldn't have ruined the resale value of TWO firearms.

But you're right it's your gun, for now. Someone is going to get a good deal someday on that m38. Hopefully they can do a good job restoring the damage.

I've drilled and tapped before. I did it to my m38 and many other items. I just goofed and broke cheap taps in the saiga 12 gas tube, not the most pivotal part. If I wanted to, I'll just sand it down and paint it, it'll look ten times better.

...and why does everyone care about resell value so much. I enjoy how my m38 is now and that's what's important. If I cared about selling it... I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

Barabas
03-05-2012, 12:22 PM
I care about resale value because it is an indicator of how well I've maintained my firearms. It's no different than worrying about the resale value of a vehicle. I don't use up machines, I keep them in good working order so they can serve my purposes and, hopefully, the purposes of those who live beyond my years. Someone has to take care of their stuff so someone else can make a killing on it in the future. Everything in your possession today has the potential to be a valuable antique in the future.

Although, on second thought, if you wreck your stuff today, my stuff will be worth more tomorrow. Go ahead, wreck your junk! :p

KracknCorn
03-05-2012, 12:49 PM
That's the difference between you and me, I don't care about "stuff" as much as you. I look at things in terms of worth to me... not resell value. I'm not a collector of rare things, nor do I care to baby things. When I'm on my death bed, I won't give two craps about how nice my guns are, but how much I enjoyed them. I have many other things that will go up in value later, so do I care about the values of these rifles, no... do I like them a lot, yes.

Barabas
03-05-2012, 2:22 PM
Hey, that's great! Different strokes for different folks, I get it. Be sure to give us a range report when you mount optics up on that thing.

beerman
03-05-2012, 2:35 PM
I WOULDN'T GIVE UP. tHERE ARE OUTFITS HERE IN SOCAL THAT WILL edm OUT BROKEN TAPS. AFTER REMOVAL, RE-DRILL YOUR HOLE APPROX.010 OVER THE RECCOMENED TAP DRIL SIZE. iT WILL TAP EASIER...(sorry for yelling,didnt se my caplock was on)

J.S.Riesch
03-06-2012, 4:47 PM
Get one of this and just weld it in place.

http://www.gunsnorthwest.com/8-steel-picatinny-rail-rail8.htm?categoryId=4 :cool:

bill_k_lopez
03-06-2012, 5:28 PM
Meh... it's my gun. I honestly don't care about rarity of items, I buy to use, not to collect. I didn't tamper with anything that destroys integrity or would make a gun explode. The mount is screwed in and glued on with industrial strength epoxy, stuff they use on airplanes... sooo I think it'll be okay.

Well, it's a rare item now that you're done with it.

SJgunguy24
03-07-2012, 8:38 AM
Don't use epoxy. Get yourself some steel rail from Matt (Turbothis). I've been doing this to AK's for a couple of years.

This Saiga I actually removed the rear sight base and TIG welded the rail in from the bottom.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/1240.jpg

I milled the rear site and the top of the tube flat. Did the same to the rail and did a little fillet weld to attach it. I get 1/3 a co witness using a lo profile JP type sight.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/SJgunguy24/RussianBluebackend.jpg